Talk:Lü Bu

Lu Bu's birthday and year
There are stories I and my relatives in China hear, that say, that Lu Bu was born on December 22nd, 156 AD. He was in his late teens when he was adopted by Dong Zhuo. >.> 74.69.189.75 (talk) 21:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Do you have the source of these stories? Lonelydarksky (暗無天日)  contact me (聯絡) 14:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Untitled discussion
Bold textthe article seems combining facts and fiction. should clear it some time later. Wshun
 * Agree. See my recent posting at Pages_needing_attention. Kowloonese 22:35, 15 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I say adding a section for the fictional Lu Bu of the ROTK novel would be a good idea.

Fact or fiction
An unregistered user recently made edits to this article, changing several historical facts to fictional knowledge he perhaps perceived from the Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Several important differences to note:
 * 1. Lü Bu was hanged, not beheaded as dramatized by the historical novel.
 * 2. Diao Chan was a fictional character, not existing in history. Lü Bu did have amorous relationships with one (or maybe even a few, it is hard to tell as Chinese words do not have plural forms) chambermaid of Dong Zhuo, according to the Chronicles of the Three Kingdoms, and it was from here perhaps the story of Diao Chan was later developed.

--Plastictv 01:33, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Also, I've heard that in history, Sun Jian-- not the three brothers-- defeatd Lu Bu and pushed him back. Wether or not it was Sun Jian himself in a duel, or simply Sun Jian's army, I don't know, but I thought it appropriate to bring it up.Melissia 16:41, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Wade-Giles name
According to the version of Romance of the Three Kingdoms translated by Brewitt-Taylor, the Wade-Giles name of Lü Bu is "Lu Pu". However, according to this conversion table, it could also be "Lü Pu". So i'm putting down both. --Plastictv 02:54, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Lü Bu's birth year
88.107.187.82, do you have a confirmation of Lü Bu's birth year? Neither Hou Han Shu nor Sanguo Zhi gives a birthdate or age for him, as far as I can see. --Nlu 16:09, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

On www.3kingdoms.net it says he was born in 156AD and died in 198AD, I believe this site would be truthful because it is all about the three kingdoms Commented By: greenday_bjh@yahoo.com(Please E-Mail if you have questions)

Birth year again
In the years section of wikipedia, both 153 and 156 are shown as Lu Bu's birthyear. This article shows it as 153. I think it couldn't be either, because by the time of the battle of Xia Pi, he'd have been at least 42, and can people be that strong during middle age? Any ideas? Cao Wei 01:39, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Neither Hou Hanshu nor Sanguo Zhi gives a birthdate. --Nlu (talk) 02:32, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

On www.3kingdoms.net it says he was born 156AD & died 198AD.I think that if somone is set to good strength when they are young they could have great strength when they are older. Even though I am no one to talk, u have to realize then 42 would equal today's 64, u also have to realize there are people now in their 70's that are very strong, Huang Zhong was an old fellow was he not?

Commented by: greenday_bjh@yahoo.com(If you have questions, please E-mail)


 * well, he didn't survive xiapi did he? Akinkhoo (talk) 18:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

He was drunk. That's why he died. (that's why they captured that animal) 74.69.189.75 (talk) 20:59, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Mergeto
I think Red Hare should be Merged with Lu Bu. He's the only guy who ever used it, and this article is little more than a stub without the non-Red Hare information. Someone might suggest that it should be merged to Guan Yu, but...then we'll know who's been reading RoTK too much. Cao Wei 01:33, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The fictional stuff makes the horse interesting by itself, so this article couldn't really merge into Lu Bu. _dk 03:32, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * ROTK is notable nevertheless. --  Миборовский  09:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * More than likely, most people wouldn't even care about Lu Bu or Red Hare were it not for RotTK.  Simply note that the fictional parts are fictional, and move on.  That aside, there is no need to merge the articles.  Because of the book, Red Hare is not uniquely identified with Lu Bu.  --Melissia 02:07, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Hung or Strangled
This article claims that Lu Bu was strangled after being caught but later states was hung which is it???
 * He was hanged. i've corrected the misleading info. --Plastictv 16:30, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Cao Cao's biography in Records of Three Kingdoms (aka Sanguozhi) did not give details on how Lü Bu was executed. Romance of the Three Kingdoms (aka Sanguo Yanyi) wrote that Lü Bu was hanged and his corpse beheaded and the severed head put on display after that (i.e. Xiaoshou). Here's the original text from the novel:

操令將呂布縊死，然後梟首. _LDS (talk) 05:35, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Inconsistency
The end of the 'Days of exile' section states "After more than a hundred days of stalemate, a famine breakout forced Lü Bu to give up his position.". The start of the next section, 'Occupation of Xuzhou', states "Thinking that by forcing Cao Cao's retreat he had done Xuzhou a favor...". Something is wrong here - who retreated? Is it referring to the same siege? 203.214.101.33 11:23, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Cao Cao retreated from Xuzhou to attack Puyang and then Lu Bu retreated from Puyang to go to Xuzhou. _dk 22:38, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * similiar to the spring autumn period "besieged Wei to save Zhao". by attack Cao Cao's powerbase, Cao Cao have to withdraw to protect his own cities. hence even he wasn't at Xuzhou, his actions still assisted the defenders. it is a neat tactic, i wish it was use more as it reduces losses by not directly facing the enemies main army for much for the conflict. Akinkhoo (talk) 18:21, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Year of Death
At the beginning of the introduction, it says Lu Bu died 198, yet at the end, it says that the corrections published to "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" had stated his birth year to be February 199. Which is it? 24.72.67.210 (talk) 00:54, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008
Article reassessed and graded as start class. Referencing and appropriate inline citation guidelines not met. With appropriate citations and references, this article would easily qualify as B class if not higher. --dashiellx (talk) 19:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Edit Request From Zepiko, 13 January 2011

 * See second request for response. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:22, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Zepiko (talk) 15:44, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit Request From Zepiko, 13 January 2011
Zepiko (talk) 15:45, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Not done: I assume that what you're requesting is that the picture you included be added to the article. According to Google translate, the caption reads in English, "A photo with the real face of Lü bu More detailed Made by his strategist." While I assume "photo" should be "picture" or "portrait," I don't understand how this was made by his "strategist," given that the picture itself claims to be a self-made drawing by the uploader. As such, until exactly we can determine what this picture is, where it came from, and how authentic it is, I'm not comfortable adding the picture. If you can explain those things, please comment here. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:22, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks like a Dynasty Warriors cg artwork under a pencil crayon filter in Photoshop. _dk (talk) 13:30, 15 January 2011 (UTC)


 * It's actually based on one of Lü Bu's two portraits in Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI. See here. Lonelydarksky (暗無天日)  contact me (聯絡) 04:29, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, a close guess. That makes its existence on Wikimedia Commons against the terms of free use. Is someone willing to initiate a deletion process with the relevant evidence? _dk (talk) 16:44, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll do it. I haven't worked with image copyright before, so I'd like to look into how that process works; if needed, I'll ask a copyright expert.   For the moment, I've commented it out from the talk page. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:39, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Qing Dynasty Illustrations
Hello, I really like those Qing prints. Especially that one with Lü Bu driving away Cao Cao... I've seen more of them scattered over Wikipedia. Did you guys upload these yourself? Where did you find these? --Plunged (talk) 17:34, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


 * those are not Qing Dynasty Illustrations 1990XtoZ (talk) 09:00, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Then, what are they?   LDS  contact me 15:28, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * let me look that up. --1990XtoZ (talk) 19:46, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Lü Bu's image
"His image as a handsome and mighty warrior wearing a pheasant-tailed headdress [...] was later popularised by the historical novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms..."

Is there a source to back this up? (especially the "handsome" and "pheasant-tailed headdress"). Plunged (talk) 19:04, 10 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Doesn't the image in the infobox (and the images of Lü Bu in Koei's games) already support the "pheasant-tailed headdress"? I know that "handsome" is subjective, so you can remove it if you want.   LDS  contact me 11:58, 11 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Alternatively, let's see how Luo Guanzhong described him in Romance of the Three Kingdoms: "a lofty and dignified look, a majestic and awe-inspiring bearing, wielding a Sky Piercer, glaring at (Dong Zhuo) ... hair tied up and worn in a golden headdress, donning a flowery-patterned battle robe, encased in body armour decorated with images of the suanni (a lion-like creature in Chinese mythology), wearing a precious belt adorned with the image of a lion... [生得器字軒昂，威風凜凜，手執方天畫戟，怒目而視. ... 只見呂布頂束髮金冠，披百花戰袍，擐唐猊鎧甲，繫獅蠻寶帶，]. My translation isn't 100% accurate (you can check out Moss Roberts' translation), but that's roughly the idea.    LDS  contact me 12:07, 11 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the replies but I was not referring to Romance of the Three Kingdoms (or Koei), but speaking historically. The sentence I quoted seems to indicate there is a pre-novel source of him wearing a pheasant-tailed headdress ("was later popularised by the novel..."). --Plunged (talk) 15:28, 12 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I do not know of any such sources, but they may exist. As far as I know, his historical biographies in Records of the Three Kingdoms and Book of the Later Han do not contain descriptions on his physical appearance. I guess the person who wrote that sentence probably meant: "His image as a handsome and mighty warrior wearing a pheasant-tailed headdress [...] was popularised by the historical novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms among later generations..."   LDS  contact me 15:46, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Lu Bu lost reputation?
Lu Bu Four betrayal at worse I'm of opinion that Lu Bu has only betrayed at worst four people in the real history and yet due to the reference from the romance of three kingdom got heavily demonized by history. Most of his betrayal could also be explain away. 1.Ding- A MINOR warlord that challanged Dong Zhuo and would've certainly destroyed for doing so.That move was necessary for survival. 2.Dong Zhuo was reference as his foster father,but an adopted father at that time and age doesn't mean the same thing as our time and age.It doesn't hold the same level of bond most of the time. 3.Liu Bei- The only true betrayal and the one that got him killed in the end.Guess him saving Liu Bei with the arrow and sparing Zhang Fei and Liu bei family wasn't such a good idea for leverage.

His military career. His two lost against Sun Jian who was almost undefeated in battle doesn't dampen his current reputation.Hell,the first battle was ruin thanks to infighting and the second battle was him a rear guard.I don't think that position that you could 'win' against an enemy.

Looking at most of his lost and victories,it seems like he was notable talented as a commander and fare extremely well against Cao Cao.Also his campagin against Cao Cao was extremely successful and only was defeated due to his dwildling cause by an unexpected famine that decimated his supplies. Which completely turned the tide against Lu Bu. Lu Bu Suspicious of his troops? I recalled that the statement above was only after losing all territory and that he was down to his last city.The was infighting at that point and betrayal is expected.It seems that you guys draw the statement to that how he's all the time which would fit prominently with the fiction Romance of the three kingdom but go against how he was in the real history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.30.165.129 (talk) 04:03, 1 July 2013 (UTC)


 * You might want to improve on your English first before you start a discussion here. You see all the typos and other errors in what you wrote above? I believe I'm not the only person who has read your comments and doesn't understand what you're trying to say.   LDS  contact me 05:01, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

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