Talk:Mel Sembler

Vandalism from Sembler.com domain
As recently as Feb 3rd of 2012, IP addresses from within the sembler.com domain have been deleting content from this page. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/208.69.24.150 I have posted a comment on that users talk page clarifying that it is obvious that this user either works for Mel Sembler or is Mel Sembler himself. However I suspect it will likely never be read by the user. I will continue to watch this page and if needed propose a block of the sembler.com ip space, and/or partial page protection if it seems warranted. Snertking (talk) 22:20, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Other IP's in that range seen deleting content from this article: 208.69.24.243, 208.69.24.131, 208.69.24.149, 208.69.24.129, 208.69.24.128, 208.69.24.251, 208.69.24.156 208.69.24.51 etc., etc. - i think we need a block on 208.69.24.0/24

Arguably a clear pattern of vandalism coming from sembler.com domainSnertking (talk) 23:28, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Also worth noting, from tracert of 67.8.215.169, which deleted content in feb 2011:

15   64 ms   123 ms    68 ms  ROADRUNNER.bar1.Orlando1.Level3.net [4.79.11 16   68 ms   118 ms    70 ms  be1-60g.orld71-car1.bhn.net [72.31.194.9] 17  156 ms   139 ms    68 ms  ten0-0-0-0.orld62-ser1.bhn.net [97.69.193.41 18  156 ms    66 ms    68 ms  ten1-0-0-orld62-cts1.bhn.net [72.31.195.29] 19    *        *        *     Request timed out.

Brighthouse networks business internet, clearly in the Orlando area. Quite suspicious. Snertking (talk) 23:06, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Full list of links for anyone who is screaming "prove it!":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/208.69.24.150

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/208.69.24.243

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/208.69.24.131

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/208.69.24.149

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/208.69.24.129

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/208.69.24.128

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/208.69.24.251

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/208.69.24.156

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/208.69.24.51

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/208.69.24.127

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/208.69.24.229

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/208.69.24.85

That is 12 different machines all in the sembler.com domain used to edit the article. Possibly trying to avoid having single IP's flagged for vandalism/edit warring. Snertking (talk) 00:33, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

AlterNet article
John Gorenfeld, cited in the Wikipedia entry, wrote a lengthy article on Sembler and STRAIGHT in November 2005, available at http://www.alternet.org/story/27725/?comments=view&cID=54385&pID=54310. The material in this story needs to be incorporated into the article. A few other notes: the material about Sembler's shopping malls being "creative" and "environmentally friendly" needs to be cited, and Sembler's new position as Joseph Lieberman's political advisor needs to be included. Also, this article is too lengthy to be a stub. 68.221.254.108 22:27, 23 September 2006 (UTC)Black Max, 9-22-06


 * Isn't vandalizing a page a violation of the Wikipedia TOS? And as per the Aaron Schwartz case, it seems the feds now seem to feel a TOS violation is a felony under the computer fraud and abuse act. Just sayin...

50.133.160.189 (talk) 01:27, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Link
I think the information presented about the former ambassador on   http://www.melsembler.com should be available to those wanting to learn about him. I'm not sure why this link was taken down.

The allegations against Mel Sembler are extremely serious and have been testified to in Congressional hearings and on television and radio by dozens of victims. They are well-sourced. Warfreak, you are kindly requested not to revert again without giving a reason!

Clean Up
Ok, I've gone through and cleaned up the page. Stuff done includes:


 * Fixed references and cleaned up doubling in external links
 * Removed the long list of allegations, this has been concisely summarised and readers are able to follow the links to view all of them
 * Fixed up doubling of information in careers and shortened introduction, shuffled sections to make easier reading
 * Removed POV, including unsourced allegations that he was appointed to diplomatic corps just because he was a fund raiser and subjective qualifiers.

Please raise any issues on my talk page Guycalledryan 09:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Sembler Company
The Sembler company has been removing seemingly reliable sourced information. I've asked them to bring up any problems on this talk page. I will be going over the article in the distant future to check the sources and make sure they're valid, but if another editor can do it before me and post here that would be great Guycalledryan 07:09, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * User:208.69.24.229 has been removing the same information. I've left a message on their talk page asking them to raise any problems here. Trugster | Talk 19:30, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it is worth noting that rDNS for 208.69.24.229 resolves to 208-69-24-229.sembler.com when checked on March 5, 2012 Snertking (talk) 20:17, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Straight abuse Section
I have further cleaned up this section, removing allegations that cited dead links, were not notable, were demonstratably untrue or did not have citations.Snertking (talk) 08:55, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Added section about Ray Bradbury penis pump lawsuit and controversy, as this received a lot of press coverage between 2003-2006. Would seem to meet WP:BLP guidelines and not be WP:UNDUE Cited sources that are WP:RS 107.3.62.19 (talk) 02:58, 5 April 2012 (UTC)


 * To further clarify, as a former United States ambassador, he is a public figure. WP:BLP guidelines state scandal or public controversy, when backed by wp:rs sources do belong in wp:blp articles of public figures. An example given is "A politician is alleged to have had an affair. He or she denies it, but The New York Times and other newspapers publish the allegations, and there is a public scandal. The allegation belongs in the biography, citing those sources."
 * This was a public scandal with many pieces about it published in several notable newspapers, a small sampling of which have been cited for this article Snertking (talk) 20:12, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Owning a penis pump is not the equivalent of having an extramarital affair. The North Country Gazette is not The New York Times. One could argue that there is a public interest in knowing if a politician is having an affair - it may speak to his trustworthiness or, if he's publicly described himself as a "family man" it may be spark an allegation of hypocrisy. There is no conceivable public interest in knowing whether a politician has erectile dysfunction - particularly when the man in question has not held public office for 6 years. The accuser, who has a history of attacking Sembler and breaking the law to do so, has no credibility here. GabrielF (talk) 05:59, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * there were about 6 sources cited, including articles the St. Petersburg Times, Huffington Post and Tampa Bay times. This was a notable scandal/controversy at the time and got lots of press coverage, and is therefore not a WP:BLP issue. To Further clarify, it was the amount of presss covereage the incident garnered, not the erectile dysfunction or penis pump itself that is being noted. Edited reverted. Snertking (talk) 06:22, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I also note that you deleted well sourced information about litigation against the Straight program which Mr. Sembler founded, as well as other things such as reference to the doonesbury cartoon lampooning Mr. Sembler without noting why you feel that such information raises BLP issues. Snertking (talk) 06:47, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Given your seeming systematic removal of well sourced information unflattering to Mr. Sembler from the article (you did not just remove the pump lawsuit information, but well documented lawsuits against Straight as well as reference to the doonesbury cartoon without citing WHY these do not conform to WP:BLP) This would seem to be merely vandalism on your part. Snertking (talk) 07:09, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I have added a cite from the Washington Post now as well. It should be undeniable at this point there there was a "flurry of press coverage" as is now asserted, since 8 seperate news articles are now cited referencing the story. Snertking (talk) 08:17, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I DO agree with your edit removing low-quality external link per WP:EL, and am rather sorry i did not catch and remove that one myself.Snertking (talk) 07:01, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Since point being made was lawsuit brought press attention, ED and the fact pump was an ED pump are really not neccessary info. Have removed penile references. Snertking (talk) 09:36, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Large amounts of unsourced content
I am in the process of going through and adding cites for content. There is a large amount of it that looks as if it may be simply cut and pasted from the sembler.com website. Arguably this man has made many positive contributions over the years, and that content needs to be as well sourced as the critical here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snertking (talk • contribs) 00:53, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Still needs lots of work. Lot of text is clearly cut and paste job from official bio on his website. have paraphrased some of it and added cite to same bio on USDOS website which is arguably more wp:rs than the sembler.com site, even if bio there is exact same document as on sembler site.Snertking (talk) 03:17, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Poor references
I propose to remove current reference #24 to the North County Gazette, which is a 404 "page not found" error. This newspaper threatens to sue non-subscribers who read more than one article on their website. Also, I propose to remove the two Huffington Post references, now #26 and #28, which are advocacy opinion pieces with tabloid style headlines. These are justifications of the harassment of Sembler, not legitimate news stories. Use of such overtly biased sources violates WP:BLP in my judgment.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  17:11, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree that the HuffPo articles are unacceptable. A 404 error from a local newspaper hundreds of miles away is also not particularly helpful. However, I still think the entire section needs to be deleted and that view seems to have been endorsed at WP:ANI. GabrielF (talk) 17:20, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I also support removing the entire section as it gives undue weight to something fairly minor in the long life of a man born in 1930, because it serves to perpetuate the violation of his medical privacy because the sources linked discuss intimate medical diagnoses, and because inclusion in this biography continues and records for no good reason the harassment he has suffered.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  17:35, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Support removal of the section. There's an injunction barring Bradbury from coming within 1000 feet of Sembler, so he has presumably been rendered harmless; I'm ashamed to see Wikipedia take his place and invade Sembler's privacy all over again. Not much point in speaking in euphemisms in the actual text when the section serves to bring such reference headers as and to the attention of Wikipedia readers, is there? Remove the whole thing. It has absolutely no similarity with the "politician is alleged to have had an affair" example adduced by Snertking in a section above. Bishonen &#124; talk 09:08, 14 September 2013 (UTC).


 * I removed it. I only recall seeing one editor who wants the material (here, and at WP:BLPN, and at WP:ANI). An encyclopedic article does not need to perpetuate an attack by one individual with a grudge. If an incident had real-world effects apart from LOLs on one side and irritation on the other (such as a significant resignation or withdrawal from a project), and if those effects were discussed in a secondary source, there may be reason to include a mention of the issue. However, the removed text is essentially of the form "person X found a way to poke person Y, and the media used it to fill space". That is not useful here. Johnuniq (talk) 09:48, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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