Talk:Melbourne/Archive 1

'''This is an archive of discussion on the Talk page for the article on Melbourne. Please do not modify this page; direct any new discussion to the active talk page.'''

By the way, I see that Melbourne, Florida is a town of ~70,000 people. Seeing that we're talking about a city of ~3.5 million, I think Melbourne deserves the Melbourne page (particularly if Sydney gets Sydney rather than Sydney, New South Wales) :) --Robert Merkel

Too many big city shots scanned from postcards on this page. You really only need maximum of two long shots, and then a couple of close-ups. Can we get more photos of prominent buildings, parks, bridges and streets, trams etc?

should the major media in Melbourne be mentioned - The Herald-Sun and The Age newspapers etc?


 * Will do. --Robert Merkel 12:59 7 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Just wondering why Melbourne is related to Sydney in terms of it's location. ("800kms Southwest of Sydney"). Sydney's page doesn't say 800kms NE of Melbourne, and surely Melbourne can stand on its own by being "in Port Phillip Bay" and surrounded by the Dandenong Ranges etc... as has been done with the Sydney article... Forgive me if I'm picking a bit, but I just dislike having Melbourne as a "poorer cousin" to Sydney, and to me it almost constitutes POV. If you were going to relate it to another city in Australia, relate it to Canberra. Just my two cents. Neolux 17:20, 1 Aug 2003 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. Nothing like a bit of Sydney-Melbourne rivalry :-) --Robert Merkel 23:46, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)

--

Great article, but the information about Brunswick Street feels conversational, with a POV, rather than encycolpedic. While I'm sure the information is accurate, could it be reworded to sound more factual rather than impressionistic?

--Moncrief 23:46, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Nurg, (reffering to Rialto Towers), I think it is the tallest in the southern hemisphere, I'm not aware of it's being surpassed. What I'm referring to however, is the tallest skyscraper, not including observation towers, such as Sydney Tower, which is taller. Prehaps what I had was ambiguous in that way, however, as far as I know, the Rialto is still the hemisphere's tallest skyscraper.

Hypernovean 10:52, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Okay, I've created a list of Melbourne suburbs at List of localities (Victoria), as well as stubs for all the city councils in the metro area. If anyone reading this has some spare time, please spend a minute or two writing some info about your suburb. Just basic things like major roads, train stations, schools, parks, shopping centres, etc.

Help much appreciated :) AmishThrasher

To AmishThrasher, southernmost is what I meant to say! Thanks for correcting it. Hypernovean 05:56, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I have created the Timeline of Melbourne history page and linked it in, please add any events and dates you can. Hypernovean 07:31, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I dispute that Chunky Move is "Australia's best known contemporary dance company". I've never heard of them. The Sydney Dance Company would be the first one I think of. Perhaps CM is Victoria's best known? dmmaus 12:03, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * The Sydney Dance Company would be the first one I think of. Because I see you're from Sydney. No offence, but from a quick Googling, Chunky Move seem to be quite well known internationally.


 * Okay, no problem. I just wanted some sort of confirmation. That's why I asked instead of editing. :-) dmmaus 12:33, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * How do we know what is Australia's best known contemporary dance company? It's unverifiable. I don't think it belongs at all. Ambivalenthysteria 13:59, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * Of course we can't totally verifiably say that Chunky Move are "Australia's best known contemporary dance company" since no one's done teh survey, however with my somewhat limited knowledge of contemporary dance, they are quite well-known and quite prestigious, and I think they'd unarguably be the most prestigious Australian contemporary dance company. So leave it as it is. user:wilful

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=chunky+move&word2=Sydney-Dance+Company

Put the quotes in and the result is reversed: 211.28.152.172 06:04, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22chunky+move%22&word2=%22Sydney-Dance+Company%22

WikiProject Melbourne
I have created the preliminary page for the WikiProject Melbourne. Please feel free to add something here, as the project is still in formulation. The primrary aim is to fill in the rail network and suburbs. The scope could expand to other elements of the city in future. Those interested in working on the above topics, please add your names to the project and join in the discussion. (There are as yet no templates or guidelines for articles, this will be updated soon). Hypernovean 08:38, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Why is the information under Snippets there? It seems detached from the rest of the article and better suited to an article somewhere else. Ambivalenthysteria 05:27, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Public transport in Melbourne
the public transport section is too large. needs to be moved to Public transport in Melbourne. --Hemanshu 16:24, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * It might be better to go to Railways in Melbourne and Buses in Melbourne; as there are already Metcard and Trams in Melbourne pages, and there's a lot regarding history, privization, etc. etc. for each area. TPK 11:15, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * I think there's room for both. What's there now would make a good Public transport in Melbourne, but there's also room for expanded articles on railways and buses. Ambivalenthysteria 11:46, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Agree with the above. Have just moved much of the Metcard/Ticketing text into Metcard.  PC 02:09, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Sorry to be blunt but could someone please get rid of the SAMPA stuff and revert to plain English description of the pronounciation. PMA 18:02, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * It's back again. I've told the anon user we've decided on "MEL-buhn", and asked he/she to discuss it if he/she thinks its absolutely neccessary. TPK 02:31, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks! :) Ambivalenthysteria 02:34, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * The problem appears to be in making sure the pronunciation is Australian and not American; not just SAMPA-rising it. But I think MEL-buhn is how we would say it, Americans tend to pronounce it more like mel-BORN. But maybe it would be better with the 'h', i.e. MEL-bun? It is hard to get pronounciations right! TPK 02:46, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Hm, you're right there. I don't know. They're both right, damnit. My only issue with with "MEL-bun" is that it's perhaps a slangish shortening. Ambivalenthysteria 02:51, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Does not hurt to have SAMPA. It just gives a better idea of pronunciation than just simple pronunciation, especially for the -uh- part, which is pronounced as a schwa. The simple pronunciation is still mentioned. --203.220.171.232 12:47, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I am getting sick and tired of revert wars about pronunciation keys. Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Isn't there something more productive these users could be doing? - Mark 08:18, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Public transport section
I removed the obvious vandalism from the leading section still in the article, but it seems to me that the rest of this has been NPOVed quite a bit. I'm leaving it here for now as it's planned to move all this to seperate pages anyway.

Metcard ticketing
All forms of public transport can be accessed by using a single ticket - the Metcard. Metcards come in a variety of forms, ranging from 2 hours to yearly, all using the same tickets by programming the magnetic strip. Metcards are 'validated' when entering or exiting railway stations, and getting on trams or buses. However, most suburban train stations are unstaffed and can easily be entered without a ticket, and trams no longer have conductors. Ticket inspectors randomly check trains and trams, but their sometimes heavy-handed tactics have resulted in public discontent and even court cases, with at least four successful assault convictions and numerous disciplinary sackings.

It is important to know Your Rights and responsibilities when travelling on Melbourne's Public Transport.

The public transport system is broken up into three ticketing Zones: Zone 1 (Yellow), Zone 2 (Blue), and Zone 3 (Red). Tickets are valid within the selected Zone or Zones only (however, tickets of weekly or longer duration may be used in any Zone on weekends). A tourist would be unlikely to need more than a Zone 1 ticket, which can purchased on board trams or buses, at train stations, at most newsagents or milk bars, and the transport shop within the Melbourne Town Hall on Swanston Street, and costs (as at January 2004) $5.80 AUD for an daily ticket. Avoid using ticket machines where possible, but carry coins for the tram-based ticket machines, and always insert a low value coin first in case the machine is not working properly.

Trams
One notable feature of the Melbourne landscape is mobile - the omnipresent tram. Melbourne is the only Australian city to retain its tram network, which links the CBD with many inner suburbs. In fact, Melbourne's network is amongst the largest in the world, and is still slowly growing, though services between tram lines bypassing the CBD area are few and far between. The classic green-and-cream W-class trams were once marketed as a symbol of Melbourne, though Yarra Trams has recently stopped their promotion, to help convey the impression that the system is modern. These traditional wooden trams have been relegated to serve only a few inner-city routes. The best way to see them is by taking the free City Circle tourist loop around the CBD. They also operate on Route 30 and are making a gradual comeback on Routes 78 and 79. Many trams today are covered in all-over advertising.

In 2001, the first of 36 new Citadis and 59 new Combino low-floor trams arrived in the city. These new trams were complemented by a massive upgrade of a few city tram stops beginning in 2002. These new "super stops" significantly improve shelter, accessibility, information and safety for travellers, though much of the information conveyed is out of date and inaccurate, the shelter offered is minimal, and seating provision is often sparse at the newer super stops. Yarra Trams invariably tries to move the stops further away from the locations served, most notably moving the stop at Collins and Spencer Streets further away from Spencer Street Station, the city's main rail terminal, to a new location outside Transport House.

During 2003, Yarra Trams began a program to remove over one-third of the seats from its B-class trams, with 28 out of 74 seats removed from Tram 2015, still missing to this day. A community campaign began to fight this move, led by the Public Transport Users Association, which was threatened with legal action by Yarra Trams. The move was intended to create space for more standing passengers and alleviate the need to run more services, and provide space for wheelchairs (though with no apparent means of allowing wheelchairs to climb the three steps to board the tram). They attempted to scale down the seat removals when Tram 2018 was modified in the months following. Despite a few attempts to resurrect the program, including a very short lived trial on A class tram 259, Yarra Trams appears to have given up.

See also: Trams in Melbourne, Australia, List of Melbourne tram routes.

Trains
The centre of Melbourne's extensive suburban rail network is Flinders Street Station. There are 16 electrified routes, radiating out of the City Loop. The City Loop contains Melbourne's two central stations, Flinders Street and Spencer Street stations, as well as the underground stations Parliament, Melbourne Central (formerly Museum) and Flagstaff. There are 4 separate tunnels connecting these three underground stations, and an elevated viaduct between the two surface stations. Melbourne's train fleet consists of the common Comeng trains, recently refurbished, and the older Hitachi trains, which are not air conditioned and, in the city's summer heat, despised by commuters. However, these trains will progressively be replaced by new X'Trapolis and Siemens trains.

Ironically, the Hitachi trains are the only Melbourne trains that operate reliably in hot weather. Air conditioning in the newer trains is not designed for extreme conditions, and regularly fails to operate on hot days and at any time when the train passes through an area where overhead current is inadequate (such as Heidelberg to Rosanna). The inability of Comeng and other newer trains to function reliably on hot days has led people to unfairly deduce that the older Hitachi trains are intentionally provided on the hottest days, and it is unknown whether those services could be delivered at all once they are withdrawn.

The hub of the Victorian regional rail network, operated mostly by VLine, is Spencer Street Station. This may soon be renamed "Southern Cross Station", despite the objections of many locals.

See also: List of Melbourne railway stations.

Buses
Melbourne is a sprawling metropolis, and many suburbs beyond the inner and middle metropolitan areas are not covered by its tram or train networks. In these areas, buses theoretically do the work of linking commuters to the train network, large local shopping centres, suburban commercial and industrial districts, and other suburban destinations.

Their usefulness is negligible, save for a few routes that have maintained useful service levels since being run by the Melbourne & Metropolitan Tramways Board. These are Routes 20x, 21x, 246, 25x, 30x, 340 and 350. Some upgrades have recently taken place on Routes 571, 703, 888/889 and 896, and there is a plan to improve service on Route 700 during 2005. Most other routes may as well be discounted as nonexistent as the average service runs every 50 minutes, ceases at 6.30pm, and offers no service evenings, Saturday afternoons or Sundays.

See also: List of Melbourne bus routes.

Snippets
Why, oh why has this been in there so long? Someone please find a proper home for it. TPK 10:17, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * An Arctic Tern was found in October 1982 on Melbourne's beach. Ringed as a young chick not yet able to fly on the Farne Islands, Northumberland, UK in late June 1982, it had completed the 22,000km (shortest sea route) journey in no more than 3 months.


 * Thanks - I posted about this months ago, somewhere, but don't recall ever getting a response. I'd been meaning to remove it ever since. Ambi 11:59, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * This 'snippet' is already on the Arctic Tern page. - Mark 05:39, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Verify edit
Could someone verify this edit? A quick google throws up random dates, 1834, and both May and August 1835 - -- Chuq 07:05, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I think we're opening a can of worms here. A quick google turns up about ten different dates. However, the museum's site seems to support the anon edit, so I could go with that. Ambi 08:41, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Yeah, this link proposes August 1835. http://www.onlymelbourne.com.au/melbourne_details.php?id=776 &mdash; SimonEast 03:32, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Some suggested additions
Great article from an expat Melburnian's POV. However, I feel there are a few missing things. I do not really know enough about most of these to consider adding them but all the best to the team working on this project. --CloudSurfer 20:38, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't a lat and long be useful in location? (37&deg; 50' S 145&deg; 0' E).
 * What about a map of Melbourne with a small inset of Australia to give it a better feel for the location for those overseas who really have no idea where it is. (I will have a go at doing this.)
 * What is the area covered by the city and suburbs?
 * Isn't Melbourne on an old basaltic lava plain?
 * The Heidelberg school of art - arguably the quintessential Australian art movement - doesn't crack a mention.
 * One of Melbourne's assets in the days of sailing ships was that she was ideally located as the first major mainland port of call in Australia for ships following the "roaring 40s".
 * In the transport section there is no mention of the road system, bridges and freeways. Neither do taxis crack a mention other than in the picture. Disabled access taxis are worth mentioning.
 * Aren't Captain Cook's cottage and Healesville sanctuary worthy of a mention in landmarks and tourist information?
 * Is it worth mentioning that the various shopping strips in Melbourne developed along many of the old cable tram routes and this has led to many of the current "restaurant strips" and much of the "feel" of the city?
 * Are the avenues of Melbourne worth a mention? StKilda Rd, Royal Pde etc. And the fact that the outlying suburbs failed to comply with these wide roads which lead to the current "goat track" of Sydney road for instance. I have a vague recollection there is a whole history of this occuring during a depression when the outlying cities were strapped for cash.
 * The history of the Australian cinema revival in Melbourne with films like "Picnic at Hanging Rock" etc. is probably worth mentioning.


 * All excellent ideas for further improvement. --Robert Merkel 21:43, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * As per my promise, here is a map of Melbourne. If you want it changed in any way, let me know as I still have the orginal Adobe Illustrator file.


 * --CloudSurfer 23:31, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Excellent! Did you make it yourself? Because it looks really good. :) Ambi 00:12, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Sure did. Traced the outlines from another map and then did the legends etc. So, if you want anything added, deleted or altered then let me know. For instance, I did wonder if it should have a distance bar in miles.


 * By the way, the original map I uploaded is quite a bit larger so you can size it by changing the px value to your requirements. --CloudSurfer 00:18, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * What's that dot north-west of the airport supposed to be? Ambi 00:20, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Bacchus Marsh I think. I must have forgotten to label it or decided not to and then forgotten to take out the dot. Well spotted! I will change that soon but I suggest you look at the article and any plans for future elements of the article and then get back to me with any request.  Of course it would be very difficult to add things like Brunswick street or Chapel Street as they are so central, but Heidelberg would be easy. Similarly, arrows to the Great Ocean Road and Gippsland would be easy. --CloudSurfer 00:30, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Robert, you might be better off making the coat of arms "left" to reduce the blank space. --CloudSurfer 01:17, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

CloudSurfer, don't get me wrong, I think your map looks great, but it seems a little inaccurate, assuming that the brown area is urban land, compare it to Melbourne 2030's metro map. Not too serious, but just a mention, as I would put Werribee and Cranbourne e.g., well and truly in the metro area. I would also ask if it be possible to add the mainline railways as well as the freeways, and Avalon Airport, but it is pretty crowded as is. T.P.K. 02:24, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Not a problem. I am working here in Apia, Samoa, thousands of miles from my old home town. The built up area did seem small but it is not at all difficult to alter that and I will do that if it is easy to trace the map you have suggested. I'll have a look at the railways, but I have to have a map that shows them. Avalon should be easy to add, again if I can find a map that has it marked. By the way, I have removed the map from this page to speed loading. It is now on the main page. --CloudSurfer 02:33, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Sorry about this but the railways were just too hard. The map you mentioned seemed to be on a different projection and was hard to overlap. I have done the built up areas (approximately) as they sit at present but have not shaded the "growth areas" I have not shaded all the areas given and I think I have left Cranbourne out (sorry Cranbourne). I have added Avalon from memory so I hope it's close. Tracing the original map took about three hours so I am reluctant to start again from scratch. I seem to remember there was mention of an article on transport and perhaps that could link to a web railway map. Similarly a discussion on future growth could link to the 2030 site. When I drew this map it was really to help locate Melbourne for people who had no idea where it was. I then thought it would be useful if it mentioned some of the places mentioned in the article. The new map should load but you may still get the old one from your TMP directory. --CloudSurfer 03:33, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

A bit nitpicky, but, you have a number of major roads marked on the map but no Western Ring Road. Personally I think it belongs, though it's not exactly essential. Just thought I'd mention it in case you had missed it.

--Thedangerouskitchen 12:53, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * The map I traced didn't have the Western Ring Road. Sitting here in the middle of the South Pacific I have some limitations. I will try to find a map on the web that has it marked. --CloudSurfer 05:22, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Here is an image of Capt. Cook's cottage. --CloudSurfer 19:50, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Sydney-Melbourne rivalry
I have made an entry in the Talk:Sydney page suggesting an article on this. I think it would fun to read for all Melburnians and Sydneysiders. --CloudSurfer 05:22, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Here is a fascinating link that would be worth using: 1901: A socio-economic profile of Australia at Federation I am guessing that in 1880 the Melbourne/Sydney population difference was even greater. I haven't been able to find evidence of that though. --CloudSurfer 07:08, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * A little more searching reveals Changing patterns of population distribution in Australia which shows that in 1881 the total colony population percentages were NSW 33.3% Vic 38.3%, 1901 NSW 35.9% Vic 31.8%. Unfortunately, it doesn't give the city populations. --CloudSurfer 08:11, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Origin of Melbourne name
I think the article needs to mention that Melbourne was named after the then British Prime Minister Lord Melbourne - Grover9 19:12, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

How about the fact that Melbourne was almost named 'Batmania' after John Batman. Kind of interesting... - 12:23, Fri 1 Jul 2005 (EST)

Images
It would be nice to have some photos which are not of the central city skyline. I may try and take some suburban photos. Adam 06:37, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

maybe, stkilda rd, stkilda beach, vic market, williamstown, some tram line? Xtra 07:23, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well yes, but even they are mainly "Melbourne for tourists." How about Box Hill shopping centre? Bonbeach station? St Albans Catholic Church? A residential street in Endeavour Hills? Adam 08:54, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Somehow, I think I prefer Xtra's idea. A photo of a shopping centre, railway station, Catholic church, or residential street could be taken in Toronto, London, Paris, or here, and most people probably wouldn't know the difference. Ambi 02:51, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Whether Melbourne shopping centres do or don't look like Toronto ones isn't the point. The images I suggested show the reader what Melbourne looks like. This is an encyclopaedia not a tourist brochure. Adam 03:00, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * The images that Xtra suggested also show what Melbourne is like, as opposed to showing what practically any city in the entire Western world looks like. Ambi 03:26, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * still, those "tourist" things are still quite popular among melburnians, and make melbourne what it is. i think 5 photos of the CBD in the article is too much, and a variety would be nice, both touristy and non-touristy. Xtra 03:27, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I've added a photo of Mornington from Arthurs Seat. It's the only real non-CBD Melbourne photo I have that would suit WP.  (I also have a few of the Searoad ferry, one of which is on the ferry article.)  They don't need to be touristy photos, but they need to be something of significance to Melbourne.  Crown Casino, Federation Square, Monash Freeway (the part within Melbourne), Melbourne Cricket Ground, and so on.  But a train station is a good suggestion, as the Melbourne stations have a distinctive look and feel about them.  -- Chuq 03:32, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * If someone's going to put a train station photo in there, then it may be wise to take a new one. The best one I've taken so far was at Willison, but the Alamein line ones are a bit different, so... Ambi 03:52, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Someone care to explain why the map was removed for no good reason? T.PK 12:20, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I removed it because it looks like it was taken from a cheap tourist brochure. I don't know what its provenance is but it's really tacky. I'm sure we could find a better one. Also there are too many images. Adam 13:38, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Perhaps you could try removing the copyright-violation images then, before getting rid of a perfectly useful map. Ambi 13:43, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * adam, why are you being so grumpy. if you want a less "tacky" map, then upload it. Xtra 13:46, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

You should see me when I'm grumpy :) All I said is that the map looks cheap and tacky, which it does. I am not obliged to find a better map before I can say that. Adam 14:06, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * You must have a very broad definition of tackiness, then. T.PK 20:38, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I have high standards, yes. Adam 22:51, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Adam, high standards are great, but for once I think you're being a little over the top. The map is clear and contains useful information.    I think the article is better for its presence.  In any case, the map was drawn specifically for Wikipedia, IIRC, and the user concerned modified it several times in response to comments by others.  If you ask nicely they might just make more changes to deal with your concerns.


 * One problem that Wikipedia does have, of course, is that there isn't really an equivalent of the Wiki process for images, so we have to rely on the original image creator to do the improvements. Hopefully SVG will change that, someday.  --Robert Merkel 00:12, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Oh for f***s sake! All those photos, and not one has trams in it! - Shevek 14:24, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

City population
I notice this article has adopted a US-style population of the actual City of Melbourne itself, as opposed to the style used everywhere else (including Australia) whereby city population is of the entire metropolitan area. This article states that Melbourne is the second largest city in Australia, then lists its City of Melbourne population and metro population. But if we're going to mention the central city population as a size of the city, then Brisbane is the Largest City in Australia. As far as I know, the entire metro area of Brissie is the one local government area, the City of Brisbane. So that means about 1.4 million people live in that (local government area) City and hence Brisbane is Australia's Largest City. Which of course is a load of piffle, but I still think it's screwed up mentioning the population of the City of Melbourne in this article as if it were being ranked according to that as well as the metro population. - Mark 03:32, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I think the text makes it clear that the City of Melbourne is a local government area with the greater Melbourne metro area. It is not unreasonable to give both population figures. Adam 04:06, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

this may be a silly point... but why is the pop mentioned here at 52,117 and on City of Melbourne at 46,000. one population figure on the actual page would remove this inconsistency. Xtra 04:29, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The inner city areas have been gaining population over the past decade so the higher figure is probably correct. Adam 04:45, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Advertising
The Supper Club?

I'm not from Melbourne - is there something special about this Supper Club which makes it worthy of inclusion? It flagged a big red "advertising" warning in my brain when I read it. Ozzage 17:39, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, maybe it should go; it's pretty well-known but perhaps not so significant it belongs in this article. --Robert Merkel 07:18, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

yes. Should go. Xtra 08:45, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Ambi 08:46, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have lived in Melbourne for the past 19 years and I have never heard of it. Remove.

Photo sites
Whilst Melbourne is a beautiful and picturesque city, is it appropriate for 3 of the 5 external links to be to photo sites? Josh Parris &#9993; 08:01, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Depends on the individual content. But best not to duplicate if can avoid. Xtra 10:34, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Melbourne Parks and Gardens
Melbourne parks and gardens section is nearing completion with only a few more parks suggested for articles as part of the Category:Melbourne parks and gardens. Given that the parklands and gardens are an important tourist attraction and are intrinsic to the reputation of Melbourne as the garden city in the Garden state, a link to the main article needs to be incorporated into the Melbourne article, probably the top section before the Table of Contents. I am a bit stumped for words, does someone else want to have a go at this?--Takver 8 July 2005 03:29 (UTC)
 * I've been brutally efficent and just pasted in the introductory para from Melbourne parks and gardens. I'm sure over time it will mutate into something differnt. Josh Parris &#9993; 04:19, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Is Geelong part of Melbourne?
A recent edit has increased the number of AFL teams based in Melb from 9 to 10. So, for the purposes of this article... Is Geelong part of Melbourne? Josh Parris &#9993; 23:46, 12 July 2005 (UTC)


 * No. However, don't Geelong play some of their "home" games at the Dome?  --Robert Merkel 01:02, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Dubious statement
I find the statement that "Melbourne today is home to the largest number of surviving Victorian Era buildings of any city in the world other than London." hard to believe. What about Paris? What is the source?


 * In this case "Victorian Era" refers to a period in the history of the British Empire, and Melbourne's architecture reflects its presence in the Empire. France has a rather different architectural heritage.  --Robert Merkel 04:47, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Recent urban development
all those great new buildings popping up on southbank, i went to the city the other day, wow, there is so much development going on..... plus there's the docklands too, which is going to have a slightly smaller version of the london eye. (although information about this is a little brief for my liking, check the page and discussion on 'melbourne docklands')

also, i notice that docklands, isn't linked to the wikipedia article on the subject, (i'd do it myself but i'm so damn new at this...)

Restaurants
I run a restaurant review website for Melbourne and Victoria, and wanted to see if I can link to it from either the restaurant section or in the links down the bottom. I thought I should clear it with the project team first. The website in question is "FoodGod" http://www.foodgod.com.au and encourages public opinion and reviews of venues in Melbourne and beyond. If no-one has any objections, I'll add the link in the next few weeks. Cheers Neolux 11:12, 28 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmmm. It appears to be informative and useful, but it's getting close to the line of what's merely advertising.  But for me it's on the acceptable side.  -Robert Merkel 06:30, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Perhaps more suited for wikitravel:Melbourne? Josh Parris [#] 07:02, 4 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I would propose something like: "The Age newspaper produces two "Good Restaurant" guides - one for low-cost eating and another for more elaborate restaurants. The online restaurant guide FoodGod is also available, and has reviews of a number of eateries in Melbourne by local residents." Neolux 11:45, 4 August 2005 (UTC)


 * As there has been no opposition to this for over a month, I have made the above change to the main page. Neolux 10:16, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

watch this space
might be nothing, but i thought it would be interesting to mention this article:http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/tower-tipped-for-power-station-site/2005/07/27/1122143908557.html

it talks about a possible new structure being built in melbourne by a chinese backed firm, it could just be nothing, i'll make sure i remove this if it is :) (if you aren't subscribed to the age (most people aren't) use www.bugmenot.com :)

Melbourne FL
What about Melbourne, FL? Surely theres should be a distinction between Melbourne in Australia and Melbourne in Florida? Wikisub 12:29, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
 * There is a link to Melbourne (disambiguation) in the first line? -- Chuq 12:42, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
 * When Melbourne, Florida gains, oh, another 3,529,000 residents and becomes the state capital of Florida, then it can have equal status with Melbourne. Ambi 07:01, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * More importantly, what about Melbourne, Kentucky? --bainer (talk) 10:56, 21 August 2005 (UTC)