Talk:List of Supernatural and The Winchesters characters/Archive 1

Castiel
I don't know if it would be complient with wikipedia's policies, but Eric Kripke stated in one interview that if he did bring angels into the show's mythology, that it would be a "down and dirty faction". I thought that might be worth mentioning and linking too, but I don't know if it would vear into fan speculation as to Castiel's motives.--24.255.171.220 (talk) 12:04, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, what has been happening on the show matches up with that. Castiel and other angels aren't guardians out there saving people, they're soldiers of God fighting evil. Ophois (talk) 18:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually I figured when he said "down and dirty" he meant "corrupt and ammoral". But looking back on his original quote, the context doesn't indicate that, so never mind.--24.255.171.220 (talk) 21:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think we should have much more real world information on him, either on his own page or in the minor character page. Usually new characters arn't received very well but Castiel has been received very well by critics. Rekija (talk) 00:57, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll try and get to it eventually, but if anyone else wants to incorporate that, then this article has some good stuff. Ophois (talk) 06:24, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Castiel to be merged
Since the article of Castiel fails notability, I propose we merge it in here. -- Magioladitis (talk) 15:05, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Outside of Dean Winchester's ascent from Hell (And even the largest part of this) and Sam's use of his demonic power 9which itself has been a recurring element since Season 1) most of the entire season 4 plot arc hinges on and around Castiel. He doesn't fail notability so far as the show is concerned. He's a major plot element and merits a page. 71.82.86.115 (talk) 05:35, 1 November 2008 (UTC) CodyM

I am talking of the article as it's written right now. Do you have any references to the character in any media? Any interview of the actor? We need real world elements to make an article. In some shows, it is possible that no spinoff articles have enough notability. Check WP:FICTION. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:13, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Hellen Harvele to be merged
Since the article of Hellen Harvele fails notability, I propose we merge it in here. -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:42, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

It's Ellen and per the reasons above. No. 71.82.86.115 (talk) 05:36, 1 November 2008 (UTC) CodyM


 * Should we delete it then? -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:07, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd be fine with a merge.Ophois (talk) 18:21, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I am also proposing the merging of Bella Talbot for the same reason. I think we can create a good List of characters instead of having individual articles for each character. -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:04, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The Ellen article could possibly be merged, but I think the Bela article should probably remain, as she was fairly important to the main arc of the show. The main problem with merging the Ellen article now is that it's still possible she could reappear as a character and become more important. Rreagan007 (talk) 18:27, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Proposed page move/rename
Shouldn't this page be moved to simple Characters of Supernatural to more readily comply with Wikipedia standards? Therein it could outline all characters on the show, with links to individual articles that regard characters of enough notability to garner their own pages. hornoir (talk) 12:39, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. I think it should be similar to the List of characters in Heroes page. Ophois (talk) 06:44, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I agee. The page should be moved. It's an article, not a list. See Characters of Smallville. A "List of characters" looks like List of characters in The Simpsons. I'm going to move the page. Rreagan007 (talk) 14:47, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Character ordering
The character sub-headings should be arranged in order of importance, not alphabetical. First off, this is an article not a list. In the same way that the main headings ("The Winchesters", "Hunters", "Angels", "Demons", "Azazel's special children", and "Other recurring characters") are arranged by order of importance to the show, the sub-headings within those should also be arranged by order of importance. Secondly, your statement that "every character page has characters in abc order" is demonstrably incorrect. See: And there are many other character articles (as well as many character lists) that do not have characters presented alphabetically. This brings us to your statement that "it makes no sense to list them [any way other than alphabetical]". This is also an incorrect assumption. If it made no sense to do it any other way than abc, then why do so many other character pages do it another way? Because less important characters are built around the more important characters, and it therefore makes perfect sense to start with the most important characters and work your way out from there. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:11, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Characters of Final Fantasy VIII (a featured article),
 * Characters of Carnivàle (a featured article),
 * Characters of Kingdom Hearts (a featured article),
 * Characters of Smallville (a good article),
 * Characters of Halo (a good article),
 * Characters of Myst (a good article).


 * I agree. Also, there are two different ways to present characters in articles: lists (List of characters in ...) and articles (Characters of ...). Lists can be ordered in different ways, but articles should definitely be in order of importance. BOVINEBOY 2008 02:16, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I apologize. Most of the character articles I've seen do ABC, and I didn't recall any not doing ABC order. Personally, it doesn't make sense to me to not do it non-ABC. Main characters are separated from the recurring/minor characters in most if not all I've seen, so it usually is in ABC order. Ophois (talk) 02:31, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * How about we change Winchesters section to main characters, and move Mary and John to the hunters section? Castiel would be added if he is credited as a star 5th season. Ophois (talk) 02:32, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Trickster vs Gabriel
Ok I know this is still very fresh, but now that we know his real name and identity as an angel and not a trickster, I think it's important to note that prominently in the section heading. Just like we now usually refer to "The Yellow-Eyed Demon" as Azazel. And it seems pretty obvious that from now on in the series they will be referring to this character as Gabriel and not as the Trickster (since he isn't even a trickster). Rreagan007 (talk) 18:17, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * True, I forgot that we use Azazel rather than Yellow-Eyed Demon. I was thinking of other articles like Sylar, but I agree with you now. Ophois (talk) 18:21, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Joshua
The section on this character was removed from the Angels heading. Should it be added back in? Canez (talk) 10:19, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Only important characters are collected in the list. Ω  pho  is  17:31, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Lilith's choice of hosts
I don't want to start an edit war over this, so I have opened a discussion. Lilith uses children in the third season as a destroyer of children, and women in fourth season as a seducer of men. Stating in the first paragraph that she chooses one over the other is incorrect. Ω pho  is  16:07, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Building an article for Lisa
I'm building an article for Lisa Braeden at User:Fireheart14/Lisa Braeden and could really use some help with Behind the scenes information and such (honestly I have no idea where to look). I thought the character might merit a page since she's appeared in nine episodes and has had a fairly significant role as of late. -Fireheart14 (talk) 22:33, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Crowley

 * Is he really a demon? His eyes have never turned black in any episode. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.110.152 (talk) 01:09, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes he is a demon. While his eyes didn't turn black, they did turn red(since he was a crossroads demon)in the 2nd episode of season 8(What's Up, Tiger Mommy?)while he possessed Mrs. Tran. Speaking of Crowley, why doesn't he have a full page, while people like Bela do? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.22.84.45 (talk) 23:39, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Prophets
Is there any explanation why Prophet Chuck is protected by an archangel but Prophet Kevin is not? In fact, Kevin is repeatedly kidnapped and tortured while anyone threatening Chuck with harm was killed by the archangel.
 * Probably because all of the archangels are either dead or locked in hell. Rreagan007 (talk) 03:33, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Crowley
Does Crowley merit his own page? I mean, he's appeared in more episodes than Ruby has, there's a ton of positive reception toward him (at least up until Season 8 or so--I'm not sure if he's that beloved anymore or if he's a "Love to Hate" type), and the actor has been to so many conventions that there must be stuff for a Characterization/Development section (like how Shepard says that Crowley doesn't care about sexual orientation, he just likes making people uncomfortable).--50.89.225.132 (talk) 14:48, 16 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I&#8217;d concur with the suggestion that Crowley is notable enough for his own page. allixpeeke (talk) 22:06, 5 November 2013 (UTC)


 * P. S. Upon doing a quick search, I discovered that Crowley already has his own article.  allixpeeke (talk) 23:06, 5 November 2013 (UTC)


 * The article as of now is just what happened in the series. It has no real-world information, which is a requirement for articles. I have made it a redirect until an article can be done. Ω  pho  is  01:29, 6 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. I encourage someone to find all the details requisite for turning Crowley (Supernatural) into a proper article.  allixpeeke (talk) 18:24, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Other characters that might now also merit having their own pages

 * Lucifer
 * Next to Castiel, Lucifer is probably the most important angel in the series. If it were not for him, daemons would not even exist, and because of him, an apocalypse nearly began.  He&#8217;s also got a rather lengthy character description, larger than any other angel on the list.


 * Charlie Bradbury
 * This one might be a bit of a stretch, since she has only been in a handful of episodes, but because her character description is so long, it might merit its own page, too.

Discuss. allixpeeke (talk) 22:45, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Length of in-universe information does not merit an article. An article should or should not exist based on the amount of real-world production information available. The solution to the above lengths is probably to just trim down the excess details for those characters. Ω pho  is  01:40, 6 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Then what is the criteria for spinning off a subsection into a separate article? Why should Alistair have a separate article but not Crowley, who has been a recurring character for several years or Charlie who has made multiple appearances? Liz  Read! Talk! 15:30, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Because nobody has yet to write an article using third-party sources. All attempts so far have just been plot summaries. I plan to eventually get to them, but there are many characters and much information to look through. Ω  pho  is  17:30, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

True, there is alot of work for those characters. These are the five characters I think deserve a page the most if anyone gets around to it; Crowley, Mary, Kevin, Charlie and Jody. Buffyfan123 (talk) 13:48, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

I suggest we merge Dick Roman and Dick Roman
I suggest we merge Dick Roman and Dick Roman. allixpeeke (talk) 04:44, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Donna Hanscum
Should the character really be listed as a hunter when it was only at the end of her last appearance that she was implied to even start training as one? The majority of her appearances have been as a civilian, so her current listing seems misleading.--AnnviRosson (talk) 06:01, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Claire Novak
I added Claire under other humans (I mean she's obviously not a hunter.) She's been in 3 episodes (another one soon, and I hope more!) She really deserves a spot in the list, don't you think? In other news, it does frustrate me a bit that the article is said to be too detailed. Not because I disagree, but because I just don't have the heart to see this article condensed! Supernatural is unique in that it has an insane number of supporting characters so really, if someone is coming to this page, they're looking to read about specific characters, not just browsing, and I think it's worth it to give them thorough descriptions, and summaries of their plots. --mochafreez (talk) 18:46, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Cast section
For the Cast section on this page, what is our criteria for Guest and our criteria for Recurring?--AnnviRosson (talk) 21:44, 3 June 2015 (UTC) I'm not sure how Wikipedia has it, but I always thought a recurring character was 3 or more episodes in a given season, and a guest is 1 or 2 episodes in a given season. But really its up to the fans to decide how they see it, theres no rules or laws on how you define it. Buffyfan123 (talk) 04:00, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm wondering this, too. I was told on the Pretty Little Liars character page that a recurring is 5 or more but I've seen a lot of places list 3 or more. I think it'd be okay to do three or more for recurring until further proof? Scream4man (talk) 23:09, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

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Merger proposal - Alastair, Lilith, and Uriel
Merging some of the info and redirecting the following non-main minor characters of Alastair, Lilith, and Uriel into Characters of Supernatural seems appropriate: A few other characters have standalone articles that are borderline, for example: but those seem more likely to be controversial, so they are not included in this proposal. Creation of seperate articles on characters such as: would be more appropriate assuming proper sourcing. — Godsy (TALK CONT ) 22:43, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Alastair - 5 episodes over 2 seasons as a guest
 * Lilith - 5 episodes over 2 seasons as a guest
 * Uriel - 5 episodes over 2 seasons as a guest
 * Zachariah - 7 episodes over 2 seasons, 1 as recurring, 1 as guest
 * Anna Milton - 6 episodes over 2 seasons, 1 as recurring and 1 as guest
 * Jo Harvelle - 7 episodes over 3 seasons as a guest
 * Kevin Tran - 15 episodes over 3 seasons, 2 as guest, 1 as recurring
 * Jody Mills - 12 episodes over 6 seasons as a guest
 * Rowena - 14 episodes over 2 seasons as recurring
 * Metatron - 13 episodes over 4 seasons, 3 as guest, 1 as recurring
 * Lucifer (currently a redirect) - 11 episodes over 3 seasons, 2 as guest, 1 as recurring
 * I agree with all of the above. Apriestofgix (talk) 23:59, 19 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Strong keep for all three. For the record, I'm not a fan and have never watched Supernatural, but this is not a merger proposal based on policy or even how notability on Wikipedia works. Whether characters are minor or main have absolutely no bearing on whether they deserve articles or not. Instead, this is dependent on the amount of coverage in third-party, reliable sources, which Alastair, Lilith, and Uriel all have plenty of - thus meeting all relevant Wikipedia guidelines. Feel free to create character articles for those you proposed, but the burden to prove their notability lies with you. Satellizer   (´ ･ ω ･ `)  08:22, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose – All three seem to have plenty of coverage and sourcing. Episode count alone has never been a criterion for having a separate article. nyuszika7h (talk) 21:44, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Katie Cassidy and star billing
Recently seeing a lot of edit warring over whether other actors for Ruby and LIlith should be listed in the Main. The actors are the ones who are getting the star/recurring/guest billing, not their characters. So Katie Cassidy should be in Main for her star billing in season 3 (confirmed in season 3 opener and season 3 finale, and likely some episodes in between), but the role listed there should only be for Ruby. In the season 3 finale, she briefly portrays Lilith but as a result of possessing Ruby's body. This doesn't mean she should suddenly be listed for Lilith as with Jared being listed for portraying Lucifer or other characters for an episode or two. Similarly Genevieve and other portrayers of Ruby or LIlith don't get grouped in Main because their character was a main. They stay in recurring or guest as they are billed. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 23:05, 18 October 2016 (UTC)


 * I would hardly call it edit warring, as it was very minimal. However, I do think Lilith should be on the table. You can't only put Ruby because that is misinformation. Although brief, Katie Cassidy received star billing for her roles as Ruby AND Lilith. I also think that the list was better before. you do have a point, but it is very confusing to have the same character is multiple places. if someone sees the table they would that lilith only appeared in season 3 and was a main character. However, if you include the other actors who portrayed the character there would be much less confusion. I also think the table should be reversed, and focused on characters instead of cast. After all, the page is called "Characters of Supernatural" not "Cast of Supernatural". Oh, and Ruby was revealed to be an antagonist all along, so it is more appropriate for her to be there.Forsaken11 (talk) 23:50, 18 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Ruby has the footnote about others who portray her anyway. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 00:31, 19 October 2016 (UTC)


 * I would combine Recurring and Antagonists, as many of the characters flip-flop throughout the season. Then there needs to be a strict criteria as to who is considered recurring or guest.  There's no "also starring" billing in the opening credits as with List of The Walking Dead (TV series) characters, so designating recurring that way doesn't work. Does recurring for the season mean more than one episode?  Do we even need this extra characters table or is it better just to get to the characters themselves?  I'd also get rid of episode counts. Wikipedia is not an attendance record where we need to note when an actor misses an episode.  AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 00:31, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

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Episode Counts
I think they should be removed. There is no need for them in a cast table and the counts are really inaccurate, due to it bein unclear in some episodes whther they appear or not. The tables would be a lot neater if they were organized based on when they first appear, like the main cast table. The recurring and antagonists tables are very messy and unorganized with the whole episode counts ordeal. I am willing to reorganize the tables and fix the mistakes if we remove the episode counts. Does anyone agree? Also, recurring characters in a season are generally considered characters that apear 3+ times. Otherwise, they are guests. Forsaken11 (talk) 21:56, 22 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, totally agree. It would fit the MOS standards which say list in order of first appearance or first recurring billing. The recurring and antagonists should be merged, since there are plenty of characters that flip-flop. As for number of appearances to make the list, it should be characters that have recurred within a season. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 22:53, 22 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for cleaning up the list. It's a lot clearer who starts appearing in which season. I guess the antagonists could stay separate for now. That probably needs more discussion. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 00:11, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Lucifer
We should create a page for Lucifer like we did Zachariah and Meg since he was such a significant character and appeared so many different times. We have lesser enemies with full pages so we should do the same for him.--32.214.195.155 (talk) 17:14, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Okay, considering Luci is now a main character we have to create a page for him!!!--32.214.195.155 (talk) 17:51, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Rowena, Mary and Jody getting separate article pages

 * Pages for these three should happen. Jody if she get's a spin-off obviously is a lock 100%. Mary is a big character and resurrected, that I feel she should get a page or should have gotten one already, surprises me greately. Even Rowena has been a major recurring character for 3 seasons. They all have been significant in the show for many seasons and I propose all three get pages. Anyone agree? Buffyfan123 (talk) November 4, 2017


 * I would wait until the spin-off show is confirmed and released. Also check if they are notable characters outside the Supernatural world. If there's sufficient notability and analysis of the character there then consider it. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 15:41, 4 November 2017 (UTC)