Talk:Kirata

The article Kiratas covers the same topic. 212.27.237.154 09:01, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Restored
The article has been restored because the Kirata group encompasses much more than the ethnic groups from Nepal. Chaipau 21:01, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Then edit Kirant to give a more complete view. There is also the article Kirata Kingdom.  We certainly don't need three articles.  This one, currently, repeats verbatim content that is at Kirant.  Wareh 22:26, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Kirant is longer, but that does not mean it is more complete. Kirant is a subgroup of Kirata, and therefore can never be "more complete".  Kirata should stand restored.  Chaipau 13:26, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

WP:INDIA Banner/Tripura Addition
Note: WP India Project Banner with Tripura workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under Category:Tripura or its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate, please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article -- Amartyabag   TALK2ME  11:07, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the subcategory addition is inappropriate as I don not see any strong connection of Tripura with Kirat. Dhilung (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:02, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
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Merge tag

 * Support - This does look like a WP:FORK. However this article is 2006, the other is 2004, the merge should probably go the other way In ictu oculi (talk) 12:10, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose - The other article seems to about a particular extant tribe. This article is about a class of people referred to as Kirata in old Sanskrit texts. Maybe it needs a disambiguation page.  Chaipau (talk)
 * Support - I support the merge of Kirata in to Kirat. Kirat, and Kirata are simply the same entity with different romanized spellings of the word (किरात) /kirɑːt/. The argument that Kirata encompasses beyond Kirat is simply incorrect. The content in this article, which is purely based only on the reference to mythology, should probably be merged into 'Historical mention' or 'Etymology' section of Kirat. Kirat represents more than 30 different languages (see), independent religion (see Religion in Nepal), historic kingdoms (see History of Nepal and Kirat Kingdom ), etc. Dhilung (talk) 19:04, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The assertion that there are no Kirata's except those named Kirat in Nepal is not true. This is made clear by Suniti Kumar Chatterjee in his book. "Kirata Jana Kriti: The Indo-Mongoloids; Their Contribution to the History and Culture of India".  Chatterjee identifies Indo-Mongoloids as Kiratas, as understood in the Sanskrit literature. There is still a tradition of calling Indo-Mongoloids of Northeast India as Kirata, and they have no ethnic relationship with the modern Kirats of Nepal.  Chaipau (talk) 23:56, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Kirat is not just the present day ethnic groups in Nepal. It is the indigenous-ethnic groups of Himalayas (Nepal, India, and Burma) living there since thousands of years. I'd kindly request to refer to the introduction section. The claim that "they[Indo-Mongoloids of Northeast India] have no ethnic relationship with the modern Kirats of Nepal" is simply not true [The Kirat Khambu Rais of Sikkim and Eastern Himalayas by Shiva Kumar Rai]. There is a large Kirat community in Northeast India, which shares Kirat culture and languages. In fact, the current and previous chief ministers of Sikkim, Sanchaman Limboo and Pawan Kumar Chamling, are Kirats. I strongly support the merge. Dhilung (talk) 19:14, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Sikkim, contiguous with Nepal, is not traditionally Northeast India. The Seven Sister States have many Kirata groups that have no relationship with the ethnic groups in Nepal.  The Kachari group of peoples from Assam, who are considered Kirata, have no relationship with the Kirata from Nepal.  Chaipau (talk) 22:19, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * A quick search on the web yielded this---"Some of the ancient most Kiratas of northeast India popularly known as Nagas (Negrito), Khasi-Jaintia (Austro-Asiatic), Garos, Kacharis, Chutias, Hill-Tipperahs (Bodo group), Akas and Mishimis (north Assam group), all have different racial background. All of them are of mixed origins.  Some of the Nagas are believed to have come from Africa.  A vast majority of them are believed to have come from Southeast Asia.  Some of them were also living originally in the plains and hills of Assam"---G P Singh (2008) "Researches into the History and Civilization of the Kiratas".  These Kirata groups from Northeast India have no connection with the Kirat community from Nepal.  The Khasi-Jaintia group settled the region before any Tibeto-Burman groups came to the region.  The claim above, that the Kirata groups in northeast India share Kirat culture and languages makes no sense, especially when some of the Kirata languages belong to different language families.  Chaipau (talk) 23:02, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Inclusion of other groups (such as Negrito of African descent) in the indigenous Kirat identity is a controversial gross generalization.  Dhilung (talk) 07:15, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
 * That may be, but that is the standard use. You cannot pick and choose according to your agenda.  And why do you say "indigenous"?  Everyone is a settler---why do you think that the negrito people were not early settlers?  And what about Khasi-Jaintia, who speak Austro-Asiatic languages?  They are considered the first settlers in Northeast India who settled before the Tibeto-Burman speakers. Chaipau (talk) 12:51, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
Apropos, I think Kirata Kingdom and Kirata are better merge candidates. Even so, I have reservations on "Kirata kingdom", because it supposes a single political formation, whereas there could be many Kirata kingdoms. Furthermore, "kirata" is often used as an ethnic group (e.g, Bhagadatta had an army of Kirata and Cinas), and not as a political formation. So I am not sure how even "Kirata kingdoms" would be appropriate. Chaipau (talk) 10:40, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * As long as these articles are clearly delineated in the Kirat (disambiguation) and ledes/hatnotes there isn't a problem in keeping separate articles. The problem now is partly articles not knowing what they are. The name "Kirata" appears to fail WP:PRECISION, maybe Kirata (Mahabharata) would be a better title? In terms of the Kirat people has there never been a Kirat kingdom? In ictu oculi (talk) 04:14, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

The Mundhum covers many aspects of the Kirat culture, customs and traditions that existed before Vedic civilisation in South Asia?
Really? how can you prove your traditions are older then the peroid of vedic civilisation when your kirat history it's self feeds from vedic hindu scriptures to gain it's very NAME,LOCATION,DESCRIPTION,KINGS?

Gopalas and Abhiras inhabiting the Kathmandu valley before kirats came and were subsequently supplanted by Kirata tribes, Many historians find it hard to trace these other tribes back in history due to traditional vedic cremation.

According to Baburam Acharya, they came to Nepal in 700 B.C. and ruled over it. There were 29 kings of this dynasty who ruled over Nepal for about 1225 years. According to the chronicle (Bamsavali) of Kirkpatrick, Kiratas ruled over Nepal from about 900 B.C. to 300 A.D. On the basis of the Puranas and other ancient religious texts, it is presumed that the Kiratas ruled in Nepal AFTER the Gopal and Mahipal.

In short the vedic text are stating that kirats are immagrants from cina tribes who came into nepal via the fall of Gopal and Mahipal kingdoms. China today does the same thing by grabbing land and claiming it as their own.82.38.160.153 (talk) 07:35, 31 January 2014 (UTC)me