Talk:Márcio Stambowsky

Untitled 2017 comment
The subject is a well-known Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Grand Master, a 7th Degree Coral Belt, who has been broadly and publicly recognized by his peers in the Gracie family for making significant early contributions to the art of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. He is one of only five Rolls Gracie black belts and one of only a handful of BJJ Coral Belts in the world, notable for popularizing the now iconic triangle choke in the early days of BJJ competition. According to sources, he is the only Coral Belt in the Northeastern United States, the chief instructor and founder of Gracie Sports USA organization, and the leader of a regional Jiu Jitsu Federation that holds frequent events and hosts regional BJJ competitions. He has also been cited by several sources as one of the top BJJ competitors of the 1980s, during the crucial developmental stages of the sport in Brazil. Finally, he is the father and mentor of MMA champion Neiman Gracie. Below is a brief and incomplete list of various news and published sources that support to Stambowsky's reputation and/or establish his influence as a renowned BJJ Grand Master, amply supporting Wikipedia's notability criteria.
 * You have to actually add the sources to the article for them to matter.★Trekker (talk) 21:21, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
 * ToddLara729 As far as I can tell you have added a bunch of non-notable sources, some of which are private websites apparently owned by his relatives. You need to come up with some more unbiased sources if you want to keep this article from being deleted. Maybe from some books?★Trekker (talk) 04:46, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

http://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/marcio-stambowsky http://kroylergracie.com/news/2016/3/23/macarraos-influence-on-me-and-my-jiu-jitsu http://www.bjjheroes.com/tag/bjj-coral-belts http://soulcraftbjj.com/brazilian-jiu-jitsu/instructors/ http://www.submissioncontrol.com/main/2011/04/marcio-stambowsky-shows-the-macarrao-sweep/ http://www.thewestonforum.com/52715/stambowsky-shares-passion-for-jiu-jitsu/ http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/5/30/3053184/2012-mundials-team-preview-alliance http://mmajunkie.com/2014/07/fight-path-neiman-gracie-began-his-family-tradition-on-a-surfboard http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/2/9/10949578/neiman-gracie-vs-roger-carroll-added-to-bellator-151 http://www.bjjweekly.com/blog/post/marcio-stambowsky-kimura-variation-with-sweep-bjj-weekly-061 http://bjjinparadise.com/the-training.php
 * While a few of the of websites added are probably operated by notable members of the Gracie Jiu Jitsu family who are distant relatives through marriage, these sources are more importantly credible BJJ masters and notable descendants of the founders of GJJ who are addressing the public on the record rather than touting random members of their family. In addition, many of the sources cited are third-party, non-biases sources and in some cases competitors. For example, the following randomly selected source (http://www.fargobjj.com/SocialSite/Lounge/fargo-bjj-the-history-of-the-toe-hold-footlock) refers to Stambowsky as, "the famous Macarrao" and "a well-known foot lock expert." I'm sensitive to the policy concerns voiced above, but I am not sure how much more stacking of these unbiased sources it will take before it becomes sufficiently convincing that the subject is notable, noteworthy, "famous and well-known." These sources, collectively, should not be dismissed. I will work on gathering additional material as suggested, but in the meantime, these are my references. They are numerous and they are relevant. This article should be further developed rather than deleted. Thank you for reopening the debate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ToddLara729 (talk • contribs) 10:34, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Update, regarding book references, a Google Books search query of "Marcio Stambowsky" returns a series of publications, a number of which are in Portuguese, including "100 of the Best Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Fighters of All Time," by Alex Trost/Vadim Kravetsky (ISBN 9781468936490), as well as, "Carlos Gracie: o criador de uma dinastia," which is apparently a book about the founder of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in which Stambosky is mentioned as a notable figure (ISBN 9788501080752). While I'm not sure I can cite these references in the text of the Wikipedia article itself, I would submit that their existence goes to further support the case against deletion, via Talk. ToddLara729 (talk) 11:34, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I respectfully propose removal of the speedy deletion tag and holding with just the notability tag as we continue the discussion and collaboratively tighten up on the sources going forward.ToddLara729 (talk) 11:43, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * ToddLara729 I have searched his name and I could find no reliable sources that indicate particular notability. I found two mentions in books, only two. I feel that you need to read up on wikipedias notablity guidlines, being important isn't the same as notability.★Trekker (talk) 16:52, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Let the record show that I have at least seven hits on my side for Jiu Jitsu books via Google Book Search when the subject's name is queried. ToddLara729 (talk) 20:53, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Also for the record, this page was created from scratch and is not a repost of the originally deleted article. ToddLara729 (talk) 21:24, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The issues discussed in the AfD still exist.Peter Rehse (talk) 21:35, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Previous discussed rationale: "Notability claims seem to be based on who he knew and who his instructor was, but notability is not inherited. No indication he ever competed at the highest level (Olympics or world championships)."
 * In contrast, in the latest version of the article, he is cited by credible sources as independently notable as a key early-stage developer of the iconic BJJ version of the triangle lock and well-known closed guard tactics in competition. Also in this version, a medal list is submitted, including a high-level gold against Brazil's top BJJ champions of the day. It is mentioned that he was recruited to be a member of an Olympic team and a World Championship team in 1980. To keep this in context, the subject's competition history seems to have predated the widespread popularity that the sport now enjoys, but he is broadly recognized by today's athletes and masters as a notable independent developer of key fundamental techniques and the development of the sport, as many BJJ sources indicate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ToddLara729 (talk • contribs) 22:17, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Per administrator, "Claims in article would confer notability per WP:SPORTSPERSON if confirmed." See page history. ToddLara729 (talk) 00:23, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
 * You claim several mentions in books, why have you not cited them in the article? They would probably support your case.★Trekker (talk) 14:44, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Working on linking notable accomplishments to book references. Thanks for the input. ToddLara729 (talk) 15:02, 14 February 2017 (UTC)