Talk:Last of the Steam-Powered Trains

"Last Steam Engine Train"
In 1964, John Fahey recorded an acoustic guitar instrumental with a similar title, "The Last Steam Engine Train", for his album The Dance of Death & Other Plantation Favorites. It's listed as a Fahey composition, which he described in the liner notes as "combin[ing] elements of white mountain music, Stephen Foster, and Nashville rock and roll." When Leo Kottke recorded it for Greenhouse (1973), the album notes included "also John's [the preceding track had also been recorded by Fahey]. In part from a Sam McGee song." He may be referring to "Railroad Blues" by the McGee brothers, which has some similar guitar parts (OR).

I couldn't find any RS that discusses a connection between Fahey's piece and the Kinks' song, but the title seems too similar to be totally coincidental. Pete Townsend was familiar with Fahey's music and spoke of him in a documentary. It is likely that other English musicians (at least guitarists) were also familiar with Fahey; The Dance of Death was one of his most accessible early albums. Davies also seems to share some of Fahey's peculiar world view (OR). I not sure what you can do with this, but it seemed worth a mention in case you're looking towards a FA.

—Ojorojo (talk) 14:29, 17 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I'll look deeper into it.
 * I also think that the steam train that appears on the cover of Blur's 1993 album Modern Life Is Rubbish was influenced by this song. Damon Albarn was apparently listening to the Kinks non-stop at that time. I haven't found any authors that make that connection though, so it's all original research.  Tkbrett  (✉) 14:41, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * , instead of a see also section, I've included a mention of the instrumental at the top with a distinguish template.  Tkbrett  (✉) 13:20, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm no expert on hatnotes, but it looks good. It might be interesting to see how much traffic it gets. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:05, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I did a google search of "Last Steam Engine Train" and the WP article "Last of the Steam-Powered Trains" shows up around No. 12, after youtube and guitar tab links, while Fahey's or Kotke's albums don't appear in the first two pages. The redirect gets very little traffic, so maybe it isn't needed. Up to you. It would be interesting to see an academic take on the song, but the linked article appears accessible by subscription only. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:42, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think lack of traffic is necessarily considered in whether or not to keep an article or a redirect, so I'll probably just leave it up.
 * The article is behind a paywall, but you can access it for free via JSTOR if you're curious. I could also just email it if you don't want to go through the hassle. Anyway, I'll probably get started on expanding stuff in the new year once Christmas is out of the way.  Tkbrett  (✉) 15:53, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll see what you come up with and take it from there. Happy holidays. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:46, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * While doing some unrelated research, I came across "I've Got Those Fleetwood Mac Chicken Shack John Mayall Can't Fail Blues" by the Liverpool Scene. At 4:10, they go into the "Smokestack" riff for a few bars. It's discussed along with Bonzo Dog's "Can Blue Men Sing the Whites" as a parody of the second English blues boom. Apparently, both came out in 1968, around the time that "Last" was written and recorded. I didn't see any mention of the Kinks, but it seems that Davies would have been aware of other satires and possibly influenced by them. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:02, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Gelbart
The modification that Gelbart is referring to is to the standard 12-bar chord progression rather than the guitar riff he describes in Example 3(a): "The riff is now overlaid with an only-slightly modified 12-bar blues progression (the V chord position is altered to and the pattern is drawn out to 24 bars, but is proportionally correct...)" The riff itself, as he identifies it, doesn't follow the chord changes and only appears when playing on the I. Also, his conclusion that Davies' chord pattern is a "only-slightly modified 12-bar blues" is contrary to his narrative. He describes Train as having a 24-bar pattern with the I changing to the IV during the first eight bars and, more significantly, changing the common V–IV–I during the last bars to ♭III–IV.

These are substantial changes that are highly usual for a blues song and in effect introduce major non-blues elements to the song. It is near impossible to see how they could make "an old blues song even 'bluesier. AllMusic's Janovitz describes "Smokestack" as "almost like a distillation of the essence of the blues"; how does one take that and make it bluesier (more authentic, truer to the source)? WP:EXTRAORDINARY should apply here and other RSs are needed to support his view.

—Ojorojo (talk) 15:11, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * A better wording might be: Musicologist Matthew Gelbart describes the song as having a twenty-four-bar structure that is "proportionally correct" in comparison to a standard twelve-bar blues. However, Davies uses different chords at points, including replacing the final V–IV–I with ♭III–IV.
 * I'm not an academic, but his "12 bars, with a very slow measure" is peculiar – popular music is usually counted on the drum beats, which, as he says, makes it 24. I moved it to a footnote, although I'm not sure it adds anything.
 * —Ojorojo (talk) 15:29, 11 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks . I was very into music theory... around a decade ago. At this point, unless something is really obviously wrong, I don't feel I really have the ability to assess the rightness or wrongness of an author. I think the changed wording looks good though, so long as we tweak "notes" to "writes" (MOS:SAID) and probably just drop the "however" (MOS:OFCOURSE). Sorry, I didn't mean to let this sit for so long, I just haven't gotten back into the swing or serious editing since the holidays.  Tkbrett  (✉) 14:16, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I added it along with your changes. Don't worry, it won't affect your Christmas bonus. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:57, 13 January 2023 (UTC)