Talk:Laura Albert

Merge proposal
''Note: please add comments about this propsed merge on the Talk:JT LeRoy page. The comments below are duplicates.''

Since the idea has been proposed, allow me to set up a straw poll.


 * Oppose. Merging JT LeRoy and Laura Albert is inappropriate in this case, because JT LeRoy was not only Laura Albert, but also Savannah Knoop, Geoffrey Knoop, and likely a few other accomplices. This is not a pen name or pseudonym, but a hoax. There are also precedents set for other hoaxes; see the See Also section at the bottom of the article. Jokestress 16:16, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose for two reasons; as Jokestress says, JT LeRoy was really a collaborative hoax, not a mere pseudonym of Laura Albert; but also, Laura Albert has a notable identity distinct from JT LeRoy. See the talk pages of W. Mark Felt and Deep Throat (Watergate) for a fairly clear consensus on a similar issue.  Chick Bowen 03:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Per Jokestress's reasoning.  --Lockley 23:45, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Birth date
Salon article dated March 8, 2006 gives the following: "How did a 40-year-old woman fool the world into thinking she was teenage prostitute and wunderkind author JT LeRoy?" and "She was a Scorpio and said all the girls who worked there were Scorpios." 

Since Scorpios are born late October through most of November, and she is now 40, that puts her birth date in late 2005. I am changing the date accordingly. Jokestress 03:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Transferred apparent comment by Albert
Transferred the following comment by - Skysmith (talk) 10:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

"Employees at Disneyland Paris and two Paris hotels confirmed that the person claiming to be JT LeRoy matched photographs of Laura Albert, who told the employees she was traveling with her husband and son. She told hotel employees who thought JT LeRoy was male that she was a transsexual woman who had sex reassignment surgery three years earlier.

I am Laura Albert and I never told anyone I am or was a transsexual woman who had sex reassignment surgery three years earlier. I did identify myself as JT LeRoy. If they has any beliefs or concerns as to what Jt LeRoy's gender was they either discussed it in French, which I do not speak, or they did not discuss it at all - either way it was NEVER brought up to me. I look very female and have never tried to pass myself off as male even when I wished I could have. I have contact with some of these employees and they can confirm this."

JT LeRoy/Laura Albert pages
This post on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents is being shared with you: I protest most strenuously the interference with my October 15 edit of the JT LeRoy page. I replaced properly cited, pertinent information, and for Aloha27 to pull it down claiming "unreliably cited information" is completely unfair -- and suggests a different agenda is at work here, one that seeks to advance the argument of the original vandalism that I undid. Aloha27 needs to explain in what way the original text had "unreliably cited information", or else undo what they did. Now a brand-new editor -- 2601:646:4000:5076:d464:a479:a51b:ddc6 -- makes their first edit on the page for Laura Albert (the actual author behind the JT LeRoy books), adding something shamelessly judgmental and biased: After a quote of Argento praising Albert in 2013, this editor added the following commentary: "However in July of 2016, Asia Argento came further forward and break her silence on her real thoughts about the scandal." Ignoring the grammatical failings, who on earth is this person to say what Argento's or anyone else's "real thoughts" are? It was quite right that a vandalism warning accompanied that edit. It was totally unacceptable editing and I have repaired it; in the spirit of balance, however, I have not removed the 2016 quote.

The Wikipedia editors have to ask themselves a very simple question about the JT LeRoy and Laura Albert pages: Do they want an unbiased article with cited and accurate information, which leaves readers free to make up their own minds -- like we do for everyone else, from Britney Spears to Joseph Stalin -- or do they want a page that continuously seeks to judge and denounce its subject? A page rewritten to legitimize the hate-filled screed "The Cult of JT LeRoy" by Marjorie Sturm. It's no accident that "Msturm 8" and her previous sock puppets -- Itzat94118," "Earthyperson," "Truthlovepeace," "174.119.2.166" -- keep putting up the same judgmental, slanted language that currently distorts the JT LeRoy page.

I urge all the editors I have cited to stop moralizing and slanting information, stop distorting the record. The JT LeRoy and Laura Albert pages have to be as legitimate as all the other Wikipedia pages. I am adding this post to the Talk pages for JT LeRoy, Laura Albert, and all the editors involved in or cited in this thread.NVG13DAO (talk) 16:57, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Amicus brief as a reference
An amicus brief is not subject to peer review or editorial oversight. It's a piece of advocacy, and also a primary source. Per WP:BLPPRIMARY, we should not rely on such primary sources (and "trial transcripts and other court records" are explicitly mentioned; amicus briefs should be treated the same) in the biography of a living person. I'll thus again remove the two paragraphs based on that brief. Huon (talk) 19:28, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Blanket recommendations about primary sources are to be used with sensitivity and discretion. To jump on anything that falls outside the recommendation and claim tearing it down isn't vandalism is a specious argument -- first you have to look at the information and how it was used. It was not used "to support assertions about a living person", as the Wikipedia guidelines urge editors to avoid. The Amicus brief information in this entry shows how the Authors Guild saw this trial as a free-speech issue, which is completely pertinent to the subject of the trial. I urge you to undo your damaging deletion ASAP.NVG13DAO (talk) 20:11, 17 October 2016 (UTC)


 * You can't have it both ways. Either this is "completely pertinent to the subject", a living person; then WP:BLP and WP:BLPPRIMARY apply. Or it isn't used "to support assertions about a living person"; then it's off-topic and should be removed for that reason. Either way, citing an amicus brief in the absence of coverage in secondary sources is not appropriate. The same goes for interviews with the subject. If no secondary coverage exists, this simply is not an important aspect of Albert's biography. My deletion isn't damaging, it's upholding core policies such as WP:NPOV. Huon (talk) 21:34, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Request to delete controversial material in first paragraph
The following content is at the end of the first paragraph. It is a quote referencing an event that was part of a larger issue and a larger discussion (there was a settlement thereafter, the prosecution wanted the defendant's life rights, the question of use of pseudonyms and avatars and an author's right to privacy or to control their public persona, etc.), and should not be in the first paragraph- if anything, it should be in the section "Fraud Charges" or "Trial."

Albert was convicted of fraud in June 2007. The New York Times reported, "JT LeRoy, the authorial “other” whom the writer Laura Albert employed as her alter ego and self-protective proxy in the world, was found yesterday by a jury in Manhattan to be not just a fictional creation, but a fraud."[2]

PacificOcean (talk) 21:16, 17 November 2016 (UTC)


 * A lawsuit that almost cost her the copyrights to her works seems relevant enough. It was a civil case, though; I have reworded it. Huon (talk) 01:47, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Clarify a pronoun
Under the section "Writing and other Activities" The "She" in the following sentence should be replaced by the name "Laura Albert," since it could be confused with Savannah Knoop who is the subject of the sentence immediately preceding:

She attests that she could not have written from raw emotion without the right to be presented to the world via JT LeRoy, whom she calls her "phantom limb," according to a 2006 interview in the Paris Review. PacificOcean (talk) 21:24, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
 * More clarity never hurts. ✅ P p p er y 19:04, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Please help clean up section on "controversy of authorship" so it is scholarly and not tabloid
❌ The request is repeated below with additional details. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 10:44, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Please help clean up "Fraud Charges" section
Here is the section below with my requested edits in bold, and reasons in italics:

Fraud charges[edit source] Antidote International Films, Inc., and its president Jeffrey Levy-Hinte announced plans for a film adaptation of Sarah to be directed by Steven Shainberg. According to The New York Times, when Shainberg "learned who had truly written 'Sarah' an inspiration came to him to make a 'meta-film,' a triple-layered movie that would blend the novel with the lives of its real and purported authors in a project he took to calling 'Sarah Plus.'"[22] The Times also reported that this new project "required the rights to Laura Albert's story, rights that she in no uncertain terms refused to grant."[23] ''' The following sentence lacks enough grounding. It's unclear what his "loss" was, or what truth he was trying to convey, and it doesn't serve this section- it only serves to cloud this section with unclear information. The previous sentences in this section were concrete and easy to follow, but this quote is not. ''' Levy-Hinte stated, "that the lawsuit was less about getting his money back than about sticking up for fair dealing and telling the truth. I’m kind of a person of principle. I wasn’t willing to simply walk away and take a loss with no apology or reasonable explanation.”"[24]

In June 2007 Antidote sued Laura Albert for fraud, claiming that a contract signed with JT LeRoy to make a feature film of Sarah was null and void.[25] ''' I don't really understand the following sentence (about ABC news and Shakespeare), and I think that I'm a competent reader.. so that means that most readers probably won't really understand this sentence. Can it be removed? ''' ABC News questioned whether Antidote’s lawyer “may have misfired by comparing Albert to Shakespeare in an attempt to claim that authorship matters. ‘You think Shakespeare would be Shakespeare if he didn’t write it — whoever Shakespeare really is?’ he asked.”[26] On June 22 a Manhattan jury found Albert liable in monetary damages for the tort of fraud because she had signed her nom de plume to the movie contract. She was ordered to pay $110,000 to Antidote, covering the option contract, as well as an extra $6,500 in punitive damages.[27] ''' in the following sentence, the quote should begin with a capital letter.. this edit request is just regarding simple writing rules..'''In reporting the verdict, The New York Times noted that Jeffrey Levy-Hinte said, “if Ms. Albert, who never made a fortune from her literary works, could not afford to pay the judgment, he might have to consider laying claim to the rights to her past and future books.”[28] On July 31, 2007, the court ordered Albert to pay an additional $350,000 in legal fees to Antidote.[29] After having appealed, the damages awarded were reduced by settlement with Antidote in 2009, and Laura Albert retained the rights to her books and her life story.[30]

''' I do not think the quote from Filmmaker magazine adds anything but an opinion, and a not very useful or clear opinion at that. ''' According to Filmmaker magazine, "Antidote v. Albert has succeeded in extending the 21st century’s most fascinating literary hoax into a whole new discursive realm. While some have argued that the case is about the right of an author to create a pseudonym for him or herself (and Antidote has proposed that it’s just about the non-ability of a fictitious person to enter into legal agreements), the verdict is a step towards defining the responsibilities of the alter-ego. In an age in which many if not most people employ fictitious identities in everything from puffed-up dating profiles to Second Life avatars, Antidote v. Albert seeks to identify the responsibilities of identity — even a fictitious one."[31] PacificOcean (talk) 23:00, 17 November 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't think this tone is appropriate; also, there are far too many quotes for comfort from a copyright point of view. I have rewritten the section. Huon (talk) 01:47, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Proposed rewrite of "Fraud Charges" section
First, I propose that the section be called "Lawsuit with Antidote Films International"

Second, I propose the following to replace the current content:

In 2003, Antidote International Film, a film production company, bought an option to make a movie of the book in 2003. Three years later, when it learned that JT Leroy did not exist, sued Ms. Albert for fraud, saying the option should be null and void.

Antidote and its president, Jeffrey Levy-Hinte, said they spent $110,000 working on a film based on "Sarah." The company still held a one-year option on the book in 2007, when Jeffrey Levy-Hinte filed court papers asking for a million dollars in lawyers’ fees, a rather staggering sum considering his lost investment in the case was $100,000, a tenth of what he spent. The company was said in court to have planned a second movie when the first fell through, a “meta-movie” in the vein of “Adaptation,” one that mixed the lives of both Ms. Albert and her fictional persona in a project that was known within the company as “Sarah Plus.” But that required the rights to Laura Albert’s story, rights that she in no uncertain terms refused to grant. The jury ordered the $110,000 paid to Antidote, along with $6,500 in punitive damages. U.S. District Court Judge Jed Rakoff said he would determine later whether attorneys' fees would be awarded. The judge, Jed S. Rakoff, ordered payment to be made at three times the jury’s civil verdict — $280,000 in legal fees and $70,000 in what his order labeled costs.

Laura Albert appealed and in 2009, her appellate attorney, Donald David, confirmed the existence of a settlement in which Albert would retain ownership of all her copyrights on past and future work, while agreeing to pay a figure “less than the original amount” of the judgment against her. “The payments are dependent upon her earnings in future years,” David clarified, calculated by a percentage of her income rather than a fixed schedule, “so she can write without fear of anybody looking over her shoulder. The most important thing is to put the issue behind her, so she can get on with her real purpose, which is to write creatively.”

PacificOcean (talk) 23:56, 17 November 2016 (UTC)


 * This still editorializes and heavily quotes. I've rewritten that section, though. Huon (talk) 01:47, 18 November 2016 (UTC)


 * I will revert 2601:646:4000:5076:3cbd:ea0d:e7d:ed0f's changes, for the following reasons:
 * The content may be sourced, but not all of it is relevant. Shainberg's inspirations do not improve our readers' understanding of Albert; neither do Levy-Hinte's motivations or the Filmmaker Magazine's comments on the court case from a juristic point of view.
 * The content in question was heavily based on needless quotes. There's nothing gained by giving the various newspaper reports in their own words - except copyright concerns. Huon (talk) 22:41, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Request for revision and reorganization of sections "Writing and other Activities" as well as "Authorship controversy"
OUTLINE OF CHANGES I PROPOSE: I am proposing a rewrite of the two middle sections of content.

The first section, titled "Writing and other Activities" in its current form deviates from the topic, and instead goes into various irrelevant critiques of the work. I have edited this section to focus solely on listing the titles and publish dates of the work, and paraphrasing of some educated descriptions of the work content. Beyond the books, I have cleaned up the sections to focus solely on the work that Laura Albert has created herself (whether it be performance, film, or appearances), instead of listing all the media that may or may not have been created about her without her own doing.

The second section in its current form is erroneously titled "Authorship Controversy." The current title implies that there are various people claiming to be the author, and this is not the case. The author of the books was Laura Albert, under the pseudonym of JT Leroy. It is the pseudonym and the life that the pseudonym took on in public that is of interest- and thus the section should be titled "Pseudonym."

In its current form, the second section undertakes a disorganized and gossip-like discussion of Albert's moral character and the feelings of spectators. This is not of interest to Wikipedia on this page- instead this section should clearly describe the story of the authorship, and in this case, the pseudonym. In my rewrite, I have gone in consequential order to describe the facts of how the pseudonym came to be, how Laura Albert came to publish under that pseudonym, and in what ways the name was used in public marketing and discourse. I still do mention that there have been various opinions on the matter but I clarify what in fact were the applications of the pseudonym and the point of departure between Laura Albert and her pseudonym. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PacificOcean (talk • contribs) 23:12, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Writing and other Activities

Laura Albert published three books under the JT Leroy pseudonym– Sarah (2000), The Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things (2001), and Harold's End (2004).

According to the New Republic, Sarah was the second book Albert wrote but the first one published. The narrator is an adolescent among a group of lot lizards, teen male prostitutes at truck stops. Each wears a signature raccoon penis bone necklace. Leroy aspires to be like his mother, Sarah, to move higher in the ranks of prostitutes. The book is by JT Leroy but Leroy’s character is never directly named. The nom de lizard is 'Cherry Vanilla' or, more regularly he is called Sarah, after his mother. The writing is evocative of a folksy magical realism, vivid, colorful phrases to describe the unconventional and gritty reality of a young gender-fluid boy.

SF Weekly's literary critic described the "The Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things" as "essentially the prequel to Sarah." This novel is a collection of ten stories that describe a "chaotic, nomadic, and abuse-filled childhood." In the opening story, "Disappearances," a young boy named Jeremiah leaves a stable foster home to reunite with his biological mother, Sarah, an 18-year-old drug addict. The stories begin in Appalachia and follow the characters to California. Jeremiah's grandfather beats him while invoking judgmental Christian dogma. The abuse is the most consistent form of physical touch Jeremiah knows, and he comes to interpret it as a form of love.

Laura Albert wrote "Dreams of Levitation," Sharif Hamza's short film for NOWNESS, and has also written for the acclaimed television series Deadwood. The film "Radiance," which she also wrote, was made an Official Selection of the 2015 Bokeh South African International Fashion Film Festival. She collaborated with director and playwright Robert Wilson for the international exhibition of his VOOM video portraits, and with the catalog for his "Frontiers: Visions of the Frontier" at Institut Valencià d'Art Modern (IVAM). In 2012 she served on the juries of the first Brasilia International Film Festival and the Sapporo International Short Film Festival; she also attended Brazil's international book fair, Bienal Brasil do Livro e da Leitura, where she and Alice Walker were the U.S. representatives. Brazil's Geração Editorial has re-released the JT LeRoy books in a boxset under Laura Albert's name, and she and JT are the subjects of the hit Brazilian rock musical JT, Um Conto de Fadas Punk ("JT, A Punk Fairy Tale"). On March 11, 2014, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that the Academy of Friends Oscar Party in San Francisco invited JT LeRoy – played by gender-fluid fashion model Rain Dove Dubilewski – to walk the runway as part of its HIV/AIDS fundraiser.

Laura Albert recently starred in a documentary about JT LeRoy that premiered at Sundance, titled Author: The JT LeRoy Story (2016) directed by Jeff Feuerzeig.

She has taught at Dave Eggers' 826 Valencia and the California College of the Arts in San Francisco, and has lectured with artist Jasmin Lim at Artists' Television Access with SF Camerawork's Chuck Mobley, in conjunction with a window installation about her work. A spokeswoman for the successful "Heart for Eye" campaign to raise funds for eye surgery for children, Laura Albert hosted a television segment and was both an interviewee and an interviewer of inspirational women such as Anastasia Barbieri and Anh Duong. She was photographed by Steven Klein for QVEST magazine and by Kai Regan for his "Reckless Endangerment" at ALIFE; she has also done fashion shoots for Christian Lacroix and John Galliano. Laura Albert profiled Juergen Teller for the 2003 Citibank Photography Prize catalogue; and published her reminiscence of Lou Reed in The Forward. She was a catalog contributor for the "Blind Cut" exhibition at New York's Marlborough Chelsea and collaborated with Williamsburg band Japanther, releasing a limited-edition cassette under the name True Love in a Large Room, with original artwork by Winston Smith. She has also written for dot429, the world's largest LGBTA professional network, and been an invited speaker at their annual conferences in New York.

Pseudonym (instead of current title- "Authorship controversy;" there is no controversy about the authorship- the author is JT Leroy, the pseudonym for Laura Albert)

As a teen, Laura Albert called suicide hotlines for help. She felt more comfortable speaking with strangers as a boy because of the sexual abuse and degradation she'd suffered that seemed, in her world, relatively common as a female. She found counselors to be sympathetic when she called as a male. Calling a suicide hotline in the 1990s, she reached Dr. Terrence Owens, a psychologist with the McAuley Adolescent Psychiatric Program at St. Mary's Medical Center in San Francisco. Dr. Terrence Owens did not know her as Laura Albert at the time, but as Terminator. She explored this role in their conversations. Dr. Terrence Owens is credited with encouraging Terminator, who later became known as JT Leroy, to write during their phone therapy sessions.

Laura Albert explained the circumstances of JT's existence in a Fall 2006 Paris Review interview with Nathaniel Rich. She attested that she could not have written from raw emotion without the right to be presented to the world via JT LeRoy, whom she calls her "phantom limb." "I had survived sexual and physical abuse and found a way to turn it into art," she later wrote in The Forward. "Having struggled with issues of gender fluidity when there was no language for it, I created a character both on and off the page who modeled this as yet to be named state of being."

Laura Albert went on to pursue literary conversations under the guise of JT Leroy, or as his friend Speedie. According to author Mary Gaitskill, at a dinner date in which she and Leroy were to meet, instead, JT’s friend, Speedie, sat down, and she and Gaitskill had a long conversation. "She struck me as very bright and very young," recalled Gaitskill.

Some accused Laura Albert of intentionally manipulating people with a sympathetic persona such as Leroy's in order to gain access and publication that she would not otherwise have been able to achieve as Laura Albert. According to the SF Gate, whether the hoax was a performance-art lark or a cynical Ponzi scheme has been hotly debated. Those who defend the work argue that the stories -- no matter the source -- have touched people, furnishing their minds as literature does. And, they note, the books have always been labeled fiction."

Said Gaitskill in one interview, “It’s occurred to me that the whole thing with Jeremy is a hoax, but I felt that even if it turned out to be a hoax, it’s a very enjoyable one. And a hoax that exposes things about people, the confusion between love and art and publicity. A hoax that would be delightful and if people are made fools of, it would be okay—in fact, it would be useful.”

What is not debated is that there was a demand for JT Leroy to appear in public. SF Chronicle commented that, "The permeable membrane between author and subject was tantalizing." Leroy was known to avoid the spotlight and refuse to be labelled permanently male or female. His edgy work, as well as his elusiveness, drew attention from the media and developed a cult-like following, with praise from celebrities including Winona Ryder, Courtney Love, and Bono. The publisher and marketers capitalized on this fascination to provide further opportunities to expose the books. The Heart is Deceitful Above All Things was described in the Publisher's Comments as "The extraordinary stories that brought the author a cult following at the age of sixteen," and "loosely edited autobiographical stories" for the persona of JT Leroy.

Instead of discarding her pseudonym and exposing herself in order to remind the public that Leroy's story, though published as fiction, was not in fact, a memoir, Laura Albert chose her sister-in-law, Savannah Knoop, a 25-year-old aspiring clothes designer, to embody the pseudonym in public. In 2001, a person claiming to be LeRoy began appearing in public, usually decked out in wigs and sunglasses". Thereafter, the persona of JT Leroy took on a public life of its own with a backstory that echoed the settings and events described in the books. Savannah Knoop as JT Leroy, wore wigs and sunglasses, and was often accompanied by Laura Albert as her roommate, called Speedie/Emily Frasier, and Geoffrey Knoop, called Astor.

A friend, Steve O’Connor, said that he knew Laura Albert had written the books. Star photographer Mary Ellen Mark claimed that when she photographed Savannah Knoop for a Vainty Fair shoot she was certain that Savannah Knoop was a woman and recalled the costumed JT Leroy persona as "a masquerade that a lot of fancy people fell for...A put-on that didn't harm anybody."

However, Stephen Beachy published an article in 2001 to imply that Laura Albert wrote the stories, and later the New York Times confirmed that JT LeRoy was the invention of Speedie/Emily, whose real name is Laura Albert. Vanity Fair also publicly announced that Laura Albert wrote all of J.T.’s books, articles, and stories, corresponded as J.T. by e-mail, and spoke as him on the phone. Savannah Knoop stopped making public appearances as JT Leroy. The media's attention shifted from a fascination with the persona of JT Leroy and the writing, to a castigation of Laura Albert. Laura Albert did not publish writing as JT Leroy again.

Over the next decade, without the pseudonym, Laura Albert gradually became more publicly expressive. Writing for The New York Times in 2016, Albert noted, "I meet a lot of young people and they're shocked that it was an issue to even have an avatar. Because they've grown up where you have multiple fully formed avatars."

Media discussion about Laura Albert's creation of the JT Leroy pseudonym and public persona continues to this day. "Looking back, Laura Albert anticipated just about all of it," commented author Adam Langer. "Long before we had split our personas into the lives we truly live and the ones that we choose to create on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and everywhere else, Albert created her own avatar."

References

PacificOcean (talk) 01:30, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Update on December 6, 2016- I have been on Live Chat three times throughout the last few weeks to bring up any objections to this edit. Since there have been no objections, I will go ahead and make the edit. If there are any objections hereafter, please feel free to discuss. Thank you. PacificOcean (talk) 21:19, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi there. I had a look, and it seems to be fine, so I'll let it remain in the article. Note that I have added some "citation needed" templates in certain parts of the passage, which I feel should be backed up with references, as well as an "unverified content" template where content is not backed up by the reference given. Regards, VB00 (talk) 17:26, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Biographical information
This article is in need of biographical information. In an interview with Marc Maron, Albert described her mother as an immigrant, journalist, game show winner, and abuser. Information about parents and upbringing are standard in biographical articles and should be verified and included here. --Tysto (talk) 15:34, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Suggestion to Tysto- why don't you compile that information and post it here as an edit request? PacificOcean (talk) 20:12, 2 December 2016 (UTC)