Talk:Messara horse

I believe that the content if this article is inaccurate. Messara is the name of a valey at the Heraklion perfecture in Crete and not the name of the native horse found there. The name of the horse is named Georgalidiko (in Greek &#915;&#949;&#969;&#961;&#947;&#945;&#955;&#943;&#948;&#953;&#954;&#959;).
 * Aka Peneia Pony. This should probably be treated as a herd or foundation of the Peneia (Georgalidiko) line, and not a separate breed.--Jpbrenna 17:31, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * This article (in Greek) seems to suggest that the Messara is a separate breed; that is not how it appears in any of the other sources which I used to develop articles or at least stubs on the other Greek horse breeds. This needs investigation.  There are veterinary geneticists who test horse breeds to determine whether they should be classified as separate breeds or not; I will try to find out if they have tested the Messara herd and compared it to other Greek breeds.  This article may end up a candidate for merger.  If it stays separate, it will still need a rewrite and removal of absurd, unsourced statements.  I have spent years riding and working in horse stables, including a summer as a stablehand -- where I dealt extensively with horse poop from breeds as diverse as Arabian, American Quarter Horse, Shetland Pony and even a beautiful Lipizzaner -- and their shit all looked and smelled the same to me.  Differences in shape, texture, color and smell are generally due to variations in diet and medical issues, not to breed.--Jpbrenna 17:39, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Merge tag
I put on the merge tag per a talk page discussion. This issue needs further research before an actual merge is performed,however. Montanabw (talk) 22:08, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * As I said on Dana's talk page, in the encyclopedia of horse breeds by Jasper Nissen (a definitive work on horse breeds in German) the two breeds Cretan horse and Messara are treated as the same. In this paper they say that there exist six horse breeds in Greece and one of them is called "Cretan (Messaras) horse". Moreover the content of the two articles that we're having here is very similar. But I have a small problem with the breed history. Nissen writes that these horses exist since more than 1000 years (and nothing about Arabian bloodlines). He talks about the Cretan horse and lists Messara just as another name of it. Hendricks (the source of the Messara article) states the beginning of the Messara breed at the time of the Turkish occupation (crossing native mares with Arabian stallions) and according to the History of Crete this happened in the 17th century. The European Farm Animal Biodiversity Information System states 1500 as the year of origin (name of the breed is "Crete" here and "Messara" is listed as the local name). But this is no problem which concerns the merging. I can do this if you agree. But I wouldn't include the information that they never galopp as stated in Cretan horse, it's not referenced and I actually don't believe it. --Klara (talk) 19:43, 18 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm confortable with your arguments for the merge. If you want to give it a day or two to see if anyone else weights in, do so, but I have no objections, personally.  Perhaps DO add these sources (OK but note they are in German, if that's all there is.  Babelfish sort of works for those who REALLY care)  We could even add the inconsistencies in breed history as part of the article, with citations.  Truth is, 1000 years ago there were Oriental horses but the name "Arabian" wasn't used until around the time of Muhammad.  So fair to say that early ancestors of the modern breed definitely had Arabian blood beginning in the 17th century, but sources prior to that are unknown, with Oriental ancestry speculated, blah, blah, blah...  I agree the "they don't gallop" thing is probably totally wrong.  Never heard of a horse that couldn't gallop.   Montanabw (talk) 02:03, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I hope that I've done it right. --Klara (talk) 20:56, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Messara Horse
I can't see what is the problem with the name Messara for that horse,I'm from the valley of Messara of Crete, and here is the biggest amount of horses of Crete, as always was, i have heard the name Georgalidiko, but none use it (it's not actually a name, means for farm working) we just call the horses... horses, in greek. If outside Crete call those horses Messara it's just fine for me.Andrey Pavlyuchenko (talk) 15:59, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


 * We get these nationalistic naming spats from time to time, this one is an old one and long settled. We have a lot more trouble with articles like the Karabakh horse, because of the ethnic tensions in that region.  No worries here.   Montanabw (talk) 00:05, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Georgalidiko
I add at the infobox, at the field Common Nicknames the nickname Georgalidiko, for the Messara bred, because this way the horse it's know in many places in Greece and Turkey, it's the same bred. If someone disagree, please write the reason, do not just remove it. I will put the nickname again. thanks Marouloharakas (talk) 06:35, 27 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll leave it, but can you provide some sort of written source that this is true?  Montanabw (talk) 16:41, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

No I can't provide any of proof, I read some things about it and I see that there is a controversy, i'm sure that Messara is the right name, and that they call Georgalidiko is the same breed, but im not sure if Georogalidiko is a name that worth saying. So i will remove it myself, till someone bring something else. Marouloharakas (talk) 20:17, 28 May 2013 (UTC)