Talk:Masaoka Shiki

Untitled
I am deleting the External link that was just added by 207.61.5.143. First of all, the link, as added, didn't work. Even when I found the correct link, all it did was connect to an abstract and not to the article. Finally, the article is only some speculation about the ideas of a psychologist that may or may not have been based upon Shiki's life, and really has nothing directly to do with the life and work of Masaoka Shiki. gK [[User talk:GK|&iquest;?]] 19:04, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

For those who don't want to dig through the page history, here is what I deleted:

Morita, founder of Morita therapy, and haiku poet Shiki: origin of Morita therapy,  Moriyama N.,  Jpn J Psychiatry Neurol. 1991 Dec;45(4):787-96. Although Morita Shoma had no personal acquaintance with Shiki, they did have three common friends in Terada, Wakao and Katori. Considering this, as well as the renown of Shiki's works, Morita may have been deeply impressed by his approach to life.

Masaoka Shiki and baseball
"He is also the person who replaced the borrowed English words used in baseball with Sino-Japanese words and phrases (during WWII, when an effort was made to expunge foreign western words from the language)"

I thought the wording of the above sentence was a little strange.

Since Masaoka Shiki died in 1902, he could not have been the person who replaced the borrowed English words used in baseball during WWII. Perhaps instead he might have been responsible for earlier coining the words and phrases that were later adopted during WWII in an attempt to expunge the Japanese language of foreign influence? Since I don't know the specifics I left the article as is. Someone who knows more than me might think about rewording that sentence.

Maybe if that sentence was broken into two sentences it would not seem as strange.


 * * I think it's worth including something about his baseball interest as he was an avid fan and player and at least responsible in some part for popularizing the sport in Japan. According to the Shiki-Kinen Museum in Matsuyama, he did coin various baseball terms that are still in use today. I can't remember the details though... Vorpaul 09:36, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Consolidation needed?
There is more and different information in Haiku Tesspub (talk) 11:48, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Shiki?
Where, when, and [in] what context did he get the name Shiki? Is it what in English would be called a "pen name," or is it a formal form of address? A standardized name for the sake of this English article, together with a foreigner-understandable statement of what happened when, might reduce the awkward phrase "X (who was then known as Y)." 128.147.28.1 (talk) 16:03, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

The article for Basho provides an example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.147.28.1 (talk) 15:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Edits to Literary Career section
Editor Fleetham here changed this text
 * Contemporary to Shiki was the idea that traditional Japanese poetic short forms, such as the haiku and tanka, were waning due to their incongruity in the modern Meiji Period.

to this:
 * Contemporary to Shiki was the idea that traditional Japanese poetic short forms, such as tanka but also the relatively more recent haiku, were waning due to their incongruity in the modern Meiji Period

with the edit summary: "edit to distinguish tanka from haiku"

I reverted on the basis that the change added nothing useful, and that tanka was already distinct from haiku, and the edit unnecessarily complicated a straightforward sentence. The same editor then reverted me here with the edit summary: "feel its imp. as haikai was popularized in the Edo period and waka has a hist. 100X longer"

That summary appears to indicate a certain confusion. Haiku and tanka are both terms assigned by Shiki himself to hokku and waka respectively. Since the former have been around in one form or another 600 or 700 years before the period under discussion, to throw in the idea that "haiku" are relatively (relative to what?) more recent than tanka, is completely irrelevant here. Is there any reason Fleetham 's edit should not be reverted? --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 20:23, 14 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Well isn't haikai no renga only as recent as the medieval periods? And haiku as a stand-alone form only popularized during the Edo period by Basho et al.? Waka are in the Man'yōshū. Fleetham (talk) 21:17, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Haiku was the term applied first by Shiki to stand-alone hokku. Hokku have been around for some 800 years, and they have always had the quality of being stand-alone, either potentially or actually. See Carter's Haiku before Haiku; Ramirez-Christensen's Heart's Flower; Horton's The Journal of Sōchō, all of which contain numerous standalone hokku. Although I don't see the relevance of when haikai renga originated, your assertion is in any case incorrect, as the last of those books also includes several haikai passages. --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 22:04, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, well you seem more informed than I am about the subject. I was thinking that waka was traditional Japanese short form poetry and haiku much newer and so perhaps placing them both in the same category would be inadvisable. I'll revert my edit. Fleetham (talk) 23:54, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130624021929/http://www.shikian.or.jp/sikian2-2.htm to http://www.shikian.or.jp/sikian2-2.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930230321/http://haiku.cc.ehime-u.ac.jp/~shiki/sm/sm.html to http://haiku.cc.ehime-u.ac.jp/~shiki/sm/sm.html

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