Talk:Medjugorje

Pope Benedict laicizes Vlasic
Vatican City, Jul 27, 2009 / 12:17 pm (CNA).- Pope Benedict XVI has approved the laicization of Fr. Tomislav Vlasic, a priest leading the claims that the Virgin Mary has been appearing in the Bosnian town of Medjugorje. The priest has reportedly decided to leave the priesthood and his religious order.

The action follows an investigation into concerns surrounding the alleged apparitions, the Mail Online reports.

When the apparitions allegedly began in 1981, Fr. Vlasic was named as the "creator" of the phenomenon by the local Bishop of Mostar-Duvno, Pavao Zanic.

Fr. Vlasic became the "spiritual advisor" of the six children involved in the supposed apparitions. The children now say that the Virgin Mary has visited them 40,000 times over the last 28 years.

On January 25, 2008, Fr. Vlasic was suspended by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

An inquiry was made into allegations that he exaggerated stories of the Virgin Mary's appearance, taught "dubious doctrine," manipulated consciences, engaged in "suspect mysticism" and disobeyed legitimately issued orders. He was also investigated for sexual immorality after he allegedly made a nun pregnant, the Daily Mail says.

Fr. Vlasic was sent to a monastery in Lombardy, Italy and was forbidden to communicate with anyone without the permission of his superior. He was also required to take a course of theological-spiritual formation and make a solemn profession of faith.

On Sunday it emerged that Fr. Vlasic has chosen to leave the priesthood and his religious order.

Pope Benedict approved of his laicization in March, thus removing his priestly status.

== Pope finally launches crackdown on world's largest illicit Catholic shrine and suspends 'dubious' priest ==

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1052230/Pope-finally-launches-crackdown-worlds-largest-illicit-Catholic-shrine-suspends-dubious-priest.html#ixzz0X4v0EUVY

By Simon Caldwell

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1052230/Pope-finally-launches-crackdown-worlds-largest-illicit-Catholic-shrine-suspends-dubious-priest.html#ixzz0X4v0EUVY

in 1985 Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger – now Pope Benedict – banned pilgrimages to the site, but this has been widely ignored.

Instead the seers have grown wealthy as a result of their claims – and so has their town, which has boomed as a result of the ‘Madonna gold rush’.

Some (of the false seers) today own smart executive houses with immaculate gardens, double garages and security gates, and one has a tennis court.

They also own expensive cars and have married – one of them, Ivan Dragicevic, to an American former beauty queen.

Update: excommunicated for being head of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Whole Universe, a member of the Central Nucleus (both assuredly equally Mormonesque) and living in sin with some random frau Johnpfmcguire (talk) 01:14, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150513043659/http://www.fzs.ba/PopisNaseljenaM.pdf to http://www.fzs.ba/PopisNaseljenaM.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131208191809/http://tzcitluk.com/stecci.html to http://www.tzcitluk.com/stecci.html
 * Added tag to http://medjugorje.hr.nt4.ims.hr/Main.aspx?mv=4&qp=MToxOjI%3D
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090207065936/http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view to http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=146656436&blogID=226609905
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130927200247/http://www.jutarnji.hr/template/article/article-print.jsp?id=190980 to http://www.jutarnji.hr/template/article/article-print.jsp?id=190980
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080821133610/http://www.law.nyu.edu/eecr/vol10num2_3/constitutionwatch/bosnia.html to http://www1.law.nyu.edu/eecr/vol10num2_3/constitutionwatch/bosnia.html

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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101012131806/http://www.medjugorje.de/medjugorje/medjugorje/ortspfarrer.html to http://www.medjugorje.de/medjugorje/medjugorje/ortspfarrer.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080901034504/http://www.fr-online.de/in_und_ausland/kultur_und_medien/feuilleton/1584941_Die-Toten-die-es-nicht-gab.html to http://www.fr-online.de/in_und_ausland/kultur_und_medien/feuilleton/1584941_Die-Toten-die-es-nicht-gab.html

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Franciscan killed by the communists
"66 Catholic friars of the Franciscan order were killed by the communists." How about mentioning that a number of Franciscans in Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina openly supported the fascist Croatian regime of the Ustasha during the 2WW and allegedly participated in war crimes? There's two sides to the conflict. And by the way, citing church-related sources is not very unbiased.--2003:6F:8C1A:77A9:195D:DCB4:773C:4387 (talk) 19:33, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Pilgrimage
Greetings.

I think the whole section should be significantly reduced. I'll go paragraph by paragraph, and colour the sentence that I think should be out (or replaced in some other way) in red.

"The shrine of Medjugorje has become a popular pilgrimages site for Catholics. and has turned into Europe's third most important apparition site, where each year more than 1 million people visit. It has been estimated that 30 million pilgrims have come to Međugorje since the reputed apparitions began in 1981."


 * This one sentence explains very briefly about Our Lady of Medjugorje and should stay there. You are right there is a link there if the reader wants to know more. Red Rose 13 (talk) 19:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

The below paragraph as a whole is unnecessary, it discusses in detail the juridical process against Zovko in a section that is actually about the history of the village. This is why we have the notification that the main article is Our Lady of Medjugorje, where a reader can learn more if they choose to.


 * Hello Governor Sheng I agree that the section about Zovko is too long for this page.I shortened it to one sentence and added it to the end of the paragraph above. That paragraph conveys to the reader how it was under communist rule.Red Rose 13 (talk) 19:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)


 * In 1981 as soon as reports began of the Marian apparitions on Crnica hill in the Bijakovići hamlet, confrontations with Yugoslav state authorities began. Pilgrims were forbidden from coming,[13] the pilgrim's donations were seized by the police and access to what was called the Apparition Hill was largely blocked.

Having said all of this. There should be a rather brief explanation of what happened. For example:

"Six youngsters reported having a vision of Our Lady in 1981. The authorities at first opposed the organised pilgrimages but then supported them for economic reasons. The local church deemed the apparitions to be false, with the Yugoslav Episcopal Conference ruling that the supernaturality of the apparitions cannot be established, advising further research. [...] Eventually, the sight attracted X number of pilgrims, tourists etc etc."

The description of the events should be very brief, and the section should focus on the economic aspects the pilgrimage had on the village's economy, demographics etc. Governor Sheng (talk) 16:48, 14 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Besides the changes we discussed regarding the opening sentence and shortening Zovko to a couple sentences. Everything else can stay. I am open to adding a little more to it but like you said keeping it short. The local Bishop first believed the children but then deemed the apparitions false. The Vatican did their own investigation called the Ruini report and decided to allow official pilgrimages. Red Rose 13 (talk) 19:31, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm aware of all you're saying, but we shouldn't discuss the details. Whether the bishop believed at first and then changed his opinion isn't relevant for this particular article. Governor Sheng (talk) 19:46, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

How about this, if I can ask you for half an hour of your free time to write your version of historical events, briefly, only the most significant parts that really had an impact on the whole issue. For example, the bishop's original stance wasn't relevant to the development of the phenomenon, on the other hand, his opposition was, and so forth. And maybe, we can squeeze the period from 1981 to 1991 into two or three paragraphs at most? Thx --Governor Sheng (talk) 19:52, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok that sounds good to me but give me a few days to get to it.Red Rose 13 (talk) 16:26, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * No probs. :) Governor Sheng (talk) 17:47, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry it took me so long. I have given it some thought and I don't think it is necessary to say much more about OLM on this page. If they want to know more than can go to the OLM page, don't you think? If you think we need more perhaps one small paragraph about the fact that the Bishop Zanic or Bishop Peric didn't believe the visions were real. And the final investigative commission which was created by the Vatican, the Ruini Commission, conclusion was that the commission endorsed the end of the ban on pilgrimages organized in Medjugorje. It was recommended by the commission that the town's parish Church of St. James be made a pontifical shrine with Vatican oversight. The Ruini Report was completed in 2014 and was received by Pope Francis. Pope Francis supports pastoral care of the pilgrims. Or something like this... or nothing and they can read about on the OLM page.Red Rose 13 (talk) 03:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree with this in principle. I'll write a short paragraph, and you can fix it later. Sorry for replying late as well. :) Governor Sheng (talk) 19:48, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * We must have had a miscommunication for you to think it is ok to delete a whole section. I wrote that what was in the section, that I just returned, was enough and nothing else needed to be added or shortened about OLM on this page. Leave the section as it is. thank youRed Rose 13 (talk) 20:30, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * ok Governor Sheng (talk) 20:32, 6 May 2023 (UTC)