Talk:MV Goya

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Text needs translation and adding to article: The Goya was a german Flüchtlingship, in 1940 in Oslo Akers Werft als Frachter (Long : 131 m - Width : 17 m) built. On 16 April 1945 befand sich das mit Flüchtlingen überfüllte ship on the way Halbinsel HeIa in Ausgang of Danzig Bay from Westdeutschland, als was sunk by a sowjet U-Boot ( L 3 under the Kommandant Kapitän Vladimir Konowalow) dabei sunk mindestens 7,000 men. The genaue count wird sich wohl nie mehr feststellen lassen, da the passengers liste nach dem Eintrag von 7,200 men abgebrochen wurden. Danach stürmten noch hunderte Verzweifelte the ship. At around 23.52 befiehlt the Kommandant of L3, Kapitän VIadimir Konovalow: "Fire"...!

Innerhalb only seven minutes sunk the Goya around 78 m. Gerettet wurden only 172 passengers. The sinking was denied by sowjet long time. thumb|none|160px|Photo Goya in 1945

Almost 58 years after the sinking of Goya, on 16 April 2003 entdeckt an international expedition under Leitung of Ulrich Restemeyer das wrack with a 3D-Sonars in 76 m Tiefe on the Baltic Sea-ground in bemerkenwert gutem Zustand.

See also : Catastrophes der Seefahrt, Wilhelm Gustloff (ship), Titanic, Francisco de Goya

Weblinks
Expedition GOYA on 12 until 22 A pril 2003 with the MS Fritz Reuter and a MDR-Team


 * Done - if somewhat blindly -- Solipsist 22:06, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * How do you reference an image in an interwiki? There is a historical photograph at, although without attribution. -- Solipsist 22:16, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Have to download to your machine and upload to here, sorry. That's why people want to have a special "wikicommons" that is accessible to all languages. Stan 01:54, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

'Goya' or 'The Goya'
You wrote "Italics are OK, but ship names are usually preceded by the definite article". Often, yes, but not usually. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships for discussion.

The frequency of "the" depends on the ship. For example, on Google I get about 2:1 for "Bismarck" : "the Bismarck" and about 14:1 for "Hood" : "the Hood" (when searching with suitable extra terms to rule out false positives). But on the other hand the ratio is about 2.5:1 for "the Titanic" : "Titanic" and 12:1 for "the Mary Rose" : "Mary Rose". It seems that the more famous a ship is, the more likely it is to acquire the definite article.

In the particular case of Goya, I get about 2:1 for "Goya" : "the Goya" so I'm not sure your change was justified. Gdr 02:22, 2004 Dec 30 (UTC)


 * There's a WikiProject for Ships? I shouldn't be surprised. In any case the discussion there on the use of the definite article looks good, but inconclusive. If it wasn't for the Hood (which personally I would still call The Hood), I would suspect that this is an UK - US language issue, although not one I would have known about. To me the most accurate comment in the disucssion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships is User:Stan's information on the 3 categories for use of the definite article, with ships, planes [and trains] in the "typically use 'the'" category. There is also an element of dropping the definite article when you are anthropomorphizing the ship - this is perhaps particularly the case when you are talking about the movement of ships in a naval engagements, 'Hood opened fire at 12:03...', but not when you are talking about people in relation to a ship, 'Passengers on the Titanic were unaware...' (actually most of the RMS Titanic article reads badly to me, now that someone has gone through and removed the definite articles).
 * Ordinarily I wouldn't care too much, but in this case it needs to be 'The Goya'. I'm not sure what internet searches you have been trying, but the German articles I used as the source here, use 'Die Goya'. More particularly the opening phrase
 * Goya was a German refugee ship...
 * would be wrong - Goya, was a Spanish painter. -- Solipsist 07:22, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

slight dicrepancy
From what I can see, the recent update to the numbers on the passenger list and the number of people saved, comes from the German version of this article. However, it introduces a mild discrepancy with the earlier sentence
 * with the loss of at least 7,000 people drowned

presumably that figure should be dropped to 6,000, or perhaps 5,900. -- Solipsist 12:42, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Wreck site?
What are the longitude/latitude coordinates for the wreck site? --Ragemanchoo (talk) 12:47, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Drowned in their sleep?
"Within moments, the ship broke in two and while fire consumed the upper portions of the Goya, it sank in less than four minutes, drowning thousands in their sleep,[1]"

Dubious. Unlikely they were asleep after two catastrophic torpedo hits. Reword? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.217.214.194 (talk) 19:18, 23 July 2018 (UTC)