Talk:Miley Cyrus/Archive 2

More Pregnancy Junk
Someone has apparently tampered with the article concerning the debunking of the pregnancy rumor...again, claiming that she admitted she was pregnant; stating that a copy of the J-14 article that sparked this whole mess was stating that this was the story Miley WANTED the world to hear (why on earth someone who presents herself as a role model would WANT anyone to know she was pregnant is a mystery in and of itself) and even changed the heading to "Pregnancy Rumor No More". Alerting prior to reverting to last good version. WAVY 10 Fan 19:29, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No support, blatant violation of WP:BLP so obvious revert. This editor seems a single issue pusher and probably will be blocked if she continues but I hope our last two messages on her page will head this off. Best we can do here on is just be vigilant about detecting and removing unsupported derogatory information as per policy. --NrDg 19:54, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Miley Cyrus
Miley Cyrus's first appearance on television was on a toothpaste commercial when she was seven. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.224.216.123 (talk) 23:04, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That is an interesting story. Need to see a reference to this before it goes in the article. --NrDg 23:37, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

On her website she says her 1st television appearance was on a Tv show called Doc —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.178.89.6 (talk) 17:56, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protect
I personally think this talk page should be semi protected because it gets vandalised alot Saturn star (talk) 22:27, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's been semi'd since July. The vandalism is mostly from aged accounts, and it's not even that much. Don't even get me started on the vandalism before protection.  bibliomaniac 1  5  23:46, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Change the picture
We need to change the picture because it is really quite blurry. We need something clear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.120.110.6 (talk) 14:29, 15 December 2007 (UTC)


 * fixed - the width was off. --Jack Merridew 14:43, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

place of birth
I edited it to say just franklin please do not change it frankin is a town of it's own not a part of nashville, I know this because i am from middle tennessee.

Genre
miley is NOT pop punk o.o; Justicemanlulz (talk) 01:23, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Then what exactly is she; she is 15, review the music selection again and rethink that statement. Her song "start all over" and her outfit in the music video, it's not exactly pop, so what is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.49 (talk) 01:52, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Boyfriend news should be updated?
Well many few people know about miley having had a boyfriend but its still not updated here so please update it. Her boyfriend was Nick Jonas of the Jonas Brothers. Miley had kissed him on the cheeks on-stage in Memphis, Tennesse. And it has been reported that they had a break-up because of her pics circulated on internet being a lesbian(refer to the article on this page compromising pictures). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kush grwl (talk • contribs) 15:08, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Just becos she kissed him on the cheek, it doesnt imply that he is her boyfriend. If you have valid sources to back your claim, then u are free to add the info. Gprince007 (talk) 15:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * As was said before (see archives), the dating history of a 15 year old is not really something that needs to be in an encyclopedia. This is a current event type of thing and changes too fast and too often to be worth being in the article. By the time it is reported, it would be obsolete info. It is also mostly gossip. If she were to get into a long term committed relationship, that might be notable, if it were backed by reliable sources. --NrDg 16:36, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Compromising pictures
I was perusing the internet and I came across these pictures of Miley and a girl in an uncompromising position. They can be found at: []...  Can somebody verify if they're real? Should this be mentioned in the article? It certainly would hurt her reputation...Michael Cook (talk) 07:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


 * How is this unusual, girls do stuff like this all the time. You should take a look around on places like facebook and myspace, add some girl friends and you will see stuff that is a lot less tame than this is. --Charitwo talk 08:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


 * It is private pictures that got leaked and reported by gossip magazines and websites. Until some mainstream reliable source talks about it it is not notable. --NrDg 15:44, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yahoo has talked about it, yes and we think we should put it in. Pregnancy hoax was a yahoo source, too, right? So I think we should report this. It's entirely about her and it's just like a Britney Spears thing, and we've reported those things!-- style="color:#BDBBD7">Alisyn talk 02:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Need a better source than Yahoo. That is just gossip. If it gets picked up by a major news source it should probably go in the article as that would show notability. Gossip sources are unreliable and this might not be anything important. --NrDg 02:33, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

The story got picked up by People magazine, with quotes from Miley Cyrus: http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20168604,00.html --Bayshel (talk) 08:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Agree with NrDg. While I think (hope?) these are a sham like the pregnancy thing, I would wait for something to pass WP:RS on this matter before including. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 14:51, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Even the people web article is still gossip mongering and even most gossip articles have concluded that this is not a major issue for her. Even though the pictures are real, the info won't belong in this article unless it gets picked up and commented on by real news sources. The pregnancy rumor hoax was widely reported in major news sources. This latest "scandal" is too trivial to be in the article as it has no indication of effecting her career in any way (so far). --NrDg 16:39, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I see, I'll take that into consideration next time. Michael Cook (talk) 21:59, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Since it was, as you say, an "uncompromising" position, then it must be perfectly fine. Find a compromising position and perhaps it would be relevant, huh? 208.111.241.155 (talk) 02:34, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Stick with this Picture
It looks so much better than the original picture I would stick with it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.178.89.6 (talk) 05:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Personal Life
We should add that the Jonas Brothers are her family friends and that Nick Jonas was her boyfriend in the summer of 2006 and since her Best of Both Worlds tour had started, they got back together, then broke up around xmas time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.226.186.96 (talk) 01:07, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Picture
We need a new and updated picture, this one is when she was 13. Anyone else agree?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.139.14.139 (talk) 05:09, 5 January 2008 (UTC) i definatly agree. OLD PICTURE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!we need a new one. seriosly- we need a new one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.65.142.131 (talk) 01:15, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. Stevv (talk) 13:16, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Does anyone have a different picture of her that is better than the current one? I don't have one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.139.14.139 (talk) 03:44, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I switched the pictures because there was a recent picture of her from 2007 further down in the article. Does that work? Elesi (talk) 21:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, it is much better, thank you. Stevv (talk) 02:01, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Photo Scandal
In her personal life there should be something about her photo scandal. The one with here and a friend messing around on a hotel floor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.177.60.232 (talk • contribs)


 * The pictures of her were a controversy, add them, it was on Access Hollywood. I have a quote too. "It was just me and one of my really good friends having fun. It really sucks, and now she has to go home and deal with this crap. It was two girls having fun, and now that's a big deal, what is the world coming to?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.153.234.235 (talk) 20:16, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Get something in more mainstream publications, not gossip sheets, as a reference. This was spun as a scandal by the gossip magazines themselves. Non-gossip outlets have ignored this other than to comment on the ridiculousness of the "scandal" spin. This type of thing is too trivial to be in an encyclopedia. --NrDg 20:54, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Controversy section needed
I suggest we create a controversy section in the article and move the pregnancy hoax paragraph into that section. The controversy section could also mention the photo scandal alongwith Miley's comments about it. Also i think the fact that she used a body double should also be put in the section. The body double controversy has been covered by mainstream media such as Fox news and MTV.com. Since there have been quite a few controversies regarding Miley recently, i suggest we create a controversy section and mention these under it. Just wanna know what others think of it. Gprince007 (talk) 15:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that would be a good idea as long as the section is neutral and not given undue weight over the rest of the article. Also it would need good mainstream media coverage and be something widely covered by non-gossip sources and those sources should talk to how this effects her or her career. Gossip for the sake of gossip should not be in the article. I would oppose any addition to the article of any gossip from unreliable sources - it needs significant neutral coverage. Some of the latest "controversies" are manufactured as spin on benign occurrences and should be ignored unless and until it becomes notable by major outlets. The pregnancy hoax and its coverage is a good benchmark. --NrDg 16:18, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the body double controversy shd be included becos it has been covered by mainstream media (see above). The pregnancy section can be moved in that section too....currently i am busy but i'll attend to this in a day or two....Gprince007 (talk) 05:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Talk about the pictures in the controversy section, because people are still debating it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.89.214.151 (talk) 17:29, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Talk about the pictures in the controversy section, because people are still debating it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.89.214.151 (talk) 17:29, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Another gossip magazine manufactured controversy. Need a reference from some reliable source with a neutral perspective that includes how this is effecting her career or life in some notable way.--NrDg 17:50, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. Looking at the Wikipedia Controversy page and definition, I don't see how any of these fit into the description of controversy. Neither of these events have affected her life or livelihood in any negative way. I don't see how the false rumors of her non-existent pregnancy can be controversial either since they weren't true. Amldgc 16:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Controversy is probably the wrong section title to summarize what is actually going on. What is notable is that pseudo controversies are being manufactured and they are getting coverage in verifiable, reliable sources that discuss them in a neutral manner. The body double issue is controversial by the definition but the fact it is being attached to Cyrus rather than the show where is really belongs is a manufactured issue. I suggest we move the body double controversy to the tour article. That would be neutral for this article but not lose valid information. Pseudo controversies might be a better section title or return to the Pregnancy rumor hoax as organized before. --NrDg 17:18, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think all this is necessary as Wikipedia is not TMZ or US Weekly. However if such category shall exist, I propose it named "social media". O1001010 (talk) 21:29, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the body double incident should probably go on a page related to either the show or the concert tour (if there is one for the latter). WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 13:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * But isn't the body double issue related to Miley??? If it was a one off incident at a show, then i agree that it shd be in an article about the show. But the cited source (MTV.com) states that "the body double is actually being used throughout the tour" ie it is being used in many other concert venues in the touring itenary...so i believe that it shd be in Miley's article as well as the concert article. I didnt put the picture controversy in the article becos it sounded like tabloid news but body double controversy was covered in mainstream media...thats why i put it in the article. Gprince007 (talk) 14:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The point is that it is a show design element to allow the performer to change costumes - so yes it does get used on every show of the tour. Neutral articles call this out and say it is not an uncommon way for shows to speed up costume changes. If it is controversial, it should be attached to the tour article as it really has nothing to do with choices made by a performer. The fact that it IS attached to the performer goes along with all the other manufactured pseudo-controversies. It is notable that this type of thing is happening to Cyrus. It is more a popular backlash though as she has done nothing that would count as being controversial without the gossip magazine spin. All mainstream articles I have seen take a neutral position, report the issue, but don't support the spin. We should do the same. --NrDg 16:01, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * If every celebrity pregnancy rumor was reported on WP - especially internet-only ones like the one reported here - WP pages would be very long indeed. Also it is not a controversy in any shape or form. I say delete the pregancy rumor. Peter Ballard (talk) 11:50, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

the star in january 08 had even more disturbing photos showing her and friends with a small shirt on and a swimsuit bottom sized undergarments —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.60.71.94 (talk) 23:39, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It was not disturbing to anybody in the mainstream media and they chose not to give it any coverage. A "scandal" spin by a gossip magazine that does not meet wiki reliable source WP:RS requirements does not merit inclusion in the article. See below on this page for more discussion on this issue. It has been talked about a lot. --NrDg 23:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There's also BLP concerns with that too. Can't risk it.  bibliomaniac 1  5  00:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Christian
I have added Miley into category American Christians, since which subbranch of Christianity is unknown. What we do know is that she is not Taoism, Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, Shintoism, or Atheist. It is a clear fact that she is Christian, but we do not know if she is catholic, protestant, lutheran, baptist, etc. So I think the general category of Christian is safe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by O1001010 (talk • contribs) 10:49, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


 * She may or may not be but there is nothing in the article that talks to it so a category can't be supported. --NrDg 12:55, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Didn't we go through this (or a similar discussion) about this time last year? WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 13:50, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm really curious what she has done to make people so sure that she isn't Taoist, Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, Shinto, or atheist.Kww (talk) 14:17, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * There is an interview article in Today's Christian magazine http://www.christianitytoday.com/tc/2008/001/1.19.html with Billy Ray and Miley where Billy Ray outright states that his whole family is Christian. I wouldn't have a problem with this being used as a reference to support inclusion in the article some comment on her faith and beliefs. I won't add it as I personally don't think it adds much to the article but that is just a value judgment on my part. I'll go with whatever consensus turns out to be on this issue. --NrDg 14:59, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The same user has posted similar query on Hilary Duff Talk page. I have made my views clear there. I dont think that adding her religion to the article will add any value to it. Gprince007 (talk) 15:17, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I might look at that one. That could be interesting, but I'd wait for additional stuff to verify (between the article Gprince007 turned up and the Parade and USA Today articles I found last year; we may have enough for a weak case supporting the cat). WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 15:40, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I won't support a category that is not backed up with something referenced in the article. The categories are supposed to categorize the article not the article subject. Subtle distinction but that is the way I like to see things. Unfortunately, in my opinion, a lot of people seem to think that the ethnicity and beliefs of ancestors are important biographical attributes that need to be mentioned in a bio article. Consensus seems to support this but there is always a lot of discussion and debate on how this is defined for a particular person. See discussion on Zac Efron for an example. I would prefer this to be left out unless it impacts the person in some notable way but I think I am a minority in this. (As an aside - a good case could be made for ethnicity Hillbilly, but so what).--NrDg 16:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Let me respond to the few comments directly. NrDg: since you are the one who undid my category add and you have found the Today's Christian article, I am going to add that as a source and add the revision to the article if no one objects. As for the reason why please see my response to Gprince007.

Gprince007: yes, clicking on the contrib link isn't hard at all. But since you had to pull why I did the same for Hillary Duff I must open a case for this. (except I didn't add to Duff's article right away because the evidence is not strong, so I left it in discussion first.) Heritage, culture and religion are the core elements who identify a unique human being. How is it possible that you can say that, and I quote "I dont think that adding her religion to the article will add any value to it." end quote. Being a Christian is who Miley is and if you look at any other celebrity's article on Wikipedia, within the very few sentences a celebrity's background, sometimes few generations back, are presented. In such an iconic figure among youth such as Miley, this essential information is not present. Before you even start, no I am not Christian myself. I want this aspect of things in because I am absolutely neutral, the way that Wikipedia suppose to be. Wikipedia is suppose about facts and not about whether you think it is important or not. As long as a fact come from a reputable and creditable source, it should be there as every single factor leads to a better detailed article. In this case, we obviously have a different view on what is significant, someone who does the exact same thing 3+ hours every week.

back to NrDg: I highly respect your opinion. If I had my way, it's either omit all family background in all articles or put them all in. However, take a look at any other articles about a person and that family background, culture and religion issues are always high up on top. So I am just trying to bring this article to that same level. —Preceding unsigned comment added by O1001010 (talk • contribs) 20:18, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, consensus on other bio articles seems to be for inclusion. For example Jewishness in all its flavors seems to get extremely strong support even if the person in the bio has outright rejected that classification it is still included. I can't make a strong case based on precedence to NOT include "Christian" as long as the support is strong for its inclusion. Just don't give it more weight in the article than is necessary or is done for other religious/ethnic identification in other bio articles. --NrDg 20:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It sounds like consensus would be going back to where it was earlier this week. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 13:56, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Well unless Miley says she's a Christian then it should not be put, my mom tells everyone our family is Christian. But I'm not, I don't tell people because my mom would be disapointed, maybe she isn't but doesn't want to disapoint her Dad? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.247.23.180 (talk) 23:03, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

NrDg, with the approval I have added the content into the article, and also the original category. I can't figure out it is the Christians who are not trying hard enough to get the facts published on Wikipedia or there is a tendency of censorship going on here that makes adding a Christian religion harder than others. However, with myself being non-Christian and a minority, I believe absolute equality with all humans, except there are smart people and there are idiots. In such an icon person such as Miley, this fact must be published and I ask yourhelp to make that stay and free of vendalism. And I think I understand where you come from, the article about Meryl Streep is an example. I think it have something to do with the fact like you can have a jamaican pride parade, dominican pride parade, gay pride parade, but if you have a white pride parade, holy crap you will be labeled a racist all over. Before anyone jump at this, recall what I just wrote, I am a minority and non-Christian myself. O1001010 (talk) 08:56, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It is just that the defaults for the US are generally not interesting or notable. "White" and "Christian" are what is assumed if nothing else is mentioned so in general are not put in articles. Most Americans who are somewhat religious are nominally Christians of some type. It becomes interesting if the subject of the article makes an issue of it and it impacts their life in some noticeable way. I think in this case it meets that standard, but barely. I won't oppose addition but others might. I suggest it stay in the article for now and continue discussion here. --NrDg 16:40, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I have to disagree on that. To me when it is not present I assume they are agnostic or atheist. I don't think being a minority make things more exotic and I consider all human beings equal, I just classify them by inteligence. I see no reason why the mentoned should not be a permenant part of this article, unless Miley converts to something else. It's part of who she is and it's a part of her.

O1001010 (talk) 07:15, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * well i still stand by my prev statements. i feel that mention of religion in the article is unnecesaary unless and until it affects her in her career or personal life. If she does or does not do something because of her religion then it may be mentioned.Thats got nothing to do with "minority" or "exotic" crap u mentioned before. Articles on Madonna,George Bush, Barack Obama, Mahatma Gandhi mention their religious beliefs and i am in favour of it because in those instances their belief in their religion and their religious identities shaped their career and ideologies. Also their propagating of their religious identities have been mentioned in various mainstream media. In Miley's case, i dont think her religion has shaped or influenced her thinking in a major way. She's just another teenage popstar who could've been buddhist, hindu, islamic, Taoist or whatever ....also her being a christian has not been widely covered by mainstream media (maybe becos of the same reason i think that it didnt influence her in a notable way). So her being a christian is of no significance in an encyclopaedic article. Miley is a christian but so is 80 percent of US population...Gprince007 (talk) 15:26, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Not 100% certain if this will help, but I was buying groceries yesterday and saw the most recent US Weekly where she was on it. I thumbed through it, and saw her mention one of the things she carries around is a (guessing pocket) New Testament she got from her mom as well as something containing favorite Bible verses. I will check for an online version of said article (which would probably be the strongest thing to support the cat). WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 15:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You don't need a web link to add a reference, although that is best. If you have the magazine and can give a complete cite including mag name, date, author of article, pages and a quote that would be sufficient. I saw the article too and don't think it really says anything more than we already have. I think the category is already well supported. It is an editorial judgment call whether or not this is notable enough to be in this article. I see no compelling reason to remove it. Others disagree. --NrDg 16:54, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I said I'd look for the link because I didn't buy it. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 17:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

To GPrince: All I can say is WOW, that is easily an offensive statement towards Christians. The funny thing is there was absolute no consequences to you what so ever. Try make the statement towards any other ancient religion and you will be welcomed by a riot. Back to what you said.

Quote "i feel that mention of religion in the article is unnecesaary unless and until it affects her in her career or personal life."

Neither does 90% of the celebrity here are Wikipedia. They simply have their background and generations listed. Start a project of deleting all of them and then come back here and post the same thing. And do a search on "*religion* actor" on the category, see how many celebrities under those category actually ever stated that religion matters to them and so called "shaped their life".

Quote "also her being a christian has not been widely covered by mainstream media (maybe becos of the same reason i think that it didnt influence her in a notable way)."

Have you been reading any of the sources? If not start reading.

Quote: :"If she does or does not do something because of her religion then it may be mentioned.Thats got nothing to do with "minority" or "exotic" crap u mentioned before." and "So her being a christian is of no significance in an encyclopaedic article. Miley is a christian but so is 80 percent of US population..."

You just proved what I said before about how being a MAJORITY doesn't matter any more in this country. So because 80% of the population of this country is Christian therefore we can omit this piece of her identity? Because of that we can assume if nothing is mentioned that she is "defaulted to Christian"? Do remeber that Wikipedia is a global thing. And because of protest from people like you, we have a double stadard in United States where the majority actually value less that the minority. Think in terms the logic of that. You are making minorities like me look bad in this country.O1001010 (talk) 20:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC) (and I can't get my sign straight)


 * Well, here's something from a People magazine online article from when she appeared on Oprah back in November:

"Cyrus also mentioned church as a source of strength. When asked to name her favorite Bible verse, she quoted Ephesians 6:10-11 from memory: 'Finally, my brother, come close to the Lord for if you put on the full armor of God you can stand against the walls of a devil.'"


 * Helps somewhat. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 15:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Just a note - Catholic is not Christian. Baptists and Lutherans ARE protestants. I think you may have meant Presbyterian. As far as I know, Miley is either Presbyterian, Baptist, or Methodist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.181.43.225 (talk) 23:47, 2 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This gets into a somewhat common derogatory area related to the definition of "Christian" and stating someone isn't Christian if they don't belong to a certain denomination. Let's try to avoid this type of argument as it adds nothing. --NrDg 00:09, 3 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Just looked at the Christianity Today link and other that one statement by her (echoed somewhat in the USA Today link I found when the whole debate first began last year); the article sounds like it would be a better fit here. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 15:12, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Near-Death?
Is it true someone tried to bomb a Hannah Montana Concert or something? -Rikara (talk) 22:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Does not belong in article. This whole thing is random speculation by a few radio stations and FBI says Cyrus not a target. We don't need to be first with stuff. Let current events age a bit before considering inclusion in article as they might, like in this case, be wrong information. --NrDg 23:04, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm holding an OK! Magazine that has a feature on Miley Cyrus, and it says something about this attempt. I'd believe that would be some important piece of information, and a credible source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.203.193.225 (talk) 21:44, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If this was true; that would definitely have been front-page news (possibly even bumping Sen. Obama's win in South Carolina yesterday). WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 15:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It has been added to the article with a reference to a CNN news report - presumed a reliable source. The problem is that even that report quotes unnamed sources and other, less reliable sources, state the FBI has bluntly declared that the CNN report is wrong. I don't think this belongs in the article due to the point it was speculation from unnamed sources. --NrDg 16:57, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree. I mean there was a lot of talk about whether Super Bowl XXXVI would be a terrorist target as that was the first Super Bowl after the 9/11 attacks and...nothing happened. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 17:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

scandal
Hi everyone. I just thought you might like to add something about this: http://oceanup.typepad.com/oceanup/miley_cyrus/index.html Thanks -FendiCatz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.72.234.172 (talk) 04:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Not a reliable source of information. Unless and ntil some major news outlet reports on this and it gets a lot more coverage outside of gossip web pages and blogs it is not notable. Blogs and gossip sites characterizing something as a "scandal" does not make it one. --NrDg 04:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Page protection
I protected the page again from edits of anonymous and new users. It was unprotected for 10 hours and the level of anon vandalism seemed to be accelerating as people discovered it was unprotected. I left the time period as indefinite as it was before. --NrDg 18:25, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Miley Ray Cyrus
ET is reporting her name has been legally changed to Miley Ray Cyrus http://www.etonline.com/news/2008/01/58023/index.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.139.92.58 (talk) 10:38, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I redirected it here. Just saying. -- Howard  the   Duck  12:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * the name change was reverted earlier too....unless it gets proper coverage in prominent media, i suggest that her name shd be "miley cyrus" in the article. Gprince007 (talk) 15:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The root source of this "change" is a gossip column, almost the definition of an unreliable source. They could be misunderstanding a stated intention. I'd want to see a direct quote of what she actually said from that source, not a paraphrase. There are other reports but they all reference the one and only report in the ET online report. This is all dubious right now. I would expect this to be verifiable news from lots of other places, if true. --NrDg 16:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC) Also refer to WP:BLP for the type of reference we would need to support this type of change. --NrDg 16:54, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I saw on national TV this morning that she is officially changing her name form Destiny hope Cyrus to Miley Ray Cyrus. I don't remember what show it was, but it was on ABC.


 * Here's a People Magazine citation.--Sli723 (talk) 22:34, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I've added it in for the moment with a few sources.  bibliomaniac 1  5  23:39, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Be careful who the other references use as THEIR source. Everything I've seen all goes back to exactly one place, the ET Online report. I've seen nothing, and I've looked real hard too, for anything that shows independent verification of the data other than accurately attributing and reporting what ET Online said. They make no claim of any other inputs. This is still a WP:BLP level issue of getting good references. There is no hurry to make this change. I would like to see an actual quote or a mention on her official site, which should be inevitable if the data is true. People magazine quoting an unreliable source accurately does not turn it into a reliable source. --NrDg 00:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's a link to an ET mention. It's not very comprehensive though.  bibliomaniac  1  5  00:29, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That is the root source of all this and the link the person who added this to the article in the first place originally used as the reference. I don't think this source meets the WP:BLP requirements as a reliable source of contentious bio info. --NrDg 00:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Then I suppose we'll wait for someone like the AP or Reuters to pick up the story then.  bibliomaniac 1  5  00:50, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I grew weary of reverting name change issues so protected page for a day to allow us time to find a GOOD reference. If we get a wire service source, that would be sufficient in my opinion. --NrDg 01:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I found the same information on tvguide.com --Iroc24 20:55, 29 January 2008 (est)
 * Adds to the weight of support but they still are using as their source ET and haven't indicated that they have done any independent fact checking. We need something that is independent of the original ET source and not part of the gossip chain. --NrDg 02:01, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

WGN Fox Chicago, numerous radio shows and NBC News is reporting that she legally changed her name also so I don't think its a false rumor. http://700wlw.com/pages/entertainmentnews.html?feed=104665&article=3204660 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.117.164.188 (talk) 04:57, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The websites suggested above are all listing ET online as their source. So, technically only ETonline has reported it and others have merely quoted it. I feel we wait for a while till some major networks report it (like CNN or fox or someone else, preferably with Miley's own quotes).Surprisingly a search on the net didnt reveal anything worthwhile....so maybe the best thing as NrDg suggested is wait for a while ...such a major change in the article needs multiple citation and needs to be treaded with caution. Gprince007 (talk) 06:07, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

ABC 24.106.223.2 (talk) 13:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Chicago Tribune 24.106.223.2 (talk) 14:10, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-miley-ray-cyrus,1,5881382.story Chicago Tribune is reporting it without attribution to ET. I think there has been sufficient time for a denial to have been issued and enough news sources are vetting ET as being reliable that we can class this info well supported. I will revert the article to the first person who added the info and add the Chicago Tribune reference. --NrDg 14:12, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * So does the article move to Miley Ray Cyrus or does the title stay as is? WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 23:22, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ray is her middle name. Keep it at Miley Cyrus and make Miley Ray Cyrus a redirect.  bibliomaniac  1  5  23:35, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Common name is Miley Cyrus and that has not changed and that is how bio articles are supposed to be named, by common name. Middle name mentioned exactly once in lede and only in lede. In this case also appropriate to mention the change. Infobox name should also match article title. Redirect from full name. All is well in article right now. --NrDg 00:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Might put this in the article. This is a video of the actual interview that ET did where you can hear Miley state in her own words what was reported. http://www.etonline.com/news/2008/01/58146/index.html --NrDg 21:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Miley Cyrus officially changed her name on Febuary 15 2008. Her birth name will always be Destiney Hope Cyrus but in credits she will be now as Miley Ray Cyrus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.140.17.147 (talk • contribs) 00:15, 21 February 2008 (UTC
 * Where did you hear this fact? Contradicts what is in the article right now. As far as anyone knows she did not change her stage (credited) name. --NrDg 00:36, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Body-Double controversy...
It says she is replaced by "another girl" If you look at the pictures of the... thing... you can't really tell if it's a girl or not, perhaps change it to "another person"? Uses Wikipedia Alot (talk) 15:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Have not actually seen the picture of the double, so I can't really comment one way or another. If you had a picture available, that would help us a bit. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 14:01, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You thinking that the body double is a male or female could amount to original research i guess....The cite says that the body double was a "she"....But currently the article puts it in a Gender neutral language. I guess that too is OK as per WP:Manual of Style and WP:GENDER. So i guess there's no need to change..... Gprince007 (talk) 15:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've got your point. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 18:23, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure its her backup dancer, Ashlee Nino i believe. many youtube videos hav claimed so —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.149.227.140 (talk) 05:55, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I deleted this information from the article as it is already adequately covered in the tour article. This is not about Cyrus, it is about controversial concert tour production design choices. --NrDg 16:35, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Controversies
I got rid of that pregnacy crap, since she's not pregnant. This page should be protected for vandalism in the future. Thanks. 68DANNY2 (talk) 16:45, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Meets notability requirements, has good references to neutral sources that discus the hoax. See archives for discussion on why it is in the article. -NrDg 17:43, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It is still significant information about her and something that has happened to her, so I agree to keep it on. Stevv (talk) 21:41, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Basic Grammar
Can someone who has privileges to edit this please do so? I'm extremely bugged by the possessive of Cyrus being misused with only an apostrophe. It should not be Cyrus', it should be Cyrus's. I've already edited the misuse of the apostrophe on Billy Ray Cyrus's page.

For anyone who is unfamiliar with the rule of apostrophes to denote possession...

'''- If it's singular, add 's (yes, even if it is a name and already ends in "S" such as "Cyrus") ''Example: The lady's luggage. Cyrus's career.''

- Only use a single apostrophe at the end of the word if it is already pluralized and denotes the item in question belongs to multiple people. ''Example: The ladies' luggage. The Cyruses' careers.' It's actually really simple, but highly abused. Anyway, that's just my little pet peeve. Thank you!

Chesneyyoung (talk) 23:54, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the apostrophe and "s" after the name is not needed. "Cyrus' career" is perfectly fine.--69.55.196.250 (talk) 19:33, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Chesneyyoung has it right. If the name ends in s, it still gets 's at the end. E.B. Strunk and the New York Times agree, and that's good enough for me. Cyrus' career is wrong, and Cyrus's career is right.Kww (talk) 19:56, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Either is acceptable. I was an English major in college.--69.55.196.250 (talk) 02:06, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I cleared up the seat-belt section. I really doubt that Billy Ray Cyrus said: "Seat-belt is extremely important." It's improper grammar. I also changed "apologised" to "apologized". I find it bizarre that someone cannot spell that with all the sources on the internet. I changed the comment of Billy Ray to "Seat-belts are extremely important" because it sounds... grammatically accurate. Annieeee (talk) 18:29, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Depending on where you are, apologised might be the correct spelling. Please be careful when changing direct quotes. Sometimes people really do say things that are grammatically inaccurate. That doesn't mean we fix it for them when quoting them. In this case, what was there was incorrect, but so was what you changed it to. --Onorem♠Dil 18:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Extreme Makeover: Home Edition
I added that she was the Celebrity Guest for the February 10, 2008 episode of Extreme Makeover: Home Edition under the Filmography -> Television section. I'm not sure if it's good enough so make any changes that you feel are necessary. Amldgc 02:28, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Best of Both Worlds touring band
Don't know if anyone cares, but it might be worth adding some info about the touring band for the "Best of Both Worlds" Tour, if only because several members of the band have prior histories in very credible rock bands. According to the Boston Phoenix, the musical director and drummer for the tour is Stacy Jones, who previously played in American Hi-Fi, Veruca Salt, and Letters to Cleo. In an interview with Jones, the Phoenix also identifies one of the backup singers as Kay Hanley, also of Letters to Cleo and a solo act (she's also worked on several film and tv soundtracks, including the Josie and the Pussycats remake.) One of the guitarists is also from American Hi-Fi. One detail not worthy of a Wiki but perhaps germaine to the "punk-pop" debate: Jones describes one of Miley's songs by saying that it could be "a Foo Fighters song if Dave Grohl was singing it." Jawnbreaker (talk) 00:15, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree as long as we can get good references. Candice Accola the other backup singer also has some web information I kind of remember seeing. --NrDg 00:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Underwear photos
Nothing about that even on the discussion page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.55.196.250 (talk) 19:34, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What is there to talk about? They're really not too significant and out of the ordinary for a teenage girl. Mainstream media has not commented on them nor have the pictures affected her negatively in any way, shape, or form. Amldgc 01:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amldgc (talk • contribs)

There's more talk about less around here these days.--69.55.196.250 (talk) 02:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah if it becomes extremely notable, we might include it (a la Paris Hilton). If not, then Wikipedia is not a tabloid service: see BLP. The Evil Spartan (talk) 09:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

seat-belt info
I think the seat belt info is too trivial to be included in this article. It doesnt seem notable and i dont think its goin to affect her career in a big way. I suggest we remove the info. Gprince007 (talk) 10:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It is too trivial in my opinion as well, but it is notable as it has been covered by a lot of major news sources so it meets the wiki rules for inclusion if someone wants to include it. In other words, even thought I think it too trivial, I have no policy related reason to remove it. The reference needs to include the original Consumer Reports article though. --NrDg 14:53, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * A brief mention might be worth it, though it should only be brief. She's only lived 15 years so far, so it may be notable insofar as she's lived. The Evil Spartan (talk) 22:51, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Redirect and article
Now, she has changed her name and it's "Miley Ray Cyrus" but when you hit the "Go" button when you search on "Miley Ray Cyrus" you get redirected to "Miley Cyrus" article, shouldn't it be moved to "Miley Ray Cyrus" and let the "Miley Cyrus" page be the redirect to "Miley Ray Cyrus"? Thanks for reading, leave your comments. --Kanonkas, Take Contact (talk) 09:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure yet. See : there may not be all it's cracked up to be in this name change. It might just be a middle name. The Evil Spartan (talk) 09:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Everything needs to stay the way it is now. Most people have middle names that are mentioned in their article ledes but not in the article title. Articles are named after what the person is most commonly known as, what people are most likely to search on. Redirects are placed on the lesser known alternatives. All her credits are still "Miley Cyrus" and unless and until she starts getting better known by her full name, we need to keep using her stage name. --NrDg 14:43, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Signature?
Is it necessary that we have to add her signature on the page? She's not all to important, currently not a President.--Cinnamonroll (talk) 03:17, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's necessary. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 14:08, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It is illustrative of the person just like the picture. It is a free image from commons. It is not necessary to remove it. Importance is not a criteria for inclusion in wiki - notability is and the subject meets that hurdle. I think it is nice that the autograph of a celebrity is in the article. --NrDg 14:22, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

She did live in Toronto with her dad, Billy RayAlan’s 1st Sweetheart (talk) 21:42, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Verify this or revert this...
What? When did she ever live in Toronto? It seems like we have a jealous "I know she did because I want her to" user. --AOL Alex (talk) 19:13, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The information is well referenced in the article. No need for additional verification. --NrDg 19:17, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Check out this article from the Toronto Star, which contains this line: "She performed the latter half of the 90-minute set as Miley – brunette topped and slightly more mature in style for tunes from her debut album, such as "G.N.O. (Girls Night Out)" and "East Northumberland High," which she explained was named for the Toronto school she attended while living here when her dad, country singing star Billy Ray Cyrus, was filming a TV show." I believe the TV show in question is Doc (TV series). Tabercil (talk) 19:30, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course East Northumberland Secondary School is in Brighton, ON not Toronto... (http://esip.edu.gov.on.ca/english/profiles/school_info.asp?ID=B66079&schoolid=906719) - so... either she lived somewhere closer to school (read: not in Toronto), or she had quite the commute every day... (almost 2 hours according to Google Maps) --Kmenzel (talk) 03:23, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably being loose with city names in the interview - Toronto is an internationally well known city, not many cities close to Toronto are so use Toronto to get people aware of the general location. We go by what we can reference and she said what she said. The error is with her, not us. We don't know where the actual filming of the show was either and there would be no problem if the family lived in Brighton and Billy Ray was the one to commute. We don't know, it is speculation and we have a reference we can use.--NrDg 03:59, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Controversy: the ticket lawsuit
As long as this article has a "Controversy" section, shouldn't there be a mention of the lawsuit against the Miley Cyrus Fan Club over the distribution of concert tickets? (See ABC News for example.) --Metropolitan90 (talk) 07:55, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It is well covered in the article about the concert. See Best of Both Worlds Tour and, since it really has nothing to do with Miley Cyrus, belongs in that article only. --NrDg 16:25, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 18:58, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Country Pop?
I don't know about including Miley in this genre listing. I think that better describes her dad. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 17:42, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've always wondered about how we do the genre categorization. For everything else we need a reference - for this type of info it seems the wiki culture to let people do their own evaluation and put in what they determine, thus the continuous changes. Is there some WP:RS type commentary or evaluation of a respected music critic that we can reference. I would just remove any genre that is disputed that can't be backed up if it were solely my decision. --NrDg 19:03, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with NrDg on this....even i have never figured out how people manage to add just about any genre to the list.....but then if the infobox has a "genre" field, then we have to add it....i guess then we have to go by the general consensus. Esp. the genres "Hard rock", "Heavy metal" ,"pop", "bubblegum pop" are used interchangingly. guess consensus is the only way out....Gprince007 (talk) 12:01, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Archive time
63 KB...I think it may be time to archive the page. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 19:51, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * sofixit The Evil Spartan (talk) 06:44, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Official MySpace
Her official myspace is http://www.myspace.com/mileycyrus Her personal myspace is http://www.myspace.com/_not_a_poser_ 192.43.227.18 (talk) 23:30, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem putting the official one on. Don't know about the unofficial, if it's even genuine - besides which, it appears to be a privacy leak, and has no part on her page per WP:BLP. The Evil Spartan (talk) 06:42, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Math-A-Thon host
I just found out that Miley's this year's Math-A-Thon co-host. Should it be mentioned somewhere that she's doing charity work?Look here for the source! Abcw12 (talk) 00:09, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Saw it. Looks like all systems are go as far as I'm concerned. Just emphasize the connection for this Mathathon to St. Jude's Children's Hospital. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 20:05, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Redirect and article
Now, she has changed her name and it's "Miley Ray Cyrus" but when you hit the "Go" button when you search on "Miley Ray Cyrus" you get redirected to "Miley Cyrus" article, shouldn't it be moved to "Miley Ray Cyrus" and let the "Miley Cyrus" page be the redirect to "Miley Ray Cyrus"? Thanks for reading, leave your comments. --Kanonkas, Take Contact (talk) 09:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure yet. See : there may not be all it's cracked up to be in this name change. It might just be a middle name. The Evil Spartan (talk) 09:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Everything needs to stay the way it is now. Most people have middle names that are mentioned in their article ledes but not in the article title. Articles are named after what the person is most commonly known as, what people are most likely to search on. Redirects are placed on the lesser known alternatives. All her credits are still "Miley Cyrus" and unless and until she starts getting better known by her full name, we need to keep using her stage name. --NrDg 14:43, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure they should change "Destiny Hope Cyrus" at the top of the page since she legally changed her name to Miley (something, possibly Ray) Cyrus. --Red XII ftw (Red XII ftw talk) 12:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Kind of annoying that the answer to the above question is directly in the article as written. And no she HAS NOT changed her name yet. --NrDg 13:44, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Signature?
Is it necessary that we have to add her signature on the page? She's not all to important, currently not a President.--Cinnamonroll (talk) 03:17, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's necessary. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 14:08, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It is illustrative of the person just like the picture. It is a free image from commons. It is not necessary to remove it. Importance is not a criteria for inclusion in wiki - notability is and the subject meets that hurdle. I think it is nice that the autograph of a celebrity is in the article. --NrDg 14:22, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

She did live in Toronto with her dad, Billy RayAlan’s 1st Sweetheart (talk) 21:42, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Verify this or revert this...
What? When did she ever live in Toronto? It seems like we have a jealous "I know she did because I want her to" user. --AOL Alex (talk) 19:13, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The information is well referenced in the article. No need for additional verification. --NrDg 19:17, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Check out this article from the Toronto Star, which contains this line: "She performed the latter half of the 90-minute set as Miley – brunette topped and slightly more mature in style for tunes from her debut album, such as "G.N.O. (Girls Night Out)" and "East Northumberland High," which she explained was named for the Toronto school she attended while living here when her dad, country singing star Billy Ray Cyrus, was filming a TV show." I believe the TV show in question is Doc (TV series). Tabercil (talk) 19:30, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course East Northumberland Secondary School is in Brighton, ON not Toronto... (http://esip.edu.gov.on.ca/english/profiles/school_info.asp?ID=B66079&schoolid=906719) - so... either she lived somewhere closer to school (read: not in Toronto), or she had quite the commute every day... (almost 2 hours according to Google Maps) --Kmenzel (talk) 03:23, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably being loose with city names in the interview - Toronto is an internationally well known city, not many cities close to Toronto are so use Toronto to get people aware of the general location. We go by what we can reference and she said what she said. The error is with her, not us. We don't know where the actual filming of the show was either and there would be no problem if the family lived in Brighton and Billy Ray was the one to commute. We don't know, it is speculation and we have a reference we can use.--NrDg 03:59, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Controversy: the ticket lawsuit
As long as this article has a "Controversy" section, shouldn't there be a mention of the lawsuit against the Miley Cyrus Fan Club over the distribution of concert tickets? (See ABC News for example.) --Metropolitan90 (talk) 07:55, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It is well covered in the article about the concert. See Best of Both Worlds Tour and, since it really has nothing to do with Miley Cyrus, belongs in that article only. --NrDg 16:25, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 18:58, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to agree with Metro's first comment....I think there should at least be a brief mention of the concert ticket distribution fiasco and lawsuit. Further detail can be left to the article on the BoBW Tour, but at least the existence of the controversy should be mentioned.  Readers who then want to know more can go to that page for further info.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.66.193 (talk) 12:13, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Again this has absolutely nothing to do with Cyrus other than she was the headliner on a popular tour that had ticket allocation problems. The issue is adequately covered in the tour article. The most that could be said in this article is that because of her popularity tickets were quickly sold out and hard to come by - if that is backed up with WP:RS analysis. That is not controversial. --NrDg 15:56, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed the ticket lawsuit is an incident that should be unrelated in a controversy section to the Miley Cyrus page. --DavidD4scnrt (talk) 00:25, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Country Pop?
I don't know about including Miley in this genre listing. I think that better describes her dad. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 17:42, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've always wondered about how we do the genre categorization. For everything else we need a reference - for this type of info it seems the wiki culture to let people do their own evaluation and put in what they determine, thus the continuous changes. Is there some WP:RS type commentary or evaluation of a respected music critic that we can reference. I would just remove any genre that is disputed that can't be backed up if it were solely my decision. --NrDg 19:03, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with NrDg on this....even i have never figured out how people manage to add just about any genre to the list.....but then if the infobox has a "genre" field, then we have to add it....i guess then we have to go by the general consensus. Esp. the genres "Hard rock", "Heavy metal" ,"pop", "bubblegum pop" are used interchangingly. guess consensus is the only way out....Gprince007 (talk) 12:01, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Archive time
63 KB...I think it may be time to archive the page. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 19:51, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * sofixit The Evil Spartan (talk) 06:44, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Official MySpace
Her official myspace is http://www.myspace.com/mileycyrus Her personal myspace is http://www.myspace.com/_not_a_poser_ 192.43.227.18 (talk) 23:30, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem putting the official one on. Don't know about the unofficial, if it's even genuine - besides which, it appears to be a privacy leak, and has no part on her page per WP:BLP. The Evil Spartan (talk) 06:42, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Put fan site on http://www.mileycyrusland.com/ ? 130.220.153.164 (talk) 12:52, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, this would be blatantly inappropriate. --Yamla (talk) 17:49, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I think I've found her real myspace, yes the music one is www.myspace.com/mileycyrus but i think the personal one is www.myspace.com/_destinyhopecyrus_ it looks very realistic, with pics I've seen no-where else, and a photos of a message from vanessa hudgens saying it's real. Can someone verify this please? Slydogman920 (talk) 12:28, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Assuming it is, it looks like she forgot to update after the name change became official (partly as a result of the Vanity Fair fallout). WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 15:28, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Math-A-Thon host
I just found out that Miley's this year's Math-A-Thon co-host. Should it be mentioned somewhere that she's doing charity work?Look here for the source! Abcw12 (talk) 00:09, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Saw it. Looks like all systems are go as far as I'm concerned. Just emphasize the connection for this Mathathon to St. Jude's Children's Hospital. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 20:05, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Miley Cyrus Official YouTube youtube.com/mileymandy Miley Cyrus Official MySpace myspace.com/mileycyrus She has no other MySpace —Preceding unsigned comment added by SelenaCyrus (talk • contribs) 01:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Miley Ray Cyrus vs. Destiny Hope Cyrus
See http://www.tmz.com/2008/03/17/a-cyrus-by-any-other-name/. Her name is still Destiny Hope Cyrus - we jumped the gun as the papers to change her name were filed with the court on Mar 14.--NrDg 21:42, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it's official now. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 18:05, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That source agrees with TMZ ... she filed the papers. The judge hasn't ruled yet.Kww (talk) 18:08, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Court has to rule and a public notice still needs to be made to make the change valid. Right now the change is in progress but not done yet. The TMZ source has the primary sourced court filing documents. All other references root to TMZ. --NrDg 18:19, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * WAVY 10 Fan, what is the big rush anyway? Everyone knows about it, there is no point to rush it into the article prematurely. Wait for the legalities to get out of the way, then the change can be made. This article isn't going anywhere, and likely neither are you. ;) Patience is a virtue. --Charitwo talk 19:29, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't know the decision had not become finalized yet until after I posted that. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 20:07, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

See http://www.tmz.com/2008/03/24/miley-cyrus-one-step-closer-to-being-miley-cyrus/. Her name will officially change May 1st after the court hearing. --NrDg 16:53, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

YouTube
Do you think it is relavent to put Miley's YouTube account? It says on the editing page that all suggestions for links should be posted here first. Mouseinthehouse (talk) 17:47, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Almost certainly not, youtube requires proprietary browser plugins to use. Also, do you have evidence that this is indeed her official page?  Even if so, we would normally only need to link to one official site, which would then itself have links to other official sites.  --Yamla (talk) 17:49, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * [ec] I don't think so. What is it used for (ie: what gets posted?), and how do we know it's official? EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 17:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * It is provably her YouTube account as it is videos of her posted by her. The browser plugins are standard plugins so I don't see that as an issue - it works with Firefox, no need to log in to see the videos either. However, it currently has no encyclopedic content. She is planning on some Q&As though and that might give a WP:RS primary source of info to include in the article. I'd suggest waiting until something usable is actually there. --NrDg 19:09, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed; the reliability is a much more significant factor than a "it uses Flash video" argument. Even then, I don't see a need to link to the profile itself; if she's posting material that can be used as sources, than we use those individual files as citations. EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 19:47, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * A slightly orthogonal point is that the fact she has a YouTube channel is WP:N notable by WP:RS reliable sources such as People Magazine. It is impacting her and if this information is included in the article a link to the YouTube channel would be valid as there is background information written by Cyrus herself as to her motivation. --NrDg 20:36, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Main image
Since its pretty high res, could the original uploader crop it so its just of Miley and not of all the blank space around her?--CyberGhostface (talk) 14:01, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless someone beats me to it, I'll try to upload a cropped version to Commons later tonight. EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 15:14, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Miley at charity
Isn't the Miley Cyrus article supposed to include information about Miley helping out at charity. That is what I think. Does anyone agree with me? Kristy22 (talk) 16:53, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem. Find some sources, and add it to the article.Kww (talk) 17:01, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Horrible Picture
The current picture of Miley Cyrus is a horrible picture and Miley looks nothing like that. Her face is turned sideways and you can't even tell that she has dark brown hair, she looks like a blonde in the picture. I suggest to remove the picture and replace it with a better picture. Thanks. calliegal_x (talk) 23:55, 20 March 2008 (UTC)Calliegal
 * I actually might have found a good, freely licensed picture. Let me check it out.--CyberGhostface (talk) 23:58, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, I found a different picture (by the same author) that's freely licensed where she's smiling and posing for the camera instead of being photographed while not looking. She's holding a dog, so I don't know how you feel about that, but I think its better than the current ones.--CyberGhostface (talk) 00:09, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * And if you want a better picture, I suggest you register an account at Flickr, and once you find an image you like (provided that the uploader took it themselves or owns it), send them a message using this standard permission form. Make sure they make it licensed for commons. Good luck! --CyberGhostface (talk) 00:19, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Finally someone came to their senses and put up a much better looking picture! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calliegal (talk • contribs) 00:20, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Name Change
I made her name change a separate paragraph under "personal". It didn't seem to make sense tacked on to the end of his list of friends. CsikosLo (talk) 17:35, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Compromising pictures
I was perusing the internet and I came across these pictures of Miley and a girl in an uncompromising position. They can be found at: []...  Can somebody verify if they're real? Should this be mentioned in the article? It certainly would hurt her reputation...Michael Cook (talk) 07:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


 * How is this unusual, girls do stuff like this all the time. You should take a look around on places like facebook and myspace, add some girl friends and you will see stuff that is a lot less tame than this is. --Charitwo talk 08:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


 * It is private pictures that got leaked and reported by gossip magazines and websites. Until some mainstream reliable source talks about it it is not notable. --NrDg 15:44, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yahoo has talked about it, yes and we think we should put it in. Pregnancy hoax was a yahoo source, too, right? So I think we should report this. It's entirely about her and it's just like a Britney Spears thing, and we've reported those things!-- style="color:#BDBBD7">Alisyn talk 02:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Need a better source than Yahoo. That is just gossip. If it gets picked up by a major news source it should probably go in the article as that would show notability. Gossip sources are unreliable and this might not be anything important. --NrDg 02:33, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

The story got picked up by People magazine, with quotes from Miley Cyrus: http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20168604,00.html --Bayshel (talk) 08:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Agree with NrDg. While I think (hope?) these are a sham like the pregnancy thing, I would wait for something to pass WP:RS on this matter before including. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 14:51, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Even the people web article is still gossip mongering and even most gossip articles have concluded that this is not a major issue for her. Even though the pictures are real, the info won't belong in this article unless it gets picked up and commented on by real news sources. The pregnancy rumor hoax was widely reported in major news sources. This latest "scandal" is too trivial to be in the article as it has no indication of effecting her career in any way (so far). --NrDg 16:39, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I see, I'll take that into consideration next time. Michael Cook (talk) 21:59, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Since it was, as you say, an "uncompromising" position, then it must be perfectly fine. Find a compromising position and perhaps it would be relevant, huh? 208.111.241.155 (talk) 02:34, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Photo Scandal
In her personal life there should be something about her photo scandal. The one with here and a friend messing around on a hotel floor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.177.60.232 (talk • contribs)


 * The pictures of her were a controversy, add them, it was on Access Hollywood. I have a quote too. "It was just me and one of my really good friends having fun. It really sucks, and now she has to go home and deal with this crap. It was two girls having fun, and now that's a big deal, what is the world coming to?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.153.234.235 (talk) 20:16, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Get something in more mainstream publications, not gossip sheets, as a reference. This was spun as a scandal by the gossip magazines themselves. Non-gossip outlets have ignored this other than to comment on the ridiculousness of the "scandal" spin. This type of thing is too trivial to be in an encyclopedia. --NrDg 20:54, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

the star in january 08 had even more disturbing photos showing her and friends with a small shirt on and a swimsuit bottom sized undergarments —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.60.71.94 (talk) 23:39, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It was not disturbing to anybody in the mainstream media and they chose not to give it any coverage. A "scandal" spin by a gossip magazine that does not meet wiki reliable source WP:RS requirements does not merit inclusion in the article. See below on this page for more discussion on this issue. It has been talked about a lot. --NrDg 23:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There's also BLP concerns with that too. Can't risk it.  bibliomaniac 1  5  00:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Photo "Scandal" part 2
Shouldn't people mention her photo controversy? Never mind-i'll do it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.245.118.141 (talk) 22:37, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No - see above for reasons. --NrDg 22:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

um, its an enclyopedia it should include big events in her life and this was a big thing, i know you have to be selective about what you put, but this is a big deal —Preceding unsigned comment added by Curlyb123 (talk • contribs) 10:29, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Not really, anyway, you should be following the discussion below regardless. --Charitwo talk 11:38, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * They're saying she posed topless; half nude. I'm sorry, but that is not topless, her back is bare, that's it. Half nude is the upper or lower half fully exposed. but I forgot how inappropriate showing one's back is. Maybe we should make wearing bathing suits illegal under 18 years of age. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dwilczyn (talk • contribs) 03:11, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Bad article
The article pretty much says that she's a perfect angel and why is it protected!? People should be allowed to change it if there's something wrong with it!!! I personally think that the article could use a lot of work!!! She's not so important that she needs to have her signature on there!!! I mean what is she the queen or something???!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jlynn132 (talk • contribs) 22:50, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Article is only protected against new users registered in last 4 days and anonymous users. Please make any changes you think necessary to improve the article as long as you keep a neutral point of view and add verifiable information derived from reliable sources. See WP:NPOV, WP:V and WP:RS. If you have just registered you will have to wait a bit. --NrDg 00:50, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * And the signature issue was discussed last month and removed, and I should know because I was the one that brought the issue of signatures up. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 16:11, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with this guy, to me, it resembles a fan club article more than anything else. Ganon391 (talk) 05:22, 12 April 2008 (UTC) Ganon391
 * I was just wondering where the section about her teeth was 129.237.215.146 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:15, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Miley Ray Cyrus
According to CMT, Miley had already changed her name in February. Tcatron565 (talk) 22:51, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * see --NrDg 23:05, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Template:Hannah Montana?
Should there be a Template:Hannah Montana to separate Miley's carrer and singles from Hannah's?68DANNY2 (talk) 22:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really, since Miley Cyrus is a person, and Hannah Montana is her show and her character, but if you think it's neccessary, you can try to help out and make one! Be bold! ♥, calliegal_x (talk) 00:22, 1 May 2008 (UTC)Calliegal

Another piece of Controversy
Her on-air conversation with Idaho DJ "KeKe Luv" has recently created quite a stir. After hearing about Luv's attempt to stay awake for seven days, Cyrus suggested purchasing illegal eyedrops from Japan that allow the user to stay awake for two days. This sound clip is archived by the local KISS.FM station, and is played quite frequenly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.60.62.219 (talk) 02:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I've checked the normal news outlets and even the gossip sites and not one of them has mentioned this. Without some WP:RS reliable source that we can WP:V verify that talks to this, it does not belong in the article. --NrDg 03:09, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Illegal eyedrops? Allowing one to stay awake for two days? Are you sure this isn't a joke? WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 17:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This is exactly why we have the notability, reliable source and verifiability requirements. --NrDg 18:08, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Even if backed by sources, this news seems too trivial and tabloid type....it is definitely not notable according to me....Gprince007 (talk) 04:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Do we really need this??
Do we really need info about video of her and Jiroux dancing against Jon Chu and Adam Sevani of Step Up 2??? Infact it sounds like fan-posting and doesnt seem so notable??? I mean who is Jiroux ,Jon chu and Adams Sevani ???? Gprince007 (talk) 08:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree too. And Jiroux is Mandy Jiroux, Miley's friend/dancer and she's in the Miley and Mandy Show. ♥, calliegal_x (talk) 00:23, 1 May 2008 (UTC)Calliegal

Merging Miley & Mandy
As you can see, here. Please state your meaning here about a possible merge. I mean this should be deleted, if it isn't very much notable that it needs it own article. I would also say it would need more WP:V and references. Here is one but again the WP:N -- 'Kanonkas' : Take Contact  15:15, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Merging sounds fine to me....Even i had my doubts about the notability of the show having its own article....anyways while merging the article, we shd take care not to give undue weightage to the show...Afterall the show has only Miley as a celebrity. Other characters from the show are virtually unknown.... Gprince007 (talk) 15:33, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I agre, merging sounds about right, I don't think the show should have it's own article, but I don't think it should be ignored completely.slydogman920 (talk) Slydogman920 (talk) 12:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think that this article should be merged into Miley Cyrus. The title for the article is misunderstood, as the creator of it created it as "Miley & Mandy". I believe now this has been changed to "The Miley & Mandy Show", which is what the article discusses. The article has been edited and given more information and more sources/references. This article has no need to be merged as this discusses the youtube show in which Miley Cyrus and Mandy Jiroux created and star in. The information on this page does not need to be listed under Miley Cyrus, as this is not details on her life. The notability on this will grow sooner as the page becomes a stronger article and more information about the subject has been released. Right now, there is no more information which can be added as all information on the subject has been added. The show has become ever popular and many people will be looking it up in search engines, and will come up with this page.--Tiah12345 (talk) 07:15, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * i think the article should stay as is. its link from miely is only because mandy jiroux is virtually unkowned to the world. this show is become a online phnenomnena and deserves its place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.154.127.28 (talk) 16:04, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Please be more specific -- 'Kanonkas' : Take Contact  10:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think we need to not separate the articles. Especially not with Miley Cyrus. This article is about a show with Miley and Mandy on YouTube. It gives information that, if spruced up and edited correctly, could be useful. It just looks really bad now because there haven't been very good edits on the article. Tcatron565 (talk) 19:35, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the two articles should stand on their own. The Miley & Mandy show is becoming more notable as time passes by; I've just searched google and found some decent references   that may help sourcing this article. Granted, is in poor state for the time being, but the sources show some potential for improvement, and the length of Miley & Mandy article alone suggests it would cause trouble merging it with another article (WP:LENGTH problem here) So, I think we could try improve the show article and keep it separate from this one. --PeaceNT (talk) 10:48, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Movie
Near the beginning it says the movie will be released in late 2008 or earley 2009. The date has been confirmed of May 1 2009, I would change it but this article is "Semi-protected".--kcin 00:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Please provide your reliable citation. --Yamla (talk) 00:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * http://www.variety.com/article/vr1117981211.html?categoryid=13&cs=1 sorry for not posting that origenley.--kcin 01:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kcinnickelodeon (talk • contribs)

New Album
If you go to www.cdvuplus.com, when it says "Coming Soon in 2008" it has her name listed. Do we need to add this information under discography as TBA? MusicBoi94 (talk) 03:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC) --NrDg 04:03, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd like to see something that specifies an actual release date. I don't know how reliable that site is. --NrDg 04:03, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It doesn't look fan-made, and Hollywood Records' official MySpace gives you the link to it MusicBoi94 (talk) 08:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I probably would save that link and wait for more info before adding that to the article and/or related articles. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 19:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

There are leaks of 3 songs from it, Don't Walk Away, Full Circle, and Four Walls, all over Youtube. All descriptions of all uploads of the song call the album Breakout. Just search "Miley Cyrus Don't Walk Away" or "Miley Cyrus Full Circle" Or "Miley Cyrus Four Walls" you can tell they're her.80.194.167.14 (talk) 18:06, 27 April 2008 (UTC)-


 * Thank you, but those are all remakes of the songs by other artists. Don't Walk Away was originally by Nick Carter, Full Circle and Four Walls were originally by Cheyenne Kimball. Maybe those are just demos or maybe Miley recorded it for fun? I have no idea. ♥, calliegal_x (talk) 00:25, 1 May 2008 (UTC)Calliegal

UK/Australia Tour
and and all have news saying that the Best of Both Worlds Concert Tour will be coming to both the UK and Australia, the actual tour, not the 3D movie. They are getting this news from an interview with Miley, should this be included in her page?