Talk:MSI Reproductive Choices

Hitler reference
I have reverted the characterization of Stopes as "admirer of Adolf Hitler" from the article, per WP:NPOV. This characterization comes from a highly partisan ideological source and as such violates WP:NPOV. Moreover, this article is about an organization, rather than about Stopes herself. The discussion of a letter to Hitler belongs in the Marie Stopes article, where the topic is already covered at length. Nsk92 (talk) 23:07, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

If the person that the organisation is named after has an extensive sentence dedicated to her in the first paragraph, then I wouldn't say that adding a small amount of additional information about her activities is unjustified. Moreover, the source is not particularly POV, certainly not in comparison to the most common source used in this article, Marie Stopes International itself. Duckelf (talk) 23:13, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The sentence about being a "admirer of Hitler" is extremely inflammatory, given without proper context (which belongs in the Marie Stopes article), and the source given is a highly partisan ideologue in the abortion culture wars. Certainly inappropriate per WP:NPOV. If you disagree, you can start an RfC or request WP:3O. Nsk92 (talk) 23:20, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Abortion / Illegal Abortions
Thought this might need some discussion. I see Duckelf has been attempting to include a claim that Marie Stopes provides illegal abortions. The youtube video certainly seems to show a Marie Stopes representative saying they perform illegal abortions - doesn't this count as a sufficient source? I think the whole section might need some re-writing - maybe a bit more context about where and were not Marie Stopes provides abortions, and also what counts as an illegal abortion. I might have a go later if no one has any suggestions.

Re 'pro-abortion' in the intro - I don't think it's right to include this as it is for two reasons:

(i) undue emphasis - Marie Stopes provides lots of advice services, not just abortion.

(ii) It's also not 'pro' abortion - it provides them, and is presumably pro people having the choice to have abortions.

I've removed it for this reason; happy to discuss. If it must be included, perhaps a sentence saying all the things Marie Stopes does, including providing abortions. Feeling can run high on this kind of issue - let's try and keep it in good faith and civil. 82.45.213.183 (talk) 13:59, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Youtube definitely does not qualify as a reliable source. For this article one really needs to try stick to non-partisan published independent sources. However, on the "pro-abortion" issue, I think that some mention (neutrally worded, of course) of the organization's pro-abortion stance is warranted, IMO, since it does play an important role in MSI's activities and plays an important role in its public image. Nsk92 (talk) 14:07, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


 * It's just the word 'pro-abortion' I've got an issue with, as it's inaccurate. Happy to call it pro-choice, and mention it's a provider of abortions. It doesn't provide abortions in some countries it operates in either, I think, so we may be being biased by how it's presented in the UK and English language media. 82.45.213.183 (talk) 14:17, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


 * "Pro-choice" is obviously a fine substitute for my addition. Duckelf (talk) 14:24, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


 * But there needs to be some mention of their illegal/criminal activity, and some other source used in the article besides the website of the organisation itself. Duckelf (talk) 14:26, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, included such a sentence.


 * Re illegal activity - Duckelf - that source doesn't establish they actually do engage in criminal activity - maybe better to just say a representative of them has been quoted as saying that they do. I know it's a fine distinction, but good to be careful here.
 * Nsk92 - Re reliable source, couldn't we include this as a quotation? We have a video of a representative of Marie Stopes explicitly saying they provide illegal abortions. Do you think we need to have a reliable source to confirm the video is actually of a Marie Stopes representative, and not someone else? I do think that if it is included, we should have something about what counts as an illegal abortion in some countries in which MS operates though (e.g. simply providing an abortion in some countries is providing an illegal abortion - we're not necessarily talking about late term things here. I can see this is a very very tricky issue). 82.45.213.183 (talk) 14:29, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Re youtube: As a general matter of policy, I don't think it is ever appropriate to use a Youtube video for WP:V purposes. This is especially true for hot-button controversial issues, like abortion, where one really needs to be much more conservative in terms of the sources used. In this particular case it should be possible to find a less problematic source for the information in question. Nsk92 (talk) 14:52, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Murtle51, 26 May 2010
Marie Stopes International have updated their stats / figures to cover 2009: http://mariestopes.org/About_Marie_Stopes_International.aspx

I'm happy to update these

Murtle51 (talk) 18:29, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Can you provide a more independent source (like a news article, not just their own website)? Also, I'm not convinced that just listing statistics is appropriate.  — fetch ·  comms   19:30, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Murtle51 (talk) 19:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)bit of a difficult one, as with any organisation the figures come from the organisation - if there were a more independent source, like a new article (and I can't find one) the figures used there would more than likely just come from a press release!

My concern, as someone who has worked with the organisation, is that the page doesn't currently reflect what they do. Will do some more digging to see if I can find some independent sources. If not does that mean the page doesn't get updated?

Rename article to reflect change of institute's name?
Marie Stopes International has changed its name to MSI Reproductive Choices. Perhaps the article should be renamed to reflect this (with Marie Stopes International redirecting to the renamed article). Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 12:40, 17 November 2020 (UTC) It's been done, as of 12:40, 17 November 2020. Pol098 (talk) 13:00, 17 November 2020 (UTC)