Talk:Lastage

This is a fascinating and informative article about this neighborhood. However, the following sentence has been written using the most euphemistic, soft-pedaling language available, which amounts to whitewashing the holocaust:

"After the Nazi occupation of World War II, many of the area's residents had relocated or been deported and large parts of the neighbourhood had fallen into disrepair."

Please, the "area's residents" were not simply "relocated" or "deported". They were hunted down, forced onto cattle cars, and sent to be exterminated because they were Jewish or had "too much" Jewish ancestry. The very few who managed to survive and return after the war (85 percent of Dutch jewrey were murdered), came back to find their homes pulled apart by the Dutch who remained; all available wood being picked away to burn during the last, cold "hunger winter", and any valuable materials or possessions long since sold. The whole neighborhood was a ghost town, a ruin. The ugly housing that now fills these streets is a living reminder of these traumatic events.

This significant part of the history of the area is spectacularly underplayed by that one, euphemistic sentence. Please, can anyone do it justice? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.132.52.244 (talk) 10:27, 29 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Most Jews lived in adjacent neighborhoods like Uilenburg (Amsterdam), Rapenburg and the Plantage, not on the Lastage, although a few might have. Perhaps you can find more information in these articles.Taksen (talk) 12:35, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Islands of the Lastage
What is the historic name of the two islands at the southern end of the Lastage bounded by the Kloveniersburgwal, Raamgracht, Zwanenburgwal and the Amstel? It's strange, because none of the English or Dutch language articles on various locations on these islands even mention the name of the modern buurt they are in (Zuiderkerkbuurt). and even the neighboring former island of Vlooienburg has its own article. I suspect these must have had a collective name, at least. Closest I've been able to guess is that they were called "Zwanenburg". When were they raised and for what purpose? This area seems like a black hole her on Wikipedia. Criticalthinker (talk) 07:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Although I never worked on this article, the original in Dutch in from me, and I will answer you. As far as I know the "islands" you mention never had a name and were seldon treated separately in local history.Taksen (talk) 12:41, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Any information on when this island was made? I assume around the same time as Vlooienburg? It's strange, because an actual canal, the Groenburgwal, was created through it at some time, but we aren't given a date on when that canal happened, either. And the articles on the Groenburgwal then mention the 's-Gravelandseveer and the Blauwbrug, which seems to me not to be relevant to anything. If there is some way to clear this up on the various articles, that would be great. Criticalthinker (talk) 07:14, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Reply
The selling of plots and houses on Groenburgwal began in 1596 before Vlooienburg was created:

https://archief.amsterdam/indexen/persons?f=%7B%22search_i_datum%22:%7B%22v%22:%5B%2214000000%22,%2216499999%22%5D,%22d%22:%221400%20-%201649%22%7D%7D&ss=%7B%22q%22:%22Groenburgwal%22%7D&sa=%7B%22search_s_register_type_title%22:%5B%22Kwijtscheldingen%22%5D%7D&sort=%7B%22order_i_datum%22:%22asc%22%7D&rows=100

Ramen or Grote Bleekveld in 1598

https://archief.amsterdam/indexen/persons?f=%7B%22search_i_datum%22:%7B%22v%22:%5B%2214000000%22,%2216499999%22%5D,%22d%22:%221400%20-%201649%22%7D%7D&ss=%7B%22q%22:%22Kloveniersburgwal%20bleekveld%22%7D&sa=%7B%22search_s_register_type_title%22:%5B%22Kwijtscheldingen%22%5D%7D&sort=%7B%22order_i_datum%22:%22asc%22%7D&rows=100

Zwanenburgwal in 1602:

https://archief.amsterdam/indexen/persons?f=%7B%22search_i_datum%22:%7B%22v%22:%5B%2214000000%22,%2216499999%22%5D,%22d%22:%221400%20-%201649%22%7D%7D&ss=%7B%22q%22:%22Zwanenburgwal%22%7D&sa=%7B%22search_s_register_type_title%22:%5B%22Kwijtscheldingen%22%5D%7D&sort=%7B%22order_i_datum%22:%22asc%22%7D&rows=100

When you substitute Raamgracht you will see it started in 1605.