Talk:Michael Jackson/Archive 1

Intro
'sai varshan' (1958- ) is the most successful pop singer of all time...''

Thriller, released in 1982, became the greatest album of all time.

Later he went on a tour to promote his new album called 'Bad'(the second highest-selling album) and it became the greatest tour ever...

Sorry Nazii, but I'm afraid your additions are veering this article away from the neutral point of view that we try to maintain around here. --Stephen Gilbert

The article says that Jackson is the most selling artist of all times. Thats wrong. The article is even linking to the "documentation" that proves that Elvis Presley has sold a lot more. And thats a Wikipedia article to... Jackson fans must try to be objective. Jackson has sold about 750 mill, while Elvis has sold about 1,5 billion. According to RIAA numbers, Elvis has sold 1 billion, but they have said they have not counted all the early sales. If the RIAA numbers were correct, then a country artist would have topped the list of most selling artist.

MJ Richest pop guy ever?

He owns half the beatle stuff the guy even owns the rights to happy birthday. I very much doubt he is any where near bankrupt and is probarly circulating these rumours himself so fans buy his albums out of pity. That said he is one of the greatest musicians of all time and recent events have been weird and upseting for fans and non-fans. Hopefully he is innocent.

A New Question
Why hasn't anybody mentioned Michael Jackson's video game "Moonwalker" (click) for the Sega Genesis? I would think that's something worth mentioning. Not even Bill Gates has his own game. (Or so I presume. Perhaps Linux Penguins destroyed it..)

Material by H7asan
I've reverted H7asan's last edit, on the grounds that it completely replaced what was already there, thus removing a huge amount of information from the article. The new information that H7asan has provided will need to be worked into the article somehow, so I have copied and pasted the full text below. -- Oliver P. 17:31 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)


 * Michael Jackson is one of the most successful popular music singers of all time. He is also known as the "King of Pop" or the &#8220;King of Videos&#8221; (as in Music videos).


 * Michael Joseph Jackson was born on August 29, 1958 in Gary, Indiana to Joseph and Katherine Jackson. He was the seventh of nine children. Michael and his siblings were raised as [Jehovah&#8217;s Witness]es, however Michael left the church as an adult.


 * Michael Jackson began performing at age 5 as the lead singer of the Jackson 5 - a group composed of Michael and four of his older brothers. The group played at local clubs and bars and supposedly were beaten and abused by their father if they performed poorly.


 * In 1969 the Jackson 5 were &#8220;discovered&#8221; and signed to Motown Records. The Jackson family moved to California where the Jackson 5 soon became national stars. Their first 4 singles "ABC", "I Want You Back", "The Love You Save", and "I'll Be There" all became #1 hits. Later hits include the trending setting &#8220;Dance Machine&#8221;. With Motown Records the Jackson 5 made 14 albums, and Michael recorded 4 albums as a solo artist.


 * In 1976 The Jackson 5 left Motown (and renamed themselves the Jacksons). Between 1976 and 1984 the Jacksons produced 6 records and toured internationally. In 1977 Michael Jackson starred in the Wiz (alongside Diana Ross). It was here that he met Quincy Jones (the producer of the Wiz) who would later produce Michael Jackon&#8217;s three most acclaimed solo albums (&#8220;Off the Wall&#8221;, &#8220;Thriller&#8221; and &#8220;Bad&#8221;). &#8220;Off the Wall&#8221; (released in 1979) produced a record 4 #1 hits and sold 6 million copies in the United States.


 * In 1982 Michael Jackson release the &#8220;Thriller&#8221; album. &#8220;Thriller&#8221; produced 7 hit singles, broke records and quickly became the world&#8217;s best selling album (to date it has sold over 50 million copies). The &#8220;Billie Jean&#8221; music video, released to promote &#8220;Thriller&#8221;, became the first video by a Black artist to be aired on MTV, and the &#8220;Thriller&#8221; short film release as &#8220;The Making of Michael Jackson&#8217;s Thriller&#8221; became the world&#8217;s best selling home video. In 1983 while performing for the Motown 25th Anniversary Show, Jackson publicly performed the moonwalk (latter his signature dance move) for the first time, stunning TV audiences. At the 1984 Grammy Awards Jackson was nominated for 12 awards and won a record-breaking 8 awards (now equaled by Carlos Santana) &#8211; 7 for &#8220;Thriller&#8221; and 1 for his narrative on the &#8220;E.T. Storybook&#8221;.


 * In 1985 Michael Jackson released the single &#8220;We Are the World&#8221; (co-written with Lionel Richie). &#8220;We Are the World&#8221; was sung by 44 different singer including Cyndi Lauper, Diana Ross, Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder. &#8220;We Are the World&#8221; sold 7 million copies in the United States (becoming the best selling of the year) and raised money for USA for Africa &#8211; a charity working to raise awareness about and help starving people in Africa.


 * In 1986 Michael Jackson stared in the George Lucas/Francis Ford Coppola 3-D film &#8220;Captain Eo&#8221;. &#8220;Captain Eo&#8221; was shown in Disney theme parks until 1998. Minute for minute it is the most expensive film ever produced, costing an estimated 30 million to make. Jackson created two new songs for the film.


 * In 1987 Michael Jackson release &#8220;Bad&#8221; and began his first solo world tour. He performed to sold out audiences at each concert. The following year Jackson released a silly, playful movie and a serious, personal autobiography both titled &#8220;Moonwalker&#8221;.


 * In 1991 Michael Jackson was awarded a record breaking 890 million dollar contract by Sony and released an album &#8220;Dangerous&#8221;. During the &#8220;Dangerous&#8221; world tour Jackson announced the creation of his Heal the World Charity.


 * In 1993 Michael Jackson was accused by a 13 year old boy Jordy Chandler of child molestation and pedophilia. Although the charges were never proven and probably spurious, Jackson paid the boy a rumored 20 million in a out of court settlement. The following year Jackson married Lisa Marie Presley, the daughter of Elvis Presley, however the marriage lasted less than two years ending in divorce.


 * In 1995 Michael Jackson released &#8220;HIStory&#8221;, a greatest hits album that also contained 15 new songs. In 1997 Jackson released &#8220;Blood on the Dance Floor&#8221; a remix album with 5 new songs, and in 2001 he released &#8220;Invincible&#8221; &#8211; the most expensive album ever &#8211; which however sold only 2 million copies in the United States and 5-6 million worldwide (a disappointment considering Michael Jackson&#8217;s previous success and the cost of the album).


 * Something of an eccentric, Michael Jackson has three children &#8211; two by second wife Debbie Rowe and one by a surrogate he has never met. His children are never shown and appear in public only with white sheets draped over their heads to cover their faces. Jackson is a vegetarian and feels a strong connection to children and animals. His favorite pastimes include water balloon fight with children, climbing trees and sleepovers with children. He has several young friends whom he entertains at his home (known as the Neverland Ranch). The Neverland Ranch contains a small zoo and amusement park. His celebrity friends include actress Elizabeth Taylor, child-star Macaulay Culkin, paranormalist Uri Gellar andthe rabbi Shmuel Boteach, who heads Michael Jackson&#8217;s Heal the World Foundation. Jackson has had several plastic surgeries to modify his appearance.


 * In his career Michael Jackson has received a slew of awards including 18 Grammy Awards. Estimates for his album sales range from 200 million to well over 300 million. His &#8220;Thriller&#8221; video is normally considered the best music video of all times. MTV and Rolling Stones recently named four of his songs (&#8220;Billie Jean&#8221; #5, &#8220;I Want You Back&#8221; #9, &#8220;Beat It&#8221; #23 and &#8220;Rock with You&#8221; #82) as the 100 greatest pop songs of all time.

reply to oliver p
The purpose of an encyclopedia is to provide important information conveniently. This means high standards. 4/5 of the previous article was barely newsworthy – it was the stuff of tabloid – it was tabloid worthy. If we were writing a 175 page autobiography of Michael Jackson I would have no problem including this Michael=LaToya stuff. But this is supposed to be reference which means ~2 pages (10 pages max for a very broad topic e.g. Christianity). And 4/5 of that article just does not belong. -  H7asan


 * Do not limit yourself - or more importantly ourselves. Wiki is not paper Also do not wholesale delete other contributions. Rmhermen 18:33 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)

Hello, H7asan. I'm sorry for just taking all of your information out of the article.You did put in a lot of useful stuff, and I am intending to integrate it back in when I am less busy. But the problem is that you removed a lot of information on Michael Jackson that was already there, as well as the essential dissambiguation notes that enable users to find other people with the same name. I'm sure that we can integrate both articles together and come up with something that contains all the facts that you want in there as well as those that other people want, and then we can all be happy. Ish. :) Don't worry about space, because we have a lot of that. And don't worry about Mr. Jackson's penis, either. We won't end up with pages on that, because the details would be unverifiable. ;) -- Oliver P. 01:01 Apr 10, 2003 (UTC)

This article needs NPOVing. Come on, Patrick, please try to be impartial. -- Zoe


 * Which of my passages are you referring to? - Patrick 01:56 Apr 14, 2003 (UTC)

Regarding the replacement of "black" by "African American", Was it disclosed that she is American? - Patrick 10:01 Apr 15, 2003 (UTC)

Reverted. - Patrick 23:29, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)

What does "cha'mone" mean? And is it actually a catch phrase? Adam Bishop 03:00, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)


 * Could be "jam on." -- knoodelhed 07:32, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I've removed this from the article:
 * Amongst many seemingly far-fetched rumors that circulate about him, he is believed by some people to be the same person as his sister, LaToya Jackson. United Kingdom bookmakers allow punters to bet on this subject, with odds of 500-1 payable on the presentation of evidence that they are the same person. . This could be a safe bet for the bookmakers, considering that they have been photographed together many times, and Michael is reputedly a foot taller than LaToya.

This doesn't seem particularly encyclopedic. --Minesweeper 10:55, Nov 19, 2003 (UTC)

http://www.sbsheriff.org/wn/spr/11180301.html identifies as the address of Neverland Ranch "5225 Figueroa Mountain Road in the Santa Ynez Valley," near CA 154 and Calkins Road in Los Olivos, California.
 * We do not publish in wikipedia articles the addresses of private homes. Kingturtle 01:04, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * I'm not so entirely sure that it's a "private home" anymore. -- knoodelhed 07:32, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

beatle catalog
mention needs to be made of his ownership of the beatles catalog. i believe he doesn't own it anymore, but i don't know the story. Kingturtle 07:00, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Cited source of religion paragraph - moved from article -- Tualha 13:27, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)

How about adding a picture of when he was younger? dave 08:23, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I'm curious, why don't his creditors go after him, if he owes them so much. dave 08:35, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * Because he makes his monthly payments. Kingturtle 08:38, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * How does he make them? He must have to take out some more loans to do so.  But his credit rating must be rock bottom (if everything that has been said about his finances is true).  The only other alternative is that he is actually still rich and in no financial trouble at all.  After all, how can anyone really know?  Especially if he has a large chunk in a Swiss bank or something like that.  dave 20:11, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Get some NPOV happening here
I have removed the boldened section (and external link) from the following:

Also, in late 2002, Jackson stirred up more controversy (and unwittingly created an online video game ) by dangling his infant son Prince Michael II from the balcony of a German hotel.

While it may be customary for the media to portray Jackson as "Wacko Jacko" and joke about him, it is certainly not the place of Wikipedia to give out links to materials that serve no academic purpose except to humiliate the man. - Mark Ryan 12:45, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Does the massive paragraph about the "Black or White" video belong within the text of the MJ article? Shouldn't it, if anything, be in a seperate page about music video history, or perhaps just about that video itself (as it is, I agree, a groundbreaking moment in the medium.)66.157.94.151 09:45, 23 Nov 2003 (UTc


 * I favour the removal of the "unwittingly created an online game" line. Not because it is a joke, but because it is hardly a "video game".  These stupid flash games are created daily and they are pointess no mention as they are by no means historical or even interesting in any way.  dave 20:13, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Seems a remarkable coincidence to me that within weeks of Arnie becoming Gov. of California that a warrant for Jackson's arrest should be issued! Think about it are these two completely polarised show-biz stars actually going to like/approve of each other's life-styles??? Norwikian 23 Nov. 8:15 p.m


 * Yeah, politics is like that. In another remarkable coincidence, the US press are publicizing even the smallest incidents of attacks on US soldiers in Iraq while spiking any stories about Iraqis welcoming the forces of liberation; about Iraqis appreciating foreign aid; about schools and hospitals rebuilt or re-stocked; about political prisoners being released, etc.


 * BTW, how about a nicer picture of Jackson than the clown-face mug shot? Like, a shot of him singing on stage? --Uncle Ed 17:17, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I agree with Ed. I don't think the mug shot is representative of what the common-man's mental picture of Jackson is. Even if you use a shot of him later in his career when his look was more controversial, I think it should still be a performance or press oriented shot. 68.222.10.107 02:40, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Sadly, fame and fortune often removes celebs from reality to the delusion that somehow they are an exception above the law, innocent until guilty perhaps, no Trial by Media is fair either but really Jackson invites these problemsNorwikian 16:36, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Recent move
I strongly disagree with the move to "Michael Joseph Jackson". Andy Mabbett 00:11, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * Agreed, and I've moved it back - especially as it seems as if this was in preparation for a disambiguation. There are several times more links to this page meaning the singer than all the other Michael Jackons put together.  The disambig note at the top of the article is the right way to handle it. Morwen 00:13, Dec 21, 2003 (UTC)

I restored the history of the move, but it does not show the above-mentioned move back. As a result the restoration of the content is shown in the history as part of the edit of 00:14, 21 Dec 2003 by The Anome. To see that edit itself requires a special link:. - Patrick 08:08, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

photo
can we please find a different photo for the top of this article? I don't think this particular image captures the essence of Michael Jackson. Kingturtle 07:43, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Agree. The current photo has an "unverified" copyright tag. Any idea of its copyright status? (would guess that it is copyrighted or fair use) Andrew pmk 01:19, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Question
Here's a question: Why have just one page on Michael Jackson? Why not, for example, a second page about the rumors about Michael Jackson? Or a discography for Jackson on a second page?

Look, Jackson is a controversial figure, and may be of interest from more than one perspective; why not recognize this fact?


 * Since we have section editing there is less need for splitting up a large article, but you could try. - Patrick 22:43, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)


 * While section editing is good, at least over the next year, this article will both have to grow to cover the Jackson case, and grow in interest as a refference topic. And certainly, if someone was doing research on Jackson, there may be a particular aspect that they are interested in (his solo career, the Jackson Five, tabloid rumors, the paedophilia case) and so, IMHO, the main article should be an over-view covering everything, with branches going into more depth about topics about him. Take a look at Lithuania to see what I mean by that...


 * Anyway, I'm raising it here to see if anyone has any objections to it, before I move ahead with it...- AJ


 * That is fine with me.--Patrick 02:16, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Photo
Let's use a different photo. That police photo is really tasteless. User:spencer195
 * You got another public domain photo we can use? Anthony DiPierro

Shouldn't we have a photo at the top of the page? Anthony DiPierro

Gavin
I removed the photo of Gavin. It just didn't seem right to me that wikipedia should have that photo, this kid is going through a lot right now. Even if he is not telling the truth, we should still respect his privacy rights. -User:jsonitsac
 * This is Gavin. [[Image:Tv_martin_bashir_doc_michael_jackson_with_gavin.jpg]] Even if he is a true-blue victim, he did agree to appear on the Martin Bashir documentary, and say everything was peachy keen. -- user:zanimum

I am going to fix a mistake - Jehovah's Witnesses don't disfellowship for "Not attending congregation meetings".george m


 * Agreed. The statement sounds like a one-sided account told by Jackson himself... I don't think someone can even be reproved for simple lack of meeting attendance.

-- An article that mentions Jackson's hobbies but not that he has been indicted for child molestation is not exactly NPOV, is it? It's very much out of date. There's a section on 2002 controversies but it's now 2004.Dr Zen 03:13, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Little Michael Jackson
Can we find a public-domain solo picture of Motown-era Michael? --b. Touch 23:56, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Pedophilia
Given that Michael Jackson has not been found guilty for this allegations, is it really appropriate to have this mentioned in the first sentence of the article? I think this could be placed into a section, perhaps "Ongoing legal laction"? What does everything think? --Rebroad 16:24, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

de las uniones y de los niños de Jackson del
well, where did this paragraph come from?

Flora 03:19, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Balcony incident?
Weird, Michael_Jackson says "see above" about the balcony incident, but I cant find where this is explained in more detail. Is it somehow lost, or did I just overlook it.--Sonjaaa 12:11, Jan 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Michael Jackson. I agree that it appears to be awkwardly written. - Vague | Rant 08:44, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 21:37, 3 May 2016 (UTC)