Talk:Know thyself

Imhotep
There's a claim I've found in numerous sources that "know thyself" was originally spoken by the Egyptian high priest Imhotep. This appears to be completely false, but in order to forestall future controversy, I may as well share the fruits of my research, such as they are.Here are two examples of this claim in apparently reputable journals: I also found the following in Asante 1990: "Know thyself," the admonition written on the temple at Karnak, reverberated deep in the heart of the ancient Egyptian orator.Following up the suggestion that this was written on a specific temple led me to this academia.edu article, provenance unknown, which says on p. 12: Schwaller de Lubicz ... found inscribed on the Temple at Luxor the precept, "Man know thyself, for to know thyself is to know the Universe," an idea that the Greek philosopher Socrates obviously copied.Schwaller de Lubicz was, according to Wikipedia, "a French Egyptologist and mystic who popularized the pseudoarchaeological idea of sacred geometry in ancient Egypt". In his book The Temple in Man, he describes the Temple of Luxor as an architectural representation of the human form, and says: "Man, know thyself and thou wilt know the Universe and the Gods" echoes Delphi.It does not appear, then, that de Lubicz claimed to find these words written at Luxor, only that the temple embodied the spirit of the maxim. This is the earliest source I can find that links "know thyself" with Egypt, so I can only suppose that this part of the book was misunderstood or deliberately embroidered by later authors. (de Lubicz's wife may have contributed to this by also linking the phrase with Egypt in her own writings.) So I think that's mystery solved, but if anybody knows of an earlier source, I'd be interested to see it. Sojourner in the earth (talk) 21:37, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Smith 2022: The first of the three Delphic maxims in Greek society is "know thyself." Often ascribed to Socrates, it was actually coined by Imhotep, the Egyptian renaissance philosopher.
 * Nantambu 1996: The truth is that the ancient Nile Valley Egyptians wrote those words on the outside of temples and addressed these words to the neophytes. Socrates copied these words from the Egyptian Temples.

In other cultures
It's to be expected that several cultures would independently come up with some equivalent phrase to "know yourself", and I don't believe these should be included in the article unless they're explicitly linked to the Delphic maxim. However, in the course of writing this article I came across a couple of tidbits which I'll just leave here for future reference:
 * Carter G. Woodson gives the following as an African proverb: Know thyself better than he who speaks of thee. Not to know is bad, not to wish to know is worse.
 * Sun Tzu's Art of War contains the phrase One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be endangered in a hundred engagements. Derek Yuen argues that this is not referring to the collection of military intelligence, but has a psychological application, as per the gloss in Questions and Replies between Tang Taizong and Li Weigong: Attacking their minds is what is referred to as "knowing them." Preserving one's ch'i is what is meant by "knowing yourself."

Sojourner in the earth (talk) 22:00, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Removed anti-Wagner propaganda
Original article entry:

"Richard Wagner gave the maxim a nationalistic turn in an anti-Semitic essay titled 'Know Thyself' (Erkenne dich Selbst, 1881), in which he argued that the German people should attempt to gain a better understanding of their heritage in order to more effectively demonstrate their superiority over the Jews."

This is a complete distortion of Wagner's essay, who later in life renounced politics and was a humanist, and in this very essay expresses doubt that a "German race" even exists. This falsehood is based on the biased first translations of Wagner's writings into English by William Ashton Ellis in 1905. Ellis' translations insert a nationalist and racialist perspective quite removed from Wagner's thought at the time. An accurate translation of the conclusion to Wagner's essay makes the humanist intent of the work clear:

"Wir, die wir zu keiner aller jener Parteien gehören, sondern unser Heil einzig in einem Erwachen des Menschen zu seiner einfach-heiligen Würde suchen, müssen, von diesen Parteien als Unnütze ausgeschlossen, zwar sympathisch selbst davon beängstigt, den Spasmen des Träumenden doch eben nur zuschauen, da all unser Kufen von ihm nicht gehört werden kann. So sparen, pfiegen und stärken wir den& unsere besten Eträfte, um dem nothwendig endlich doch von sich selbst Erwachenden eine edle Labe bieten zu können. Nur aber, wann der Dämon, der jene Käsenden im Wahnsinne des Parteikampfes um sich erhält, kein Wo und Wann zu seiner Bergung unter uns mehr aufzufinden vermag, wird es auch — keinen Juden mehr geben."

"We, who belong to none of those [political] parties but seek our salvation solely in the awakening of humans to their simple, sacred dignity, must, excluded by these parties as useless and albeit sympathetically frightened by it, merely watch the spasms of the dreaming since all our appeals cannot be heard by him. Thus, we save, nurture, and strengthen our best forces, to be able to offer noble sustenance to the one who must inevitably awaken on his own. However, only when the demon, who keeps those fighting in the madness of the party struggle, can no longer find a time and place for his refuge among us, will there also — be no more Jews."

Wagner indicates that the true resolution to societal discord and the "Jewish question" lies not in the hands of any political party or faction (which he derides in the essay as wahnvoll... "full of delusions"), but in a collective spiritual awakening to a higher sense of human dignity and purpose. This awakening is depicted as the only way to dispel the "demon of madness" that fuels partisan strife and perpetuates division. Once society is transformed, can this demon find no place or time to exist among people. In such a society, there will "be no more Jews", symbolizing the end of division and conflict based on such superficial identities... humanity recognizing itself as one.

That Wagner wanted nothing to do with the racialist anti-Semitic movements at the time which would become the foundation of Nazism is confirmed by his private letters:

From the modern anti-Semitic movement I stand completely distant. In an upcoming issue of the Bayreuth Blätter there will appear an article ['Know Thyself'] by me that ardently announces that it will actually be impossible for me to associate myself with that movement. https://archive.org/details/selectedletterso0000unse_w4l9/page/906/mode/2up

I have updated the article to represent Wagner's actual thought in the essay:

"Richard Wagner wrote an essay 'Know Thyself' (Erkenne dich Selbst, 1881), urging the 'awakening of humans to their simple, sacred dignity', departing with partisan political battles and identity conflicts, and aiming for a universal recognition of shared human dignity."

Wonder29 (talk) 21:23, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

gnothi seauton
it's spelled incorrectly at the beginning of the article. seauton should have an epsilon and hence the transliteration should have an 'e'. 2A00:23EE:2010:5A18:913C:C944:FB9A:1A5 (talk) 20:28, 28 June 2024 (UTC)