Talk:List of Persona 4: The Animation episodes

Downsizing.
Could somebody downsize the list? It's large... -Player017 (talk) 04:48, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
 * By that, I didn't meet stop updating. -017Bluefield (talk) 00:25, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Then be bold. Separating the summaries into paragraphs and adding further details won't help.Tintor2 (talk) 01:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Right. Thanks. -017Bluefield (talk) 03:13, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * For some reason, the list was again reverted to the version of longer summaries and details. Reverted based on the tags and this discussion. For an example of a more recent FL anime episode list see List of Buso Renkin episodes. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 18:37, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Episode 11
There is currently a conflict with the summary of episode 11 between user Ryulong and me. It is because of the same topic discussed here. However, summaries containing excessive details are against wp:Plot or Summary style. This was the reason why the list was previously tagged. Moreover, considering previous episodes' summaries, this one is notably longer, making the list inconsistent. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 11:39, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You keep removing phrases that either
 * Important to understanding what went on, or
 * Necessary for proper English grammar (I don't know if you're a native speaker, or a foreign language student of English, but the latter seems more probable).
 * And I am putting those back in. The episode 11 summary is just as long as some of the other summaries, so it is not really inconsistent. I have been trying to make these summaries understandable to the general reader, as well as put back in things that I elieve are essential to the understanding of the episode's plot. We have a new character introduced, and you removed any mention of her. We have Narukami saying "Hey, we should all watch the Midnight Channel tonight, just in case", and you've removed that, too. Would you just trust someone else to write this?— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 20:01, 20 December 2011 (UTC)


 * And it keeps mentioning details:

In conclusion, the current revision still brings unimportant and confusing information to the reader. Not that I do not trust, that's why I didn't revert your summary and trimmed it. Just comparing it with eps 07-10, it is notable it is further detailed, and should be trimmed. By the way, is there a source that says what will happen in episode 12? The previews don't say anything, and speculations shouldn't be brought.Tintor2 (talk) 20:17, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) How is it important that Narukami was the one with the idea to watch the Midnight Channel? It's redundant as all the team end watching it.
 * 2) Why is the new teacher's introduction important? She appears for less than three minutes, and a worthwhile mention of her character will only be necessary in later episodes if it adapts the game.
 * 3) Mitsuo Kubo's identity is confusing in the current revision. How is the general reader going to understand he is the "mysterious figure" mentioned in the beginning?
 * 4) Naoto's sentence "detective Naoto Shirogane informs the gang that the police have solved the case as someone turned himself in for the murders" basically repeats what happens in the previous sentence.
 * Because he says to them they should do it, because she's now a main character, and those last two items sould be fixed. It does not matter if it is longer than other summaries. It is still not a whole plot summary. And it is based on the progression of things that happen in the game, and also there's this.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 20:52, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * But it's still pointless, just leave that "gang decides to watch the Midnight Channel" and there is no need to increase the length. How is the new teacher a "main character"? Did you mean what I said about Naoto? I did not mean to remove Naoto's mention just that she explains what happened last night.Tintor2 (talk) 21:02, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I've rewritten everything so the length is more consistent.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 22:17, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Cool, but was that really necessary? About four kylobites were added to the article. There are about 300 words or more in every summary now which surpasses the limit according to guidelines. Just rearranging the 11th episodes would have been enough.Tintor2 (talk) 01:48, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Guidelines are not explicit rules. They are suggestions.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 02:45, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Update: Added section in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga to request a third opinion regarding the length.Tintor2 (talk) 02:03, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow. Really? There's no upper limit on these things. "ShortSummary" is only a suggestion. And your summaries lack relevant details and I believe you are not a native English speaker, making things even more difficult..— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 02:45, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * First of all, I didn't write the summaries, so your statement that I'm not a native English speaker makes no sense. I first noticed this article when it was by episode 9. Second, I think you are ignoring WP:Plot, stating all the details are needed for the general readers to understand the subject. It's supposed to be a brief summary similar to FLs List of Buso Renkin episodes and List of Bleach episodes (season 1). And yes, it's still a violation of guidelines to have surpass the limit, leading to tags or reverts.Tintor2 (talk) 12:22, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There is no rule that is being broken. Only a suggestion as to length. In my opinion, the shorter summaries lack details that allow the reader to understand things more clearly. I am not giving a play by play. I have, for example, not added the whole comedic interlude that consisted of finding Teddie clothes or the antics surrounding the loss of his head. I've just written things out more clearly, adding in some minor details that I feel will become important later.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 17:03, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * But it still contains pointless details. For example "just as Dojima's police partner Tohru Adachi comes to say the police believe Yukiko is the culprit". How is that important to the episode? The trio was still going to the TV world regardless of the police's beliefs. There is still no explanation that Naoto Shirogane is the "blue-haired individual" mentioned in episode 6. Nevertheless, it's better than how it was in November.
 * By the way, what's with the red links? There are no plans to create such articles and various writers are repeated across the article.Tintor2 (talk) 23:53, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There was no need to mention Adachi so late into the page when he has appeared throughout the whole damn series, and it is the gang's first meeting with him who as we know from the video games is one of the final bosses. "The blue haired individual" needs to be changed, because I am fairly sure Shirogane introduced herself to them earlier on. And WP:REDLINK goes against everything you've said.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 00:35, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Again, like the new teacher, Adachi does not make an important appearance in the series until Risette's episode which was already mentioned. There is no need to be mentioned him earlier if he makes no impact to the plot. The red links from the same writer are repeated various, making it overlink. Citing wp:redlink: "Please only make links that are relevant to the context, but please do create red links to articles you intend to create, technical terms that deserve treatment beyond a mere dictionary definition and topics which should obviously have articles." Are those writers going to have their own articles created?Tintor2 (talk) 01:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

That is your opinion. His appearance in episode 3 is important because it spurs Chie to take action, and it is better to mention characters when they first appear rather than at a subsequent appearance, making it appear that the character suddenly appeared in that particular episode. And it is not wrong to link to the screenwriters' pages, even if they do not currently exist on the English Wikipedia. It is not overlinking and it is not a violation of REDLINK.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 01:14, 22 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Then the same goes for your opinion that an accurate summary should contain most details seen in the episode rather than a overview as seen in the featured lists I previously mentioned. It also appears to be contradicting as, if not, Yukiko should be mentioned in the first episode even though she has no notable impact to the plot (the same goes for Daisuke, Kou, Morooka, and others who appear much earlier than their first mentions, we never say it's their first appearance). Moreover, Naoto's name and job remain unknown to the viewer during the character's first appearance and is not revealed until the latest episode. You still don't say why it is not a violation of redlink even though the same redlink is repeated across the page.Tintor2 (talk) 01:54, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I just think that a little more information than what was originally there is helpful. And I guess you are right about the earliest mention thing, but we should at least mention them when they do something other than stand in the background. So I'll fix these issues (even though Adachi does do something fairly important in ep 3). However, I still do not think you fully grasp WP:REDLINK. All of these people are notable, but we just have no article on them yet. And it is not overlinking. Overlinking is using links for items that are easily understandable.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 02:27, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's the same. Yukiko and Morooka have probably the same amount of lines as Adachi in the first episode with the former giving some comments and the latter insulting Narukami. What I meant by overlinking is repeating the same link various times in the same section. Just once is enough for the reader to know there is an article.Tintor2 (talk) 11:29, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's easier to introduce Adachi in ep 3, and it is easier to introduce Morooka in the camping episode.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 03:10, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * How is it easier? In fact, Adachi has more screentime in ep 9, which leaves more space for a better introduction.Tintor2 (talk) 03:49, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Having more screentime in such a late episode when he's been a character in all of them thusfar does not make sense.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 05:20, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Again with this. In episode 3, the character only gives a piece of information, while in episode 9, he takes a more active role important for the summary. How is episode 3 the best moment to introduce him, if it does not help at all to the viewer?Tintor2 (talk) 14:28, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's an appearance where he spurs the plot to move on. As we know he is a final boss in the games, it is, in my opinion, better to mention that he did something in episode 3 rather than just mentioning his actions in episode 9 as if he never existed before then.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 17:12, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I previously said that the three guys were going to Junes regardless of the police's opinion. Also, we never say it's his first appearance (as we already talked about Yukiko, Daisuke and the others). Just because he will be important later, it doesn't mean he should be mentioned early. If not we should even mention the gas station attendant. Check for example Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 where the character is not mentioned in the beginning in order give only the important information.Tintor2 (talk) 17:56, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That's an article on a video game. This is an article about an arc-heavy television series.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 19:10, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That was just an example. Even though that's a video game article, the two have their focus on the plot. You still did not answer my previous post.Tintor2 (talk) 13:39, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I was asked to post here. So I'll make a few points As an aside, I changed the tags on this page. Episode lists are not under WP:VG, else all those visual novel adaptations would be and they aren't. They have only icidental linkage to the original game. This is also not a list-class article. List classes are reserved for specific type of articles where the primary element is not prose. ∞ 陣  内  Jinnai  21:58, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * A major character's first apperance, unless its a short cameo appearance, is important to note because it is the first apperance. It is something that is excepted when reading any summary when the characters enter the stage. You wouldn't wait to mention Vader's role in The New Hope until he has a major scene; you'd mention it when he first appears with the capture of Princess Leah even though its minor simply because its Vader, the main antagonist.
 * Summaries should be as short as possible while still conveying all essential info. What is essential is obviously up to some editorial judgement, but WP:WAF, WP:SS and WP:MOSTV give some good guidance. The introcution of major characters is one, the major theme or episode plot is another, even if it does not have much to do with the overall plot, although major overarching plot developments should probably be noted.
 * If you want this to reach FL status, the overall length of summaries should be similar in length without a good explanation. Generally an epsiode is more complex isn't going to suffice most of the time. Grammatical reasons, such as disambiguation concerns with List of Popotan episodes ep #9 where 2 characters share the same name is likely to be a better argument than you can't simply summarize an episode that much when so many other series can.
 * Psst. It's Leia.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 22:23, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * My cousin's name is spelled Leah so yea, that's why I think of it like that. ∞ 陣  内  Jinnai  04:03, 25 December 2011 (UTC)


 * By cameo, you mean that they don't make an impact on the plot? If so, that would be why Yukiko Amagi, a major character, is not in the first episodes where she got few lines, but at the same case Adachi is mentioned even though his role was the same.Tintor2 (talk) 13:39, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Amagi is mentioned when she first appears in episode 1 now. We should mention characters as soon as they appear, unless they don't have a speaking role.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 19:47, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, you added those details in the expansion. Also Margaret does not read the future, just Igor. Nevertheless, even Margaret who once talks in a prologue (before the opening) should be mentioned for a short appearance? Morooka also talks in the first episode, while both Daisuke and Kou have their first lines in episode 3. I still don't understand how is that important to the general reader if they don't do anything in that episode that help to advance the plot. In fact, it feels more like undue weight with 4 kylobites added as a result.Tintor2 (talk) 20:05, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I meant to say "And Margaret is with him, too", because she appears in every single episode. I'll figure out a way to introduce Morooka in episode 1, and Daisuke and Kou were only featured in episode 3 (as was Ayane Matsunaga), not named, and I can't think of a way to introduce them for that short scene. And finally the "undue weight" policy is not applicable here because that is an aspect of our neutral point of view policy to ensure that both sides of an argument are presented equally, and one aspect of a topic is not made to be more important than other aspects. Saying "This character was here and did something" is not undue weight as you claim it to be.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 20:24, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Speaking role is not nessasarily the best criteria. FE, Nami from One Piece had a few lines I believe before she was introduced in the anime. However in all of those scenes the action was centered more around the main protagonists ans she was either in the background for those scenes or was the main character onscreen for only a few seconds. There is some level of editorial discretion that goes on here. Speaking is probably a good starting criteria, but a one-liner for a few moments might not be enough to justify inclusion. ∞ 陣  内  Jinnai  04:01, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I went with the idea that "They have been named on camera" or "this is going to be important later based on my limited knowledge of the video game's plot".— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 04:23, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That's about 30 seconds from over 20 minutes of an episode. Rather than focusing on what is important in the video game, it is required to primarily focus on what is important for the general viewer (somebody who may not have played the game). There is no need to write rushed character introductions when nothing important happens in the plot, just mention when they actually do something important for the viewer. Other major characters like Naruto's Sasuke Uchiha, or Bleach's Yasutora Sado make appearances in the first and second episodes from their series, respectively, but they don't help to move on the plot.Tintor2 (talk) 19:38, 25 December 2011 (UTC)


 * To some extent you have a point and to some extent he has a point, but you are both taking it to extremes. Ryulong is by making it there first voiced segment and you are by waiting until they have a major impact in the plot, ie waiting till near the end to metion Adachi even though he's made appearances throughout before then. For Adachi, it is the twist that he is the true culprit that makes that point relevant. If you don't mention it earlier you are changing the way the story unfolds by ignoring that aspect. The reader could be wondering who this Adachi is and why everything seemed to crystalize around him being the true villian. As for the first speaking role, often times the first speaking role is not addressed to the main character. If they aren't talking to him, then perhaps its best not to mention them espeically if they will be formally introduced in the next episode or 2. ∞ 陣  内  Jinnai  19:48, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I used first voiced segment, but also did not refer to them by name if it was not done on screen. Kou Ichijo and Daisuke Nagase are seen in episode 3, but they are not referred to by name (actually Yosuke calls out to Ichijo, but it's not clear which is which). Mitsuo Kubo appears in episode 2 (I mistakenly remembered seeing him in episode 1, but I have fixed that bit), but no one knows who he is then. Likewise, Shirogane's first appearance during the Kanji arc goes unnamed, but she plays a major role for that arc.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 20:05, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Now, it's actually becoming consistent, but the summaries are becoming much longer than in the first expansion. The first episode has become the longest of all, and contains some short events like "As Yu prepares to go home, classmates Chie Satonaka and Yukiko Amagi introduce themselves and walk home with him. Before they leave, Yosuke Hanamura returns a DVD to Chie, but she trips him up to stop him from leaving before she can discover the DVD has been cracked." They may talk to the protagonist, but is that significant for the reader?Tintor2 (talk) 00:57, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Considering that they're all main characters, I would say so.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 01:31, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * But they were already first mentioned in the first rewrite you made in a more significant part. The actual one practically describes a joke no matter how important they are.Tintor2 (talk) 14:11, 26 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Ryulong, there is no reason to go into such detail. That is definatly not what WP:WAF, WP:MOSTV and WP:UNDUE say. This isn't suppose to be a retelling of the story and that's why they have the 350 limit at MOSTV to make certain it doesn't become a blow-by-blow account where you mention minor details of a scene which have no relevance, but could be summed up with just a few words. ∞ 陣  内  Jinnai  16:38, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Copyediting the first episode
Well it's either mention characters when they first appear, or make it seem that the character shows up suddenly by not mentioning them at all until its their focus episode. It's not my fault a lot of crap happens in the first episode.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 20:23, 26 December 2011 (UTC)


 * You can do so without being so verbose. FE, take the DVD incient. You can sum it up by stating that Yosuke caused a scene with Chie. That's it. The DVD has no relevence to the situation. What mattered there wasn't that Yosuke returned the DVDs, it was that the walk home was interrupted by Yosuke. Yes, its used a a pretext for Chie to come the next day, but that doesn't matter. The reader doesn't need to know that. They just need to know Chie came with them. ∞ 陣  内  Jinnai  23:58, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The context of the DVD is a whole 13 words extra. I'm trying not to be that verbose, but I believe the reason why Chie's going with them is somewhat important, and it's one of the earliest scenes from the game.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 00:06, 27 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Indivisually, 13 words is not that much. However, the summary is scattered with those items. The summary does need to stay short. Yes, it might still be long, but we don't need to add extra items here. Why is it your opinion that its so important to mention the DVD incident is such detail when we do have a guideline (MOS-TV) which is routinely followed) saying to keep summaries short. What does adding the extra about the DVD give that is essential to understanding the work as a whole or even the episode? That needs to be applied to everything. So okay, character introductions are an argument for noting them, but not for going into detail. ∞ 陣  内  Jinnai  00:20, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * So it can be rewritten, again.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 00:22, 27 December 2011 (UTC)


 * here is an example of what I mean. Note that I removed the descriptor of the limo - that would be classified as OR as it is assigning a personal description of the imo. I rephrased much of the description to shorten. I removed the part about the other dimension - having just watched the episode, i don't recall him mentioning that and the idea can be gotten through context anyway. I also removed the part about Margret saying good luck. Noting that is giving undue weight to that line. It doesn't really have any lasting significance. In all I was able to remove ~60 characters from those small changes. That's why I'm saying its verbose. ∞ 陣  内  Jinnai  21:11, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * He says something like "between dreams and reality, mind and matter". And we can use knowledge from the video games to say what the Velvet Room is, I believe.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 21:57, 27 December 2011 (UTC)


 * If it's sourced, yes. ∞ 陣  内  Jinnai  04:18, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Why do I need a source to say that Igor said something in the first minute of the show? The show itself is good enough for that source.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 05:34, 28 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Because this is an article about the anime, not the video game. It is not like citing plot elements in the main article. WAF's exemption only applied to plot sections and only when referencing the martial the article itself is about. ∞ 陣  内  Jinnai  08:13, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Interview
The official site has a three-page an interview with the staff from the series. It may help to improve this article and/or Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4, but sadly it's all in Japanese.Tintor2 (talk) 12:57, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

-like
Do not use that suffix. It is a WP:red flag for WP:OR and will require citations because it is saying its not something, just similar to it, resembling it, etc. Please rephase anything with that suffix in it in the future. ∞ 陣  内  Jinnai  17:45, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Cutting down
But yeah, seriously guys. You don't really seem to grasp the concept of 'summaries'. You should really try and limit episode descriptions to a single paragraph. There are plenty of fan wikis available if you want to go into detail. Also, you should take into account what other episode lists look like (including those based on games) and avoid using unneccesary elements that elongate the article and its index box more than it needs to. Things such as subcategories, infoboxes, and those awkward yellow lines ugh. (And before you get on my case on how the main article isn't technically using the right infobox, it's cos the anime box is more suited to mixed media from Japan which accomodates manga, anime and videogames). Wonchop (talk) 00:30, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The summaries I have written are there to cut down from. And it does not matter what other episode lists are like. This is what we have here. The "subcategories" are there for ease of editing. The infobox is there because this is an article on a TV series and the infobox on the video game article (which should not have become the anime type infobox and has since been switched back) does not cover what's in this article. The SMTP4 page should use the video game infobox because it is a video game. All other video games that have had anime or manga use the video game version. A video game article should only have the anime template if the anime came first. And finally the yellow lines are part of the bloody episode list template. I've reverted your changes, again, because you've done nothing to fix the article in line with the standing consensus on this page.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 01:35, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
 * That sounds less convenient and more like being a stubborn bottomhole, to use the kindest vocabulary I have at my disposal. Remember, these articles are for the readers first and the editors second. Readers shouldn't have to put with unneccessarily large content tables just cos the editors can't handle a few precious seconds of scrolling. Likewise, your argument of game infobox vs anime infobox is also coming off as pigheaded. Even if it's not technically the correct one, the anime infobox caters a lot more for other media such as manga, anime and additional games and is more suited for a game that is particularly multimedia focused as Persona 4 (other examples include Steins;Gate, School Days, etc). Oh, and your argument about the yellow lines is just lame as they are an optional element. ps. It probably wasn't neccessary to split the article (whoever was responsible), as it's pretty much the same as the episode list, just split over two articles, and is pretty unneccessary.Wonchop (talk) 16:27, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You've done nothing to improve the article other than remove a template which actually has some sort of use, while using an incorrect template on another page just to justify removing it from this one. Honestly, it appears the other articles you mentioned probably only use the animanga template is because you had a hand in editing them (Steins;Gate). It is not the standard practice and you were the only one to make this change. And also there is no proscription against having had the infobox on this page (now made a standalone article to cut down on length). And the option to add color is there because we can use it. It is designed to separate seasons apart, but it doesn't matter. And I have written these summaries so long because frankly I can't seem to decide what needs to be cut out to save length. And the contents make for ease of editing by allowing the editor to go section-by-section to edit, rather than going through the whole list (which is unfortunately bloated because I am so verbose, but nothing is stopping you from copyediting). The article is now split so this is exclusively an episode list, while Persona 4: The Animation deals with all of the content normally fund on the article about the program itself (the production details, the DVD releases, the soundtrack information), as it is clear it is notable on its own to be a standalone article, rather than an article smanged into an episode list.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 18:10, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

odd layout, needs serious fixing
I noticed some odd things about this list. For one, there is a table of content despite being a table. The summaries are far too long. And the opening post uses subjective words such as "unique". I also noticed user:Ryulong is familiar with the series, which makes it difficult for him with us not-so-familiar editors. However, that shouldnt excuse excess of plot detail, the whole point is to get key details and summarize the episode, not guide the reader into the full story.

We need to collaborate and compromise. If Ryulong allows editors to summarize the plot, then those editors should allow Ryulong to tweak it to whatever Ryulong believes is necessary to have in the summary. But only if its "tweaking" and not "mass overhaul". I personally believe its a fair compromise and has worked well in the past.

And this will lead the odd table of content to be unnecessary. Lack of references is also an issue but I dont think it will be too difficult to find.Lucia Black (talk) 21:29, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll be attending to this article this month. The summaries need some consistency which I can bring to the table. Assistance is welcome, I've been thinking of merging it with Persona 4: The Animation rather than having a separate list class article. Any thoughts?  Talk 21:37, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I think we should wait for proper sourcing before merge. I dont think the main article has had a chance to properly source and expanded. Other than that ill help any way I can.Lucia Black (talk) 21:46, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I did recently removed the subheaders and added an 'overly detailed' notice, but Ryulong seems to have reverted it back with no explanation. The subheaders are just unneccessary and do nothing more than bulk up the article and imply we're too dumb to scroll down a page. Also, we don't really need to have Persona 4: The Animation and List of Persona 4: The Animation episodes as seperate articles. Wonchop (talk) 10:31, 10 September 2013 (UTC)


 * By the way guys, I don't want to jump in the middle of this edit squabble so I'll just put this here. There's some new airdates to note, which probably deserve a mention here as well. >> KirtZ Message 04:51, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The show finished its broadcast. We don't really need to mention reruns. The sections are removed, Wonchop, so I don't see the problem. And It's better that the pages are separate for now. The anime is notable on its own and the episode list is currently too long.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 06:41, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It's mainly too long because the descriptions are overly detailed. At the very least, we don't need dividing lines for the Velvet Room scenes. Unless thay have any significance to the episode's plot, they probably don't even need mentioning half of the time, since they generally just follow the same pattern of 'cryptic advice followed by new card'. Considering many anime with multiple seasons, such as Hidamari Sketch and A Certain Scientific Railgun have multiple seasons all listed together, I don't think a listing for a two cour anime is too long. As for the issue of seperate articles, there are ways to prevent the need for that. For example, the soundtrack listings for both the games and anime could potentially be moved to a List of Megami Tensei albums article to save room. Wonchop (talk) 14:02, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * So summarize it. I've asked you to do that multiple times when it was on air and I was writing these things.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 14:50, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I think Lucia Black and KirtZJ have expressed interest in that. Might be worth giving them a shout. Wonchop (talk) 19:27, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought I would have had the time to summarize this series, but due to various circumstances I wasn't able to and probably not in the foreseeable future. In addition as you might have noticed, I have a backlog of pages I need to work on, so unfortunately my hands are tied at the moment. >> KirtZ Message 22:00, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

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