Talk:Madragana

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Well, the article stands inacurate, as we are not certain that the last islamic al-caid (military chief, or governor of a town) of Faro was a moçárabe:he could be an arab or at least a muslim jew or moor.

Ben means "son of" and should then have a b and not a B: Aloandro ben Becar: ben is not a name. Aloandro and Becar are the only known portuguese forms of his arab name.

Madragana was not the wife, but just the mistress of Dom Afonso III. Se was christened in time, receiving her new christian name as Maior Afonso, Mor being short for Maior, a common female name in mediaeval portuguese (Maior meaning "the bigger", and not "the moor", even if she really was a moor). Afonso was given her in baptism as her new patronymic, meaning "the daughter of" Afonso - and that implies that her elderly royal lover was also her godfather, that she took his spiritual fatherhood when christening, as she could not do that with her muslim biologic father. Sometimes, Madragana was also called in ancien portuguese chronicles Mouroana, and/or Madraganil. Duarte Nunes de Leão, a portuguese royal chronicler of the XVIth century, tells us that Madragana was a moor. And indeed, the only author to deny that was Dom António Caetano de Sousa, in the XVIIIth century, in the História Genealógica da Casa Real Portuguesa. But Dom António Caetano was paid by king John V to write the genealogical history of the Portuguese Royal House,and the Sousa family, issue of Maior Afonso, was of royal malehood line, linked with the more important aristocratic families of that time, and they would then consider that drop of moor blood as "non exequator".

When passion with the king vaned, she was married to Fernão Rei, and they had documented issue, at least one daughter of her, Sancha Fernandes, married and perpetuated the Rei family. Note that Rei means king, in portuguese, and so Fernão Rei is supposed to have been originally a servant of the king (Fernão do Rei - Ferdinand of the King), his issue bearing Rei afterwards as a surname to glory with.

One could say of Maior Afonso that she is genetically a great grand mother to almost all european aristocracy and royal families, by the noble house of Sousa - afterwards earls of Miranda, marquesses of Arronches and Dukes of Lafões - and the portuguese Royal Family. But certainly her most ilustrious descendant in universal History was the ambassador Dom Rui de Sousa, lord of Sagres and Beringel, a portuguese fidalgo who in 1494 negotiated,wroted and signed the Treaty of Tordesillas, on behalf of his master, John II. Dom Rui was accompanied at the castilian court by his son, Dom João de Sousa, who also signed the treaty. I suggest the title of this article change to "Madragana ben Aloandro ben Bakar, later Maior Afonso (Mor Afonso)".Portuguez (talk) 14:11, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Mr. "Portuguez", Have you enjoyed your masturbation enough? Many things can be found in Portuguese Historical reccord and in curent geonological study to prove or disprove everything we want regardina the "Madragana affair". So, we shall follow logic, shall we? Let's ses... Aloandro, her father's name, is not particularly moslem, is it? Given that before the Portuguese conquest of the Algarve the Christians were already a majority I reckon that an absolute majority - virtually all - of the people in Algarve named "Aloandro" at the time were Christians. Anyway... was it odd to have Christians as leaders of the local communities serving Arab or Islamic princes? No, it was not. In Coimbra itself, 200 years earlier, we found the undoubtedly Christian Sisnado Davides leading the city of Coimbra. I am saying to all that decide to read this that the same happened with Madragana's family. Actually, the most convinving studies on the ancestry of "Aloandro" himself reveal that he was a descendent of the Christian Counts of Barcelona. A Catalan then. If moslem, he'd be considered a "Muladi" - that is, a moslem whith Christian origin and latin culture who just converted to Islam. Especially among the warrior elite we find a few Christians that decide to serve moslem armies. This is most likely the case. I believe they were Mozarabs, though: That is, that they were not moors. They served the islamic powers but they were Christians. This is the most logical following. The mentioned "Christening" of Madragana would mean her entry into the Catholic faith of the Roman Rite in contrast with the Visigothic Rite of most Mozarabs - Christians living under the moslems. Otherwise, how would there still be doubts regarding her faith when we speak of a Christening? She was called a moor in the cronicles because it was not seen as good to have the King enamoured with a mozarabic girl. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.71.87.106 (talk) 12:40, 8 February 2020 (UTC)


 * What you think is irrelevant unless reliably sourced. Wikipedia is not the place to publish original research. Gabriel C (talk) 18:40, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Where can I find genealogy of the Rei family?
Can you recommend works on the Rei family? I cannot find it on the Portugese genealogy web site.

Sorry, just saw your question today. I dont'think you'll find it easily, as there are several homonimical Rei familys, and I have a feeling that the Rei descendents of Maior Afonso had not distinguished themselves very much. Portuguez (talk) 14:14, 18 November 2007 (UTC)