Talk:List of life peerages

Old discussions
Should this be combined with List of life peers ? FZ 00:03, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Also, there's overlap with List of life baronies. &mdash;Ashley Y 22:28, 2004 Sep 30 (UTC)

I've redirected both pages here, as nothing linked to them. I'll produce an exception report shortly of the differences between the three... sjorford 12:54, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Creation dates not matching

List of Life Peerages and List of life baronies match on all creation dates, but List of life peers differs in a few cases:
 * Baron Rhodes - 14/09/64 (LoLP) or 12/09/64 (Lolp)
 * Baron Murray of Newhaven - 17/09/64 or 16/09/64
 * Baron Redcliffe-Maud - 06/07/67 or 07/07/67
 * Baroness Llewelyn-Davies of Hastoe - 29/08/67 or 27/08/67
 * Baron Noel-Baker - 22/07/77 or 20/07/77
 * Baron Stevens of Ludgate - 27/03/87 or 03/03/87
 * Baroness Blatch - 07/04/87 or 04/07/87
 * Baron Sainsbury of Preston Candover - 31/01/89 or 31/07/89


 * Names not matching

The following names are different on this page (shown first) and on List of life peers:
 * Florence Gertrude Horsbrugh (Baroness Horsbrugh) - Florence Gertrude Horsburgh (Baroness Horsburgh) - ok
 * Peter Allan Renshaw Blaker (Baron Blaker) - Peter Allen Renshaw Blaker
 * John Primatt Redcliffe Redcliffe-Maud (Baron Redcliffe-Maud) - John Primatt Redcliffe Maud
 * Annie Patricia Llewelyn-Davies (Baroness Llewelyn-Davies of Hastoe) - Anne Patricia Llewelyn-Davies
 * William Hartley Shawcross (Baron Shawcross) - Hartley William Shawcross
 * Austin Richard William Low, 1st Baron Aldington (Baron Low) - Toby Austin Richard William Low
 * Barbara Frances Wright (Baroness Wootton of Abinger) - Barbara Frances Wootton Wright
 * Katharine Elliot (Baroness Elliot of Harwood) - Katherine Elliot
 * Eric Cyril Boyd Edwards (Baron Chelmer) - Eric Cecil Boyd Edwards
 * Arthur Gwynne Jones (Baron Chalfont) - Alun Arthur Gwynne Jones
 * Helen Violet Bonham Carter (Baroness Asquith of Yarnbury) - Helen Violet Bonham-Carter
 * Alma Birk (Baroness Birk) - Alma Lillian Birk
 * Charles James Garnsworthy (Baron Garnsworthy) - Charles William Garnsworthy
 * Charles George Percy Smith (Baron Delacourt-Smith) - Charles George Percy Delacourt-Smith
 * Laurence Norman Helsby (Baron Helsby) - Lawrence Norman Helsby
 * Donald Gresham Stokes (Baron Stokes) - Donald Graham Stokes
 * John Wheatley (Baron Wheatley) - John Thomas Wheatley
 * Charles Hector Fitzroy Maclean (Baron Maclean) - Charles Hector Fitz Roy Maclean
 * Horace Maybray Maybray-King (Baron Maybray-King) - Horace Maybray King
 * Victor Grayson Hardie Feather (Baron Feather) - Victor Grayson Hardy Feather
 * Goronwy Owen Goronwy-Roberts (Baron Goronwy-Roberts) - Goronwy Owen Roberts
 * Michael Antony Cristobal Noble (Baron Glenkinglas) - Michael Anthony Christobal Noble
 * Robert Grant Grant-Ferris (Baron Harvington) - Robert Grant-Ferris
 * Nicholas Kaldor (Baron Kaldor) - Miklos Kaldor
 * Hugh Kinsman Cudlipp (Baron Cudlipp) - Hugh Kusman Cudlipp
 * Braham Jack Dennis Lyons (Baron Lyons of Brighton) - Dennis Lyons
 * Lew Grade (Baron Grade) - Louis Winogradsky
 * Joseph Kagan (Baron Kagan) - Joseph Kaganas
 * Henry Reginall Underhill (Baron Underhill) - Henry Reginald Underhill
 * Thomas Gray Boardman (Baron Boardman) - Thomas Grey Boardman
 * John John-Mackie (Baron John-Mackie) - John Mackie
 * Peter Thomas Bauer (Baron Bauer) - Peter Tomas Bauer
 * James Hector Northey (Hamish) Gray (Baron Gray of Contin) - James Hector Northey Gray
 * Derek Colclough Walker-Smith (Baron Broxbourne) - Derek Colcough Walker-Smith
 * Gloria Hooper (Baroness Hooper) - Gloria Dorothy Hooper
 * Robert Joseph Mellish (Baron Mellish) - Robert John Mellish
 * Aubrey Geoffrey Frederick Rippon (Baron Rippon of Hexham) - Aubrey Geoffrey Francis Rippon
 * John Donkin Dormand (Baron Dormand of Easington) - John Donkins Dormand
 * Norman Antony Francis St John-Stevas (Baron St John of Fawsley) - Norman Anthony Francis St John-Stevas
 * Daphne Margaret Sybil Dsire Park (Baroness Park of Monmouth) - Daphne Margaret Sybil Desirée Park
 * Stanley Clinton Clinton-Davis (Baron Clinton-Davis) - Stanley Clinton Davis
 * Lydia Selina Dunn (Baroness Dunn) - Lydia Selena Dunn
 * Geoffrey Leonard Cheshire (Baron Cheshire) - George Leonard Cheshire
 * Merlyn Merlyn-Rees (Baron Merlyn-Rees) - Merlyn Rees
 * Julian Amery (Baron Amery of Lustleigh) - Harold Julian Amery
 * Dafydd Elis Elis-Thomas (Baron Elis-Thomas) - Dafydd Elis Thomas
 * Ralf Dahrendorf (Baron Dahrendorf) - Ralf Gustav Dahrendorf
 * Alfred Dubs (Baron Dubs) - Alfred Max Dubs
 * Tom McNally (Baron McNally) - Thomas McNally
 * Helene Valerie Hayman (Baroness Hayman) - Hélène Valerie Hayman
 * John Alderdice (Baron Alderdice) - John Thomas Alderdice
 * David Russell Russell-Johnston (Baron Russell-Johnston) - David Russell Johnston
 * Paul Bertrand Hamlyn (Baron Hamlyn) - Paul Hamlyn
 * Alexander James Trotman (Baron Trotman) - Alexander Trotman
 * Bhikhu Chotalal Parekh (Baron Parekh) - Bhikhu Chhotalal Parekh
 * Sheila Valerie Masters (Baroness Noakes) - Sheila Valerie Noakes
 * Charles Ronald Llewelyn Guthrie (Baron Guthrie of Craigiebank) - Charles Ronald Llewellyn Guthrie
 * Elspeth Rosamund Morton Howe (Baroness Howe of Idlicote) - Elspeth Rosamond Morton Howe
 * Eric John Francis James (Baron James of Rusholme) - Eric Francis James
 * Wilfred Banks Duncan Brown (Baron Brown) - Wilfrid Banks Duncan Brown
 * Robert Platt (Baron Platt) - Richard Platt
 * George Fielden MacLeod (Baron MacLeod of Fuinary) - George MacLeod
 * Susan Lilian Primrose Cunliffe-Lister, Baroness Masham (Baroness Masham of Ilton) - Susan Lillian Primrose Cunliffe-Lister
 * Gwilym Elfed Davies (Baron Davies of Penrhys) - Gwilyn Elfed Davies
 * Morrice James (Baron Saint Brides) - John Morrice Cairns James
 * Jeremy Nicolas Hutchinson (Baron Hutchinson of Lullington) - Jeremy Nicholas St. John Hutchinson
 * Edwin Rodney Smith (Baron Smith) - Rodney Smith
 * Mark Raymond Bonham Carter (Baron Bonham-Carter) - Mark Raymond Bonham-Carter
 * Brenda Dean (Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde) - Brenda McDowall
 * Meta Ramsay (Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale) - Margaret Mildred Ramsay
 * Narendra Babubhai Patel (Baron Patel) - Narendra Badubhai Patel

The data on this page is from this page, which is one of the most accurate lists available on the internet, so I'd be inclined to trust the dates given here. Many of the surname anomalies result from people having to change their name from Forename Surname to Forename Forename-Surname in order to be created Baron Forename-Surname, changes which don't seem to be reflected in the other list. In most cases, though, where one list gives more names than the other, the version with more names seems more likely to be accurate. Thus this list's Alma Birk is probably incorrect given that the other list has her as Alma Lillian Birk. Proteus (Talk) 17:37, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I've struck out the Forename Forename-Surname cases, as nobody would actually refer to "John Mackie" as "John John-Mackie". sjorford 14:00, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

On Frederic Seebohm
Frederic Seebohm (1833-1912) was a British economic historian. The Frederic Seebohn of April, 1972, in this article cannot be the same person, ergo, a distinguishing title ought to be produced for him. I'm unfamiliar with the proper wordage, so someone who knows of English royalty ought to step in and fix the name of the 1972 man. GhostofSuperslum 05:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I have successfully produced Frederic Seebohm (1833-1912). Please re-title the Frederic Seebohm in this article. Gratias.  GhostofSuperslum 06:36, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I have renamed him Frederic Seebohm (Life peer) to separate him from Frederic Seebohm economic historian. That may suffice. GhostofSuperslum 00:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Split
Propose that this page be split into pages based on the Prime Minister in office in order to reduce page size and improve usability. Mbisanz (talk) 07:53, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * With the page at 178kb, I would think that would be a brilliant idea in lieu of any other suggestions. It really looks like it should just happen. -- billinghurst (talk) 05:43, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Should be split, but perhaps not one page per PM. How about three pages: pre-Thatcher; Thatcher and Major; and Blair and Brown. That would give three roughly equal pages.  J Rawle  (Talk) 12:00, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That gets my vote, per PM would become messy looking for peers around the time of a change of power. Now all we need is someone to be bold :) AllsoulsDay (talk) 16:50, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I'm happy to do this, but what should be the titles of the new pages? We could have "List of life peerages created pre-1979", except that Callaghan created some in 1979. "List of life peerages pre-Thatcher"? "List of life peerages under Thatcher and Major"? "List of life peerages created post-1997 election"? It's taken long enough to decide to split the page, so we may as well spend some time getting the page names right!  J Rawle  (Talk) 21:15, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm options seems to be 1958-June 1979, June 1979-97 97-Present or 1958-Callaghan, Thatcher-Major and Blair-Brown. The first has the advantage of giving you clear dates the latter perhaps easier for people to associate with parties/governments. Probably the latter is better AllsoulsDay (talk) 09:30, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I endorse "Pre Thatcher", "Thatcher Major" and "Blair Brown" rather than dates. Kittybrewster  &#9742;  11:35, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * We all seem to be in agreement about that. But the question is, what should the exact wording of the page titles be? I don't think "List of pre-Thatcher life peerages" is appropriate.  J Rawle  (Talk) 18:59, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That's why I gave the option of dates as they seemed an easier name format ;) ...Square one AllsoulsDay (talk) 16:58, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I went on ahead and Split the article into 13 pages. It was not all that hard to do, But it took me a few hours to get the project done. I hope you all like what I have done. Let me know if you like me to changed something. -- David ' - (Wikipedia Vandal Fighter)''. 21:09, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Janet Cohen
There's an incorrect link on this page to an entry for a different Janet Cohen - an American woman. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.109.97.62 (talk) 13:11, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Peter Mandelson
Why "of Hendon in the City of London"? Surely "of Hendon in the London Borough of Barnet".--Oxonian2006 (talk) 15:38, 4 October 2008 (UTC)


 * There is no source for that title. I left the editor who added it a message yesterday and have had no reply. Therefore I've removed both Mandelson and Judge as neither has yet been gazetted so should not be on the list anyway. In theory, he may even choose to become something other than Lord Mandelson.  J Rawle  (Talk) 16:20, 4 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I've added an extra subsection detailing new (or possible new) peers whose titles have not yet been created, including two crossbenchers announced by the Appointments Commission last week.  J Rawle  (Talk) 16:38, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

New Life Peers
The following were given Life Peerages by the House of Lords Appointments Commission. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kittybrewster (talk • contribs) 10:52, 6 February 2010
 * Sir Michael Bichard, KCB, Chair of the Design Council
 * Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson, DBE, Paralympian
 * Tony Hall, CBE, Chief Executive of the Royal Opera House
 * Professor Ajay Kakkar, FRCS, Surgeon & Medical Researcher

Accidental remerge?
This aricle was split into several separate articles in August 2009 following discussion here on Talk. The separate articles have since been edited. A revert was made on 14 September 2009 (diff which makes my browser hang). The revert restored the "combined" version of the article which has since been edited. I do not have the wikiskills to resolve this efficienly but I hope someone else will be able to sort things out. Thincat (talk) 13:03, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Here is the old split version, for people using inferior browsers (no problem in Firefox ;) )


 * The author has done a very good job of making separate pages for each prime minister (they are all still there) but in my opinion this is too many pages. I would still favour just three pages, which wouldn't make it too tedious to search for information within the list using the browser's search function.  J Rawle  (Talk) 10:14, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I also think the three-article split is a better solution. Since that seemed to have consensus, can we just go ahead and do it? -Rrius (talk) 00:47, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The heck with it. The edits at the small articles are largely minor and have only to do with categories and the like. What I am going to do now is to the 13 articles redirects to this one. From there, we need to actually do the dividing. The current proposal yields the following:
 * List of life peerages (1958–1979)
 * List of life peerages (1979–1997)
 * List of life peerages (1997–present)
 * While there is a certain logic in those, we should consider that the list will continue to grow (considerably if the Tories win the election. As such, I propose this division:
 * List of life peerages (1958–1979)
 * List of life peerages (1979–2001)
 * List of life peerages (2001–present)
 * If I see no response, I'll go ahead and split along the lines I am proposing in a few days. -Rrius (talk) 01:15, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I would leave it until 7 May. Kittybrewster  &#9742;  23:21, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Why 2001? Kittybrewster   &#9742;  23:24, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It was based on an eyeball estimate for getting two roughly equal articles for the past articles, leaving one to add on to. Having now looked into it further, the original proposal results in articles of 62, 48, and 62 kb, which would be great if there would never be more additions. Regardless of who wins the general election, we would be faced with considering the third one complete and starting new list with just a few list items or letting the third one get up to 100K to 140K or so before splitting. Under my proposal, the articles would be 62, 78, and 32, leaving plenty of room for growth, regardless of which party dominates the growth. -Rrius (talk) 03:04, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I've thought about it further, and now propose doing four articles: 1958 to 1979 (62KB), 1979 to 1997 (47KB), 1997 to 2007 (56KB), and 2007 to present (6KB). The logic here is that you get three more or less equal articles, and one with room for growth. Whether Gordon Browns 2007 to 2010 appointments belong with the Blair appointments or not is something that will only be known after two or more general election. If he wins the election, having Brown's first term and second term appointments in a separate article from Blair's seems unimpeachable. If he loses, then Labour wins the next general election after that, having the 2007-10 appointments separate from Blair likewise makes sense. However, if Cameron wins in May and the Conservatives remain in office for two standard-length terms, then it might make sense to go back and move Brown's appointments to the end of the Blair page as Major's would be to what is mostly a Thatcher page. If, instead of separating Brown now, we waited until it became clear where his appointments should go, we would end up with an excessively long list comprising as many as 20-years' worth of appointments. Thus, I propose that we do this, and go ahead and do it soon. -Rrius (talk) 00:35, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose until 7 May. Kittybrewster  &#9742;  08:20, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I have to admit being confused by that. What difference precisely does 6 May make in your view? In other words, what would you like to see happen if Brown wins and what would you like to see happen if Cameron wins? -Rrius (talk) 21:16, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, that was disappointing. Since there is no conceivable way the election should delay splitting off the first two articles. I still don't see what effect the election has whether to split Brown off, and I'm not going to delay the first two for no reason. -Rrius (talk) 01:34, 25 April 2010 (UTC)