Talk:Lushootseed

Untitled
Whoever wrote up the Ethnologue classification obviously knew nothing about Salishan language. What an idea, putting Lushootseed, Skagit, Snohomish, the Southern Puget Sound dialects and Twana all on the same level and calling it "Twana"!!! Lushootseed (dxwleshucid) is a name for the mutually intelligible dialects spoken along the eastern and southern shores of the Puget Sound - Skagit and Snohomish are northern dialects, Duwamish, Niqually, Puyallup and Squaxin are southern dialects. Twana on the other hand is a closely related but not mutually intelligible language, and it has far fewer speakers than Lushootseed so calling the grouping "Twana" just makes no sense; a much better term is Southern Coast Salish, as used in the Handbook of North American Indians (vol. 7).

example sentences
if anybody knows some example sentences, write them here. example


 * aaa- aaa-aaa- aaa-aaa
 * man-boy-fish-past-give
 * the man gave the boy a fish


 * and more sentences would be great!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.195.115 (talk) 04:28, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

xwəlšucid.Whulshootseed
xwəlšucid is southern Puget sound, dxwləšúcid is northern sound


 * Whulshootseed article now exists; I'm unfamiliar with terminologies, it may be that the entire "Southern" section ehre could/should be migrated to that page, or it should be merged here....Skookum1 (talk) 17:24, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Lushootseed orthography
The salmonid terms on this page appear to be taken from the http://www.lushootseed.net/ web page. It should be noted that the spellings rendered here are thus not standard; see the "Spelling and Pronunciation" page on the site. Notably, the lushootseed.net spellings lack characters such as: ə, ƛ, etc.


 * i changed it to fit the standard. of course, it needs to be checked against a dictionary as there are ambiguities – ishwar  (speak)  04:10, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Would someone be so kind as to add some information to the article on how to read the orthography? There are letters and notations used here that I don't recognize (maybe just because I'm not that up on the IPA?), so some explanation would be welcome.


 * And it appears that the domain name for http://www.lushootseed.net/ expired -- it now has some blurb in German about nose jobs (Nasenkorrektur). -- Cheers, Erik Anderson -- 205.166.76.15 (talk) 21:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Tillicum/Steilacoom
Hi; figured this might be the place to ask if Steilacoom is a Lushootseed name/word, or if maybe it's a "Salishanized" form of Tillicum (i.e. with s- added). They're just so close to each other - Tillicum, Washington and Fort Steilacoom...I mean geogrpahically, as well as phonologically.....Skookum1 (talk) 20:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Salmon vocabulary
I don't think it belongs here, it maybe moved to Wiktionary. Attafei (talk) 12:19, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Nasal consonants
The text of the article says Lushootseed has no nasal consonants, and the vocabulary lists (which I liked) show no nasal consonants, but the table of the alphabet shows two kinds of m and two kinds of n. Can anyone straighten that out? &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 21:14, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

b' and l'
This is confusing to me because the IPA /ɓ/ is a bilabial implosive, and it is called a "glottalized b." I've usually heard "glottalized" in the context of ejectives, which can't be voiced. I wasn't quite sure what to do to correct that though, because it seemed like the second column was what the actual speakers called the sound, rather than what linguists called it. /l'/ looks like an ejective lateral in IPA, which I didn't think was possible. If it's not that, than what is it, and what differentiates it from ɫ (velarized l)? Alázhlis (talk) 00:02, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Fixed thank you! Alázhlis (talk) 06:02, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Number of speakers
The article gives 200 as the number of Lushootseed speakers. Marianne Mithun's 1999 reference work The languages of native North America states that there were "a handful", so 200 seems highly unlikely. Is there any recent, reliable information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ohammer (talk • contribs) 13:34, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

No mention of Juliet Shen?
Juliet Shen was commissioned by the tribe to design a font to help with the language revitalisation. There's an article about it at Designing a font to preserve a vanishing language, being linked from Going Global: The last decade in multi-script type design. — OwenBlacker (Talk) 00:00, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

I was just in a lecture by Julia Shen. She should absolutely be mentioned here, as well as an external link to the font file. Kyleleitch 14:05 PDT, 4 November 2016 —Preceding undated comment added 21:05, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

phonology section
I created a phonology section based entirely on the Alphabet section. I recognize the original research issues, but phonology tables are expected on all language articles and there wasn't one yet. If anyone who has access to the books mentioned in the bibliography could source (or correct, if necessary) my phonological interpretation, please do so. Alázhlis (talk) 06:05, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
 * User:Fdomanico51997 I'm a bit confused by your changes. The conventions for phoneme tables are as follows: If a phoneme is marginal, it should be in parentheses. If it is an allophone, it should not be in the table but explained in a footnote. If it is neither, it should not be marked as all entries in the table are assumed to be phonemes. Please see English phonology and other phonology articles for examples. Thanks. Catrìona (talk) 14:11, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your contributions, User:Fdomanico51997. Could you please explain why you have deleted the reference to the true palatal consonants (ç and so forth)? I derived them from the alphabet section of this article, which, while needing clear inline citations seems to be based on Lushootseed-specific linguistic work which I consider more reliable then the source that you cited (Browner 2009). Browner is not a meaningful language learning resource if only two pages are devoted to Lushootseed language. Catrìona (talk) 16:10, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

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Bed (bad?) example
One of the syntax examples given appears to be wrong: "šəqabac ʔal tə dqəl’qəlub" is said to mean "On top of the bed", but it actually means "On top of my eyes," since d- is the prefix for "my" and "qəl’qəlub" is "qəluʔb" which means eye, reduplicated to give the plural (and missing /ʔ/ which I assume is a typo.) See Hess p. 176.

To read as "On top of the bed" it should be "šəqabac ʔal ti piit" (See Hess p. 162 for piit, which comes from Chinook Jargon from English "bed.") The rest of the examples look okay, so I'll just make this change. Amabelles (talk)

Skykomish dialect
Hello, I removed Skykomish as a Southern dialect, because sources seem to indicate that there is no scholarly consensus. However, I am not an expert and if other more knowledgeable editors think this was foolish, please revert. Thanks! -  Paulie 27   talk  10:06, 27 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I was taught that it's a southern dialect, but I don't have any sources on hand to state that. I will update if I do. PersusjCP (talk) 18:43, 27 December 2023 (UTC)