Talk:Kristen Pfaff

Birth Name
The entry claims Kristen was born with the surname 'Pfaff' but that her mother later divorced her (un-named) father and married a man named 'Pfaff' who gave her his surname (???!!!). There are clearly some factual problems here!

Parco BeansMad302 (talk) 16:06, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Conspiracy Theory
Deleted the "Conspiracy Theory" section on this page. It was 1. Extremely Biased, 2. Extremely stupid 3. Not sourced, and 4. Ignorant. I hope it does not appear again.

I've edited it back in. The conspiracy theories themselves may be stupid, but they're out there, and thus warrant inclusion just as much as the conspiracy theories on Cobain's death warrant inclusion on his page, or the conspiracy theories surrounding JFK's assassination on JFK's page, or anything else. As there's no actual assertions in there other than noting what OTHERS allege (and it makes it clear that is the case) I don't see how it's potentially libellous. Tbh I think you're bringing rather a little too much POV - that you like Courtney due to being a Hole fan and find it distasteful that some people think such things. That's not exactly NPOV editing, is it now. Charlycrash (talk) 18:54, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

New content
I've added some stuff to the Musical Career section, given a bit of info about Janitor Joe's releases, the Minneapolis scene, and Kristen's role in JJ's sound. I'll set up a rudimentary JJ page so the tree is better... I have a couple of questions, though, about the spring 1994 tour K played with JJ: Did she replace Wayne Davis (her replacement in JJ) or join as a second live bassist? Did she have any input into Lucky, the 1994 album? Anyone?

Kristen's work on LTT deserves discussion, too, since Love/Erlandson/Pfaff/Schemel is so often regarded as the classic lineup of Hole. I'll check the Hole discography for writing credits and add some reviews that focus on Kristen. Everett True's book, Live through this - American Rock in the 90's, talks about her playing style and a couple of reviews really champion her.

I've also added a bit of context to her decision to move to Seattle. Seattle Weekly.com is down, so I can't cite right now, but the quote from her father is reproduced and cited in Courtney Love: Queen of Noise, by Melissa Rossi.

White hotel 10:00, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

The Janitor Joe page is now up. Should I link it to the Hole tree?

I've separated her musical career section into Janitor Joe and Hole, and changed the 'Drugs and death' section to 'Seattle and after', adding some quotes from Spin and info from Rolling Stone. I will continue to expand the Hole section - there's lots of stuff available about the recording of LTT and its impact.

White hotel 15:36, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Headers
'Drugs and death' is a dreadful header title. Is this page chronological or thematic? Maybe we should have a 'musical career' section and a 'biographical info' section. Very little substantiable info is available about Kristen until very late in her life. I think we have to be careful not to let a biographical approach overshadow her career.

White hotel 12:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Kristen Conspiracy Theory
This is a terrible article that addresses little about the subject and instead focuses on spreading hysterical Courtney Love conspiracies. This is one of the pitfalls of having random people create encyclopedia passages. This page needs to be changed.

The quotes here are from the book "Who Killed Kurt Cobain?" published in 1998 so I don't see how re-using quotes could be considered libelous, and as for the rest of the article, I didn't read anything that wasn't the truth.

Just because it comes from a book doesn't make it accurate. And Wiki, why don't you edit then since no one else will.

I agree I couldn't help but think this was so obviously manipulative reading this article. I would never have known this information came from a book without reading the discussion page and I'm quite sure numerous people won't read this page. --68.50.23.9 11:47, 6 August 2005 (UTC)


 * If you click the little numbers in square brackets throughout the text it'll take you to the link to the source. Those little numbers means things are from other sources. Charlycrash (talk) 19:05, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

The fact that it comes from a book also doesnt mean its inaccurate. There also is a tendency to believe that all "conspiracy theories" are wrong, which is ludicrous.

The article needs to be edited as everbody says, I put one of these at the top --FlareNUKE 23:52, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Just because one person doesn't like it doesn't mean it's biased. They took a vote and decided to keep the page. Find something better to do and let it go.

The conspiracy theory is rather baseless speculation, and considered the standards applied to other, more visited pages, I'm surprised it hasn't been removed. There is no evidence or justification given, and the source is barely a step above something like The Weekly World News. Wikipedia doesn't credit such sources so it's surprising that in this case, anything goes as long as it's in book form. You can find books that say nearly anything, it doesn't mean they are legitimate, credible sources, or that speculation without any evidence, when published as a book, is a valid source. A closer examination of the content and the actual quality of the source itself would have better served this article in this case. 10:40, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The conspiracy theories surrounding Cobain's death are, frankly, also pretty ridiculous, yet they're still on his page. Honestly, most conspiracy theories are pretty ridiculous, but I don't see why noting the existence of such theories and describing them to some degree is anything other than desirable provided that the article makes it clear that it's listing ALLEGATIONS MADE BY OTHERS and not listing facts. It's impossible to talk about JFK without talking about grassy knolls and second gunmen - how are the Pfaff conspiracies any different? Certainly not weight of evidence, as the JFK conspiracies also dissolve easily with a few well-chosen hard facts. Charlycrash (talk) 19:05, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes but this isn't Kennedy this a pretty much just some rock musician from the 90's who was a junkie, it's fairly different. 156.110.50.6 (talk) 16:10, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Just another junkie rock musician from the 90's a? What an ignorant thing to say, buy typical of someone like you who gets their education from places like People magazine. Kristen was in Hole for one year (the last year) of her life, and did not become a "junkie" until playing with Hole. Her life reflects much more than playing in Hole, that was one year of her life, and by the way the album went triple platinum and she is considered one of the best female musicians to date. Growing up she was a scholar, a classically trained musician, she got full scholarships to Boston College and the University of Minnesota, she was a successful activist that contributed to positive change, and she was a well loved human being. Wankers like you should wait for the Kristen Pfaff film. And I would appreciate if anyone wanting to add or deduct to her biography, would send me an email, I can help clarify what is true and what is not. -Jason Pfaff 10/04/10 jasonpfaff23@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jasonpfaff23 (talk • contribs) 18:42, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Excuse me, who took what vote and decided to keep what page? I veto the conspiracy theory section. It's based on one person's input, whose input is extremely biased -- it should go on THAT person's page, not Kristen's. Mistertruffles (talk) 07:29, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Took out a bunch of blatant non-NPOV stuff around Kristen's death, which had crept in again, and the links to the Justice For Kurt website, which were irrelevant to her biography. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.29.108.71 (talk) 06:47, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism ?
I am not sure whether the recent edit by 'Jnggobills' is valid. it's something about 'losing her "flag"' Can someone please verify ? SiegerKranzMeer 05:27, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Identify
I read somewhere that Kristen identified as bisexual. Was that the case? Is there a reliable source for it? JenAW (talk) 17:41, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Reference for leaving Hole
Does anybody have a reference for Pfaff deciding to leaving Hole after Cobain's death? It's possibly in the film "Hit So Hard". Jonpatterns (talk) 13:21, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

The film "Hit so hard" doe's not get into much detail about kristen deciding to leave hole BeansMad302 (talk) 16:12, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Trimmed Posthumous achievements/Acknowledgements etc
Posthumous achievement section and other bits removed by User:Ceoil, not sure why. Version before trim: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kristen_Pfaff&oldid=586441780 Jonpatterns (talk) 15:45, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I've added in the Posthumous information under Posthumous Acknowledgements, which sounds better to me. I've put the paragraphs in chronological order and moved the Club 27 to an 'Also see' section - which seems more appropriate. Jonpatterns (talk) 12:49, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

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"Kristen snoring in bathtub" or was it something more worse?
"snoring in bathtub" gurgling or snoring sounds can be heard during a person who is dying could this be the case? Even if it may be a murder maybe it was a struggle? Ive searched on YouTube by a mortician that people do this also when they have died. BeansMad302 (talk) 16:18, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

A death rattle is a crackling, wet sound that is heard at varying levels with each breath. Sometimes, the sound is soft and moan-like. Other times it's loud and sounds like snoring or gargling. What is your thoughts on this? BeansMad302 (talk) 16:41, 5 March 2022 (UTC)