Talk:Madonna as a gay icon

Page creation
I realize that this page doesn't look good at this point. It is just a beginning. And I realize that I might not have found the perfect title for the page. If you find this to be true, please edit accordingly. I truly believe that this is a noteworthy article because Madonna is the biggest selling female performer of the rock era, and she has often referenced the gay community in her work and one of the largest and most loyal fanbases is the gay male community. -- Andrew Parodi 08:33, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Suggested merge with Madonna (entertainer)

 * Oppose: I wouldn't merge this with the main article because that one is already very long and packed. It contains a paragraph about "Madonna and the gay community" that links to this article. I would rather see this article being expanded. Bisco 11:49, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose: It goes without saying that I oppose a merge with the main article, as I'm the one who started this very article. But I started this article for the very reason you mention: the main article is huge and cumbersome already. Andrew Parodi 12:03, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose: the main article is already long--LooseTheHotButtonS 15:08, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * approve. This "article" is about nothing.  It certainly doesn't deserve to be more than a brief mention in the main Madonna article.  Exploding Boy 02:26, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose Too much information to merge into the main Madonna article.Agne 07:39, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * approve. Pointless.74.12.66.243 06:55, 20 December 2006 (UTC)BangtheDrum

Title
I was about to move this page to "Madonna as a gay icon" when I discovered I had already done so last year, and the move was undone citing previous discussion. I see no discussion here or on the talk:gay icon page. Can someone point me to it? Exploding Boy (talk) 02:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's under one of the other gay icon articles, maybe the Judy one. -- Banj e  b oi   08:18, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, that article is currently at "... a gay icon," and the entire discussion (which was closed as "no consensus") consisted of 1 support and 2 opposes. Time to restart the discussion, which I'll do at the main gay icon page.  Exploding Boy (talk) 15:31, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Let's include all three? -- Banj e  b oi   00:27, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * How do you mean? Exploding Boy (talk) 00:45, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, you already did, athough we should link to all three talkpages for next time this comes up. -- Banj e  b oi   01:33, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

two things
First of all, in the first paragraph of the section "Life as a LGBT icon" it's mentioned that Madonna's ballet teacher was the first person to call her beautiful. Is that really necesarry? Secondly, I'm wondering if I should add that in the song In This Life, there are the lines "Why should he be treated differently?/Shouldn't matter who you choose to love", hinting that it should not matter which gender one chooses to have a relationshiop with. Would that be counted as original research? I'm really new at Wikipedia, so I need people tell me if that would be fine to submit. I know. I sound pitifully stupid:)--Ella Vader (talk) 23:24, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

gay vs LGBT(Q) vs queer
I think it needs to be decided whether Madonna is a gay icon, a gay and lesbian icon, a LGBT icon, an LGBTQ icon, or a queer icon. "Queer" is the most contemporary term uses in academia. 132.216.19.215 (talk) 20:56, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * A lot of LGBTQIA people may use the word "queer" when referring to the LGBTQIA community, but I know a lot of LGBTQIA people are also offended by the term "queer". Personally, I'm not offended by labels, but I'm not looking to offend anybody else either, so I would definitely oppose a change to "queer" on any of the "gay icon" pages.  "LGBTQIA icon" doesn't exactly his the ear (or the eye) right either.  I think most people understand that "gay icon" is a blanket term that encompasses all factions of the LGBTQIA community, but if anyone is really concerned about potential confusion then a disambiguation can be noted in each respective articles' lead. --- Crakkerjakk (talk) 12:09, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Expanding
I dont see anywhere referencing madonna's tolerance of the LGBT community in her artwork. Songs like "Deeper and Deeper" and "In This Life" that talk about homosexual tolerance. Also i dont see anywhere referencing how she often uses gay men in her videos and on her tours and has for over 20 years. I dont see anywhere talking about how in her SEX book she had a bunch of homoerotic pictures and in the picture it also featured a gay porn star.

It also does not talk about her close relationship with lesbian Rosie O'Donnell. It does not say anywhere about her dating Jenny Shimizu, it says no where about her widely publicized sexual relationship with Sandra Bernhard. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.181.62.167 (talk) 06:55, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Links for expansion

 * http://www.muumuse.com/2014/01/same-love-on-madonna-the-gay-community-and-why-that-macklemore-performance-mattered.html/
 * http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/pride/7824546/madonna-lgbtq-inspiration-ally-moments

— Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat ] 03:42, 28 January 2014 (UTC)


 * There is a lot other sources in the article of Spanish Wikipedia and can give an idea how to rewrite this article :). Chrishonduras  (Diskussion ) 04:27, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
 * thanks it seems like an important addition. Also you can refer Janet Jackson as gay icon article for taking points. — I B  [ Poke ] 04:38, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
 * It is. With the Jackson's article I prefer to avoid take it as an example, even if is GA. They have different history with a "random" topic like this and by consequency the structure can be different. Virtually every "diva" will be a "gay icon", but Madonna has a different background, especially if she is consider "the most [...]" of everything. Chrishonduras  (Diskussion ) 18:52, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Of course thats true. Madonna's gay icondom is far more vast and expansive than Janet's. I was saying just take pointers. — I B  [ Poke ] 04:30, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

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Neutrality disputed (July 2021)
I think the article has a lot of subjective wording that should be changed and/or removed. For example, although the claim that the Madonna is a gay icon is backed up by some evidence, the way the articles present it as fact is blatant WP:SYNTHESIS and original research. The Madonna source polling people on their opinion of if she is a gay icon does not in any way verify the claim that "Madonna is a gay icon embraced by the gay community" and I doubt any WP:RELIABLE source would. The articles also provide virtually zero context for the point of view of their subject being a gay icon, not indicating anywhere how prevalent or significant that position is. –– F ORMAL D UDE ( talk ) 01:30, 7 July 2021 (UTC)


 * This is discussed at the pending Madonna as a gay icon AfD. Beccaynr (talk) 19:02, 10 July 2021 (UTC)