Talk:Malayalam calendar

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—Yamara ✉  15:25, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Discussion
This article is broken. The content in "derived names" really belongs in the "dates" section, while the former section itself has little discussion on why the malayalam month names are identical ( in meaning) to the names in the western zodiac chart; more information on this will also shed further light on the origins of the calendar.128.165.21.77 22:55, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

HI My dad was born on 23rd of the karkadikam month in 1946.Would u please help me to find the date in the english calender. We just dont know his birthday. My Id is varghese.k.thomas@gmail.com. Thanks VT
 * Hmm..if this site is anything reliable, then, your dad was born on the 7th of August, 1946. It was a Wednesday, and his nakshatram is Aniyzham. I've sent this to your mail too. -- thunderboltza.k.a.D e epu Joseph11:00, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The quality of grammar on the page is pathetic. And it seems to be intent on glorifying the "St. Thomas tradition of Vaishnavism", whatever that is. I cannot edit this page since I am not an expert on the subject, but one can perhaps sense an attempt by very highly uninformed elements to paint the picture in a religious way. And they seem to be intent on inciting hatred between the Brahmins of Kerala, who I am told are practitioners of Sramana, probably the most orthodox form of Hinduism in India, and the Christians. Please keep this website free from such religious fact-beniding and malaise.

The Nestorian calendar, I'd presume, would probably have more in common with the Persian calendar than with the Malayalam calendar. Can someone who is truly an "expert" look into this?

I find flaws in this page: 1. While there is historical evidence for a community of Christians in Kerala starting 200 AD, there is no evidence for St. Thomas coming to Kerala. This is more like a myth and should not be assumed to be true in a serious article.

2. There is no historical evidence for Nambudiris in Kerala being converted to Christianity. This is also at the level of a myth.

To base a history of a calendar so fundamentally on two mythical events is not correct. Incidentally the Travancore Manual is not a reliable source for events that took place more than a 1000 years ago. It cannot be quoted as an authority. Nor can the Keralotpatti.

I think one should clearly delineate myth from history in these kind of articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Balasath (talk • contribs) 10:13, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

days in month
can somebody please mention the no. of days in a month and days in a year for the malyalam calender.nids 10:40, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure, but I think the answer is that a month can have anywhere between 28-32 days. Anywhow, I've passed your question over to the Kerala Noticeboard. Please check there too. -- thunderboltza.k.a.D e epu Joseph11:17, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

origin
The attribution of Malyalam calender to Adi Sankaracharya is disputale. There are more than three attribution of origin of malyalam calendar. 1. To king Udaya marthanda varma who who was a rular in Kollam (hence kola Varsham) 2 According to Tharisapalli plates (892 AD) by ayyanadikal thiruvadikal to the christian merchants by the king although the dates mentioned in the plates are reigning year of the king. 3. as you cited to Adi sankara.

Of these the 2nd one has more histriographical evidence.

In his book (veNadiNTe pariNAmam) K Sivankaran Pillai,DC books, 2005 pp 28-29 has mentioned about existance various theories about the origin of M.E. But he gives the most importance to the 2nd one above. The Nestorian's fled from the Islamic conquests and chose korukeNikollam( a Famous trade centre as a refuge. They established a church,colony and invited a bishop/matron from persia. This was during 824-825 and they stated a new era. They called year kollam thondriya aanT(somebody please translate)!!! . Since they were aginst the roman church they were against Anno Domina or the Islamic era they had go for calender of their own. Nestorians were merchants when trade flourished their dates started to be used widely. The problem was the difficulty in accepting that christians started the era and various interpreations flourished Even the Kerala Government quotes Herman Gundert ("according to Herman Gundert") without any references that it was durng the time of udaya marthaNTa vaRma a shiva temple was built and during its consecration( which was the start of harvest season(chingam) the era was started. And most of them refer to this Gundert Quote. activevoid (talk) 08:01, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I am a little confused by this line : It was 3926 years into the Kali Yuga in 824 AD. Kaliyuga began in 3102 BC. I might have got the math wrong but I get the year 3926 as AD 822-823. Tintin (talk) 09:16, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * We do not have a clear Idea when the era started Exactly. Most them agree that it started somewhere in 824 - 825 AD. And for calculation we take it as 825 AD. I just quoted it as is was given by the site from the travancore state manual. So Mr velu pillai might have had erred by few years. I just want to quote the that it was kali abda. activevoid203.200.35.8 15:37, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Also Please see the section "Other year zero traditions" in 1st millennium which clarify why its 3926 in It was 3926 years into the Kali Yuga in 824 AD and not any Other date....activevoid (talk) 13:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

The first month
The first month in Malayalam (Kollam) Calendar is not Medam (മേടം), but Chingam (ചിങ്ങം). The astrological and astronomical zodiac cycle starts at Medam, but Malayalam Calendar starts on Chingam 1, which occurs in mid-August. Umesh (talk) 17:28, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Regarding - Comparative table showing corresponding months of other calendars
The tables show each malayalam month mapping onto two months in a number of calenders, including the Hijra Era.

I do not think it is possible to associate a Malayalam month with two constant months in the Hijra Era, as the Hijra calender is not expected to remain in synchrony with the seasons; or in synchrony with other calenders which preserve their relationship to the seasons.

The H.E. has 354 days which causes it to shift by 11 days a year with respect to the solstices and to calenders which preserve a constant date for the solstices or equinoxes.

In the table, the current malayalam month does not actually match the given Hijra months for Medam 1183 (or May-June 2008), as given in a Government Calender I have.

I suggest that the column for the Hijra Month be amended - to specify the year we are talking about,; or that column be deleted entirely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.68.67.64 (talk) 21:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * This is correct. I deleted the Hijra year column. Umesh (talk) 04:05, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Names of the Months in the Calender
It appears to me that there is some relation ship between the names of the months and the signs of the zodiac. For example, Chingam is followed by Kanni, just as Leo is followed by Virgo. the same seems to be true for the rest of the months.

Considering that the signs of the zodiac is also followed in europe, is this some sort of weird ancient cultural contact ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.68.67.64 (talk) 21:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Evaluation of existing Herman Moll section and lead-in
This article appears to have been embellished with a lot of peripheral material around September 11, 2009 to September 15, 2009 and under the current heading Herman Moll, the noted cartographer. On several occasions, other editors have attempted to delete this material only to have it reverted apparently by the anonymous editor who entered it. I don't see the relevance of this material and prefer the lead-in existing prior to September 11th. I would advise reverting back to that version. However, this should be discussed before doing so--please do so here. Pinethicket (talk) 11:00, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

I think the section title should be changed to something else since there doesn't seem to be anything related to Herman Moll there. User: Sasi 23:19, 15 December 2009 IST —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.68.80.44 (talk)

Removed content from the article
I removed the following portion from the very beginning of the article, since this article is about malayalam calendar.

Kerala is first mentioned (as Keralaputra) in a 3rd-century-BC rock inscription left by the Mauryan emperor Asoka the Great. According to the first century annals of Pliny the Elder and the author of Periplus of the Erythraean sea,Tarsish and Muziris in Kerala could be reached in 14 days' time from the Red sea ports in Egyptian coast purely depending on the South West Monsoon winds. The Sangam works Puranaooru and Akananooru have many lines which speak of the Roman vessels and the Roman gold that used to come to the Kerala ports of the great Aryan kings in search of pepper and other spices, which had enormous demand in the West.

Background
Since at least the first millennium BC, pepper was regarded as an ultimate luxury, inessential to survival yet highly desired for ritual, medicinal and culinary purposes. The origins of this desire stretch back to ancient Egypt, with the great pharaoh Ramses II being the first known consumer, albeit posthumously: peppercorns were found in the nostrils of his mummified corpse. In ancient Greece, pepper was used medicinally and the Chinese have used it in their cooking since at least the fourth century. The Romans' conquest of Egypt gave them regular access to pepper, and it became a symbol of luxurious cookery. It was traded ounce for ounce with precious metals: When Rome was besieged in the fifth century, the city allegedly paid its ransom in peppercorns, and the spice remained an accepted form of "currency" throughout the Middle Ages. Mediterranean merchants seeking Indian and Chinese goods had been forced to seek their spices and silk through Arab and Persian middlemen at Kerala ports who monopolized the Arabian sea trade. Rome-India Sea Route rivaled Silk Road. Nautical archaeologists in Quseir will be working in partnership with the archaeology department at Southampton University. Prof David Peacock, a Roman archaeologist there, is leading the onshore excavation efforts at Quseir where he has found traces of Roman and Greek occupation in the form of huge clay pots once filled with wine and olive oil Spices, gems and other exotic cargo excavated from an ancient port on Egypt's Red Sea show that the sea trade 3,000 years ago between the Roman Empire and Kerala shores was more extensive than previously thought and even rivaled the legendary Silk Road, archaeologists say. "We talk today about globalism as if it were the latest thing, but trade was going on in antiquity at a scale and scope that is truly impressive," the co-director of the dig, Willeke Wendrich of the University of California at Los Angeles.

Wend rich and Steven Sidebotham of the University of Delaware report their findings in the issue of the journal Sahara. Historians have long known that Egypt and India (Keralaputra) traded sea during the Roman era, in part because of texts detailing the commercial exchange of luxury goods, including fabrics, spices and wine.

Now, archaeologists who have spent the last nine years excavating the town of Berenike say they have recovered artifacts that are the best physical evidence yet of the extent of sea trade between the Roman Empire and India. Among their finds at the Egypt's Red Sea Ports of Bernice & Quseir included more than 16 pounds (7 kilograms) of black peppercorns, the largest stash of the prized Indian spice ever recovered from a Roman archaeological site. Bernice lies at what was the southeastern extreme of the Roman Empire and probably functioned as a transfer port for goods shipped through the Red Sea. Trade activity at the port peaked twice, in the first millennium BC century and again around 500, before it ceased altogether, possibly after a plague or some other adverse conditions for Trade in Kerala where pepper and other prized spices were sourced.

Ships would sail between Muzris and Tarshish (korke-ni-kollam) in Kerala and Berenice in the Red sea ports during the summer, when monsoon winds were strongest. From Berenice, camel caravans probably carried the goods 240 miles (386 kilometers) west to the Nile, where they were shipped by boat to the Mediterranean port of Alexandria. From there, they could have moved by ship through the rest of the Roman world.

Dubious statements
There are dubious statements in the article.

Tarissapalli copper plates of 825 AD to Assyrian Monk Mar Abo which introduced Syrian liturgy among vaishnavite Nambuthiri Christians of chera Kingdom

This entire statement has no citation


 * 1) Who is the Assyrian monk Mar Abo. No citation, no wiki page.
 * 2) Vaishnavite Nambuthiri Christians. No citation. Dubious?

The statement needs to be removed if verifiable and reliable citations are not available. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aerohari (talk • contribs) 01:58, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * There is already a wikipedia article on Mar Sabor, aka Mar Abo, and Tharisapalli plates. Reinstating the statements with references. Achayan (talk) 08:26, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

IP Content
Content added @ 15:22, 28 October 2014‎ by 78.100.53.66

According to Tharisapalli plates (892 AD) by ayyanadikal thiruvadikal to the christian merchants by the king although the dates mentioned in the plates are reigning year of the king. 3. as you cited to Adi sankara.

Of these the 2nd one has more histriographical evidence.

In his book (veNadiNTe pariNAmam) K Sivankaran Pillai,DC books, 2005 pp 28–29 has mentioned about existance various theories about the origin of M.E. But he gives the most importance to the 2nd one above. The Nestorian's fled from the Islamic conquests and chose korukeNikollam( a Famous trade centre as a refuge. They established a church,colony and invited a bishop/matron from persia. This was during 824-825 and they stated a new era. They called year kollam thondriya aanT(somebody please translate)!!! . Since they were aginst the roman church they were against Anno Domina or the Islamic era they had go for calender of their own. Nestorians were merchants when trade flourished their dates started to be used widely. The problem was the difficulty in accepting that christians started the era and various interpreations flourished Even the Kerala Government quotes Herman Gundert ("according to Herman Gundert") without any references that it was durng the time of udaya marthaNTa vaRma a shiva temple was built and during its consecration( which was the start of harvest season(chingam) the era was started. And most of them refer to this Gundert Quote

Since the content doesn't make encyclopedic sense, I'm moving it here. Once some one understands what he tries to say, please add it back to the History with some reference. This seemed more of a comment rather than the actual article content.--Manuspanicker (talk) 05:09, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 27 May 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved. EdJohnston (talk) 02:03, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Kollam Era → Kollam era – The page was recently moved from Malayalam calendar to Kollam Era. It should be Kollam era per naming conventions. See other similar articles like Seleucid era and Spanish era. --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 19:20, 3 June 2015 (UTC) Malayala Sahityam (talk) 16:22, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Support per naming conventions. ONR (talk) 21:01, 6 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 15 January 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Unopposed for over a week and restoring a long-standing title. Jenks24 (talk) 05:19, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Kollam era → Malayalam calendar – See Article titles. This page should be titled in its English language title. The page for long existed under this target name, but was moved recently. See articles of other Hindu calendars - Punjabi calendar, Tamil calendar, Tulu calendar, Bengali calendar etc. Snowcream (talk) 13:35, 15 January 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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