Talk:List of ancient Greek tyrants/Archive 1

This is the talk page for the article when it was at "List of tyrants"

Votes for deletion
For a June 2005 deletion debate over this page see Votes for deletion/List of tyrants

Page creation
I have created this list to move the modern POV out of the definitions of Tyrant and Tyrannicide and to create a list of ancient Tyrants. To be listed here they ought to meet the definition of Tyrant as defined on the Tyrant page.

To be included on the Tyrannicide page they will have to appear in this list and have been killed for the common good. (In rocky horror movie parlance "A mercy killing" Philip Baird Shearer 18:20, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * I have recreated this page after the contents was moved to a new page name of List of ancient Greek tyrants, because the reason for creating it has not gone away and in the case of Tyrannicide to quote Brecht "The bitch that bred him is in heat again." (The Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui) --Philip Baird Shearer 11:41, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

20th and 21st century
This list is bound to be POV but let's try to get some consensus over it. I have just moved the names from the Tyrant page and personally prefer the classical definition for the modern period as well. Philip Baird Shearer 18:20, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What makes a term POV? The fact that it is pejorative?

 * The terms tyrant and dictator were non-pejorative in classical times. Are they today?
 * Many people have used the term democracy in a pejorative sense. Do most of us today?
 * The War between the States, or American Civil War, was fought because some approved of slavery and others detested it. Note that the more neutral term has no referent in wikipedia.
 * That's a rather sweeping oversimplification.

It's fine to have an open mind, but it shouldn't be so open that everything falls out of it. Too Old 17:11, 2005 Jun 10 (UTC)
 * The same person may be termed leader, head of state, president for life, autocrat, oppressor, usurper, dictator, or tyrant, depending on the speaker. Is any of these terms inherently preferable to all others in all cases?  All of them demonstrate a point of view, exhibiting various degrees of approval or disapproval.  Can one avoid a point of view?
 * "I am a freedom fighter, you are a guerrilla, he is a terrorist." Which is the neutral term?

I cut the list of modern tyrants until some decision is reached as to how or if they can be included. - SimonP 20:30, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)

Moved text

The term now carries connotations of a cruel despot who places their own interests or the interests of a small oligarchy over the best interests of the general population of the state over which they govern.


 * Adolf Hitler
 * Joseph Stalin
 * Idi Amin
 * Pol Pot
 * Saddam Hussein
 * Robert Mugabe
 * Kim Jong Il

End moved text


 * Anyone interested in keeping this list NPOV, please keep an eye on Tyrannicide, where I have just removed a list similar to the modern tyrants where the list has been re-inserted once to date. It would be nice to add some to the Tyrannicide article from those in this list who were assassinated. Philip Baird Shearer 19:01, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

this list should be organised cronologicly