Talk:Military history of the North-West Frontier

Suggestions for improvement
Some suggestions for improving this article:


 * References - there are large tracts of information without a reference
 * Internal links - many of the internal links in the article do not exist and need to be created
 * Some of the information is disjointed, or does not flow in an easy to read and understand narrative

If anyone can help with this, it would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.AustralianRupert (talk) 09:55, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I can help with details for the late 19th and early 20th century from the official despatches and histories.

I think that the chronology needs some attention first.

What is intended by Operations against the Mahsuds (1923)?

Is this a reference to the destruction of Makin that year?

Why is this listed when it was a single event during the road-building operations of 1921-24, which are not listed?

What is intended by Operations against the Mohmands (1927)?

Cannot make sense of this entry.
 * Am now aware of this episode. FwdObserver (talk) 02:55, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Amritsar is in the Punjab, not the North-West Frontier Province.

Is the Massacre of 1919 relevant to the chronology of the Military History of the NWFP?
 * The Third Afghan War 1919 Official Account does mention Amritsar in the context of other disturbances in the Punjab in April 1919, so it is relevant. FwdObserver (talk) 02:55, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

FwdObserver (talk) 03:44, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

This article on the military history of the NW Frontier already extends to Baluchistan, south of the NWFP proper. To avoid confusion the introduction needs to acknowledge that it covers both provinces.

Given this geography, the ethno-linguistic label 'Pakhtun' and its derivatives seem more appropriate for this article than does 'Pashtun', which is the form of the southern dialect spoken in Afghanistan.

The section on the Frontier Corps belongs in a seperate article. There is already such an article covering the Frontier Corps after 1947. Therefore moving the section to a new article entitled "Frontier Corps (1900-1947) seems appropriate.

FwdObserver (talk) 21:10, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

The section on the Sikh Empire is too long and does not fit in the chronology. There are already articles dedicated to both the Sikh Empire and Ranjit Singh. There's no need to list the latters heirs and successors here. The section needs to be pruned, and balanced by another short one on the other main player, Afghanistan.

As noted above the section on the Frontier Corps wants to be split out to a separate article. Additional short sections are needed on the Punjab Irregular Force, and its successor the Punjab Frontier Force, and also the Corps of Guides.

FwdObserver (talk) 11:00, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Mohmand Discrepancy
There are two articles that link to Mohmand expedition, and are referring to an action that took place in 1908. Mohmand expedition is a redirect to Military history of the North-West Frontier which lists Mohmand expedition (1908) in the cronology, which in turn links out to First Mohmand Campaign which is a redirect to Mohmand campaign of 1897–98 (eleven years prior to the phantom 1908 event). In Second Mohmand Campaign, which is a redirect to Mohmand campaign of 1935, there is the following history given: The Second Mohmand Campaign of 1935 was a British military campaign... The First Mohmand Campaign in 1897–98 followed earlier military expeditions in 1851–1852, 1854, 1864, 1879, 1880, and there was a small expedition in 1933, taking about a month in August." If there really was a 1908 expedition, there is no article on it and various links/redirects are wrong.  If there was no such thing, then at least three articles are wrong. MB (talk) 05:20, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, there does appear to have been a 1908 expedition in Mohmand:, but it seems to be of a less formal status than the others. — Nizolan  (talk) 14:54, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I did a quick fix to this article turning Mohmand Expedition of 1908 into a red link.

Guides khaki.
"The cotton was dyed grey with a derivative of a dwarf palm known as mazari, while the leather was dyed khaki with mulberry juice. Thus was military dress first coloured khaki for its camouflage effect, and the Guides were the first troops to wear it.[52]"

The source of Jackson's assertion here is not clear. The factoid quoted above has been repeated many times since his book 'India's Army' was first published in 1940. There is no no evidence that the mazari palm, used mainly for weaving,with some limited food value, has any utility as a dye stuff. In the long list of 'Indian Dye Yielding plants' there is no mention of mazari palm. (Natural Dyes from Forest Biomass. PDF Download from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272480240_Natural_Dyes_from_Forest_Biomass.)

Mulberry dye, in this instance comes not from juice of the mulberry fruit, Morus nigra but either from the roots and bark of the Indian mulberry, Morinda citrifolia (See above). Alternatively, the dye known as old fustic is produced from the heartwood of the  Dyers' Mulberry plant, Chlorophora tinctoria/ Maclura tinctoria.  (See: http://www.maiwa.com/pdf/natural_dyeing.pdf)

Berries in general are generally categorised as ineffective, or'fugitive' dyestuffs, although it seems Morus Nigra can be used to create a purple dye (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_dye#cite_note-46), which is not relevant to the military context here, although it was the exterior of sheepskin coats- poshteen- to which Jackson was referring ('jerkins of sheepskin'], rather than leather accoutrements. JF42 (talk) 21:40, 17 August 2021 (UTC)