Talk:Minor League Baseball/Archive 1

Table help
Can somebody help me with this table? I have some extraneous entries between the table title and the beginning of the table, and I can't figure out where they're coming from. I'm not very good at this table thing. :-( -- Zoe


 * Found 'em. A few of the &lt;tr&gt; tags were missing the &lt;. I find it's easier to track down the problem bits if you do a "view source" on the page from your browser; the broken tags will appear in sequence there, and with at least some browsers (ex, Mozilla) there'll appear highlighted in a different color from the working tags, so they're easier to spot. --Brion VIBBER

Separated the list
Since this page grew too big, I separated the list of teams into a separate article. WhisperToMe 02:47, 14 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I apologize if I edit someone else's comments. It really isn't clear to me how someone should simply add a comment here.

Regarding the very end of the article, what is the basis for the comparison of the Florida/Albuquerque attendance? It looks to me like Florida outdrew Albuquerque by more than 2 to 1 on the season.

Independent minor league baseball
There is a gaping hole in this article regarding independent leagues. Iceberg3k 14:22, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Bull Durham
I think the effect the movie Bull Durham had on minor league baseball should be mentioned. From the movie's wikipedia article: "Most of all, Bull Durham revived interest in minor league baseball, which had been stagnating in small-town areas for decades, to where minor league teams achieve decent attendance and are even subject to relocation/bidding wars between communities." Wangster 05:45, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Another reference from here "Then there was the Hollywood factor. When baseball's longtime unofficial rival began making baseball films, seats began to fill more rapidly at the ball park. Hollywood produced a flood of successful baseball movies that caught itself up in the game's rising popularity. The most direct hit from the minor league perspective was Bull Durham (1988), written and directed by former minor leaguer Ron Shelton. Instantly, the demand for Durham Bulls souvenirs shot upward on a national scale, and other minor league front offices noticed a significant coattail effect for their merchandise." Wangster 05:51, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Minor League vs. minor league?
This article distinguishes minor league baseball from Minor League Baseball; It seems like most of the content of this article, other than independant leagues should fall under the Minor League article, though I could be wrong...? I found it confusing to determine what actually fell under Minor League Baseball vs. independant... TheHYPO 07:49, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the articles should remain seperate. "minor league baseball" is about minor league baseball as a group of leagues playing in below the major leagues -- a concept.  "Minor League Baseball" is about an organization, officially and legally titled as such, which operates minor league baseball in the U.S. --CPAScott 13:47, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with nonmerger per CPAScott. Kinston eagle 12:47, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I also agree with a nonmerger of the articles. The distinction that CPAScott identifies is significant and important.  Independent leagues that are not part of  "Minor League Baseball"  should be under "minor league baseball" and can't rightly be put in with "Minor League Baseball".  12:50, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I definitely support a nonmerger. Nick22aku 20:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I would also like to see more of a history on minor league baseball. I can't even conceive of the amount of effort it might take, but I recall older relatives talking about local B,C, and D teams that played in practically every small city before TV.  Some were "affiliates" of major league teams, but would get 20-30 used gloves, etc. for their work. Autkm (talk) 06:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I support nonmerger for the reasons cited by CPAScott dashiellx (talk) 10:59, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

GA Failed
This article failed the GA noms due to lack of references. Tarret 00:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Professionalism in minor leagues
Are the minor leagues really professional? I thought that it was amateur just because of its position below the major leagues. Scott Gall 04:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes indeed, they are professional; all players are under contract and receive pay. Of course, at the lowest levels, the pay isn't much.Wschart 16:45, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Hyphenation?
I did not want to storm in and make changes, but it seems to me that except in the formal name of the organization "Minor League Baseball" (where the form is up to the owner of the name) "minor-league" as a compound adjective ought always to be hyphenated: "minor-league baseball", including in the title of the article. Would anyone have problems with that? Owlcroft 22:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Class vs. Term?
Typically Double A and Triple A are not called Class AA or Class AAA but Single A is called Class A or Class A Advanced


 * The terms (Triple-A vs AAA) are interchangeable. And there are three single-A levels - high-A, low-A, and short-season A. | Mr. Darcy talk 19:51, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the are four. The rookie leagues, even though they play a "short" season that starts June 19, are not considered the same level as the short-season A leagues - but they ARE considered to be a level within Class A. In fact, one of the two rookie leagues is considered higher than the other - as someone says elsewhere on this page - so if we differentiate High-A and Low-A we probably have to differentiate Rookie and Rookie-Advanced and say there are five divisions of Class A.

This was all actually a lot simpler when there were truly separate levels below AA, all the way down to D. I suppose it came out of the same mentality that makes building management call basements "the ground floor." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Patrick M. Sullivan (talk • contribs) 18:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Patrick M. Sullivan (talk) 18:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Merger Question
By all means merge this article with Minor League Baseball. Kenallen 02:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Seems a bit silly to have two such similarly themed articles! Merge 'em! MeegsC | Talk 08:26, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Why is there even discussion? Merge these now. Brandonrush 23:08, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Would an expert on this topic please merge. phish_bulb 18:55, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge! This confuses as is. One article can explain the various levels, organizations and types of baseball in the minors. Goeverywhere 04:51, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

A prior poster has a better solution, this article should properly be named minor-league baseball and should not be merged with an article that is about one specific entity, namely the association of farm clubs run by Major League baseball known as Minor League Baseball. Awotter 20:29, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge. The separation presupposes that the reader already knows the distinction, and is quite confusing for the layman. Jd2718 12:54, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree that as it currently is set up, it is very confusing to someone who would not expect minor league baseball to refer to two different (but not wholly separate entities). I would vote against merging as they are separate and a combined article could be as confusing as the current situation. Two articles written probably by a single person on both subjects referring to the other but emphasizing the differences would probably be best. Autkm (talk) 06:24, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. In my opinion, these two should DEFINITELY be merged. But how does one go about doing this? --Mm40 (talk) 01:36, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, for one thing one waits for a consensus to develop. Also, one gives reasons for one's opinions. I most emphatically disagree that these articles should be merged. One article, the proper noun, refers to a specific organization of leagues with ties to major league teams. The common-noun title is the generic name for all minor leagues, including many that are not affiliated with the majors; where would discussion of these leagues go? The two articles discuss different subjects, and merger would only further confuse the issue. The confusion arises from the organization appropriating the common noun for use as its proper name. Merger would be akin to merging Window (computing) with Microsoft Windows.

That being said, although much of the history is relevant to both the organization and minors in general, it should be edited with at least some degree of emphasis on the development of teams not affiliated with the majors. And the discussion of levels is a discussion of Minor League Baseball the organization, not minor league baseball the type of league, and should be removed from this article and placed in Minor League Baseball.

Much of the content of this page pertains only to the Minor League Baseball organization. That does not mean, however, that there is no need for an article on minor league baseball, the levels of professional baseball that are below the major leagues in quality of play.

I am interested in hearing other viewpoints, but one or two word assertions do not make an argument. This is, after all, a discussion page. Please, why should they be merged?Illexsquid (talk) 19:20, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

So, this has been discussed for nearly 9 months with no conclusion? Makes you wonder what the level of interest is. The dilemma is that the National Association renamed itself Minor League Baseball, while teams in the Northern League, for example, are clearly minor leagues but without the NA affiliation. However, there's not enough info to really justify a separate article about "Minor League Baseball", as I see it. One approach would be to use the Baseball America Directory approach and treat them all as nearly-alike, with a nod to MiLB as being obviously a much larger organization than the independents. But at the very least, there needs to be disambiguation. The upper vs. lower case is confusing. MiLB could be renamed as MiLB (organization). Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 13:25, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Strongly in favor of this approach. Minor League Baseball (the corporate entity) is an established organization and needs to be referred to as such (either as "MiLB" or "Minor League Baseball", it doesn't really matter), but it's also important to have an article referring to minor league baseball (the idea). Perhaps call the generic article "Minor league professional baseball" instead? That at least provides both the necessary context and allows for a discussion of all the minor leagues, be they affiliated with MiLB or not. Obviously, there would then be a variety of articles providing more context on various aspects or divisions of the minor league system. Duncan1800 (talk) 04:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * "Minor league professional baseball" is not a term anyone would think to look for. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 09:44, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

My main objection to a merge is simply that not all minor league baseball teams are part of Minor League Baseball. The independent leagues {such as the Northern League) are not part of Minor League Baseball. They are separate entities altogether. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 11:57, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the majority view that it is appropriate to have separate articles for "minor league baseball," the concept, and "Minor League Baseball," the organization which includes many but not all minor leagues. However, much of the information now presented in THIS article is specifically about affiliated leagues and the mechanics of farm systems. I think this specific information--anything which does NOT apply to the independent minors--should be moved over. Spark240 (talk) 02:52, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It might surprise some of you to learn that the term "National Association" is still very much alive. Baseball America Directory as well as the MiLB site itself still use the NA term in the present tense. It's as if the NA is the organization and MiLB is the "brand". Whether that helps or hinders the decision on this point remains to be seen. However, the obvious thing to do would be to rename the capitalized MiLB to MiLB Organization, and link it within the generic Milb article along with links to the non-affiliated minor leagues.
 * In short, Do Not Merge. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 11:09, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

2 Class As?
I don't know, but am confused: Can 'Class A' refer to two different classifications? Is this a mistake? I don't know how the minor leagues are arranged, but if there are two Class-A classifications, that should be made clear for laymen like me. Right now it looks like a mistake. Thmazing (talk) 19:29, 1 November 2008 (UTC)


 * "Class A" in this case refers both to the collective grouping of Class A Advanced/Class A/Short Season Class A, as well as one of the groups within the broader category. Perhaps the higher-level header should be renamed to "Single-A". Thoughts, anyone? -Dewelar (talk) 19:40, 1 November 2008 (UTC)


 * No one else is commenting, but as someone who doesn't know before reading the article and would like to understand things after reading the article, that sounds like it might help. Thmazing (talk) 21:23, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I just did a little rewording which, hopefully, will make it clear that "Class A" describes three distinct levels. "Single-A" doesn't seem to be an official term used by MiLB. -NatureBoyMD (talk) 00:12, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I think that edit helps a lot. It's much clearer to me now. Well done.


 * Can we find a citation for the they-usually-are-there-to-work-on-pitching-or-batting claim?Thmazing (talk) 16:21, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

The lower-level classifications used to be A, B, C, D. When they reorganized things in the early 1960s, they decided to call everything A or AA or AAA so that nobody would feel "second class" (B,C,D). But that muddied the waters, as there are still different classifications within. Currently you have Triple-A, Double-A, High Class A, Low Class A, Short-Season, Rookie Advanced, and Rookie. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 16:35, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Merged?
Although a merger doesn't seem to have been approved on this talk page, the pages Minor League Baseball -- which refers to the association of leagues with teams affiliated with major league clubs (a legal organization) -- and Minor league baseball -- which refers to the concept, were merged. As it stands, all of minor league baseball is being represented by the Minor League Baseball organization logo, which is blatantly misleading. Minor leagues such as the Northern_League_(baseball), the Canadian-American_Association_of_Professional_Baseball, the Golden_Baseball_League, and the Atlantic_League_of_Professional_Baseball, possibly among others, are *not* members of the Minor League Baseball association, and classifying them as such is simply wrong. This isn't nitpicking -- it's an important distinction.

I propose that the old Minor League Baseball article be re-instated, that this article be renamed "Minor league professional baseball", and that the page "Minor league baseball" disambiguate to both articles with an explanation similar to the above. 24.115.58.35 (talk) 08:28, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Completely agreed. The current set-up is just incorrect; between the logo from the MiLB organization being the main illustration, and the fact that there is a rather large section of the article devoted purely to the MiLB, there is potentially more confusion than the previous seperate articles. I think a split back to two seperate pages paired with a disambiguation page would be the perfect solution. 98.198.7.30 (talk) 20:50, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

move Mexican League from AAA list?
Shouldn't the Mexican League be moved from the AAA list? Since they are not affiliated with major league teams, doesn't the Mexican League belong with the independent teams list? Thoughts, anyone? Elsquared (talk) 22:28, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Although the clubs are unaffiliated, the Mexican League is apparently part of the National Association and is considered to be AAA level. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:43, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Note the inclusion of the Mexican League standings, for example, on MiLB.com. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:48, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Classification Sections
I have been monitoring the lists of franchise cities in the sections regarding each minor league classification. These lists, particularly in sections regarding upper-level classifications, have become compilations of more than a dozen cities as users add their own cities to the list. In my opinion, these lists of cities are meant to provide a general picture of city demographics of each level. Instead, they have become an advertising board for residents of minor league baseball cities to promote their home city. In my opinion, the inclusion of this large amount of cities is unnecessary and irrelevant to the article.

My suggestion is for the lists to be limited to 1-2 cities for each league included in a particular classification. This should adequately provide readers with a general picture of each classification's city demographics. As it will most likely be problematic to decide which cities are included, perhaps the city of the league's current defending champion and runner-up can be used to avoid argument. For example the Triple-A section would include the metropolitan area of Scranton and Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania (IL defending champs Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Yankees) and Durham, North Carolina (IL defending runner-up Durham Bulls) to represent the International League. The AAA section would also include Sacramento, California (PCL defending champs Sacramento RiverCats) and Oklahoma City, Oklahoma (PCL defending runner-ups Oklahoma City Redhawks) to represent the Pacific Coast League.

Please sound in with your thoughts on alternative ideas or if you do not view this issue as a major problem.

-Kithira (talk) 21:06, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm aware of this problem too. Something needs to be done about it. I like your idea about winners/runners-up. City population may be another factor to consider.-NatureBoyMD (talk) 21:20, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * If two cities per league seems to be a good number, then perhaps the defending champion and the city with the highest population would be the best solution. If the championship city was also the most populous, then the second most populous city could be used.-Kithira  (talk) 23:59, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * That sounds like a good idea. -NatureBoyMD (talk) 03:02, 24 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Alright then I'll implement that solution barring any objections on this thread. -Kithira (talk) 12:08, 24 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Update- Have decided to utilize champion and highest average attendance (2nd if also champion) cities due to ambiguity between different sources of population. Will implement at end of 2009 seasons barring objections.Kithira  (talk) 21:57, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by nominator. (non-admin closure) George Ho (talk) 16:33, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Minor League Baseball → Minor league baseball – The article covers two things:, the general concept of "minor league baseball" (lower cased), and the organized body known as Minor League Baseball (upper cased) that contains most but not all minor leagues. As such the title should be decapitalized per WP:NCCAPS. I'd do this myself but the edit history has been mangled by cut-and-paste moves that need repairing, so discussion is warranted. --Relisted. Steel1943 (talk) 07:43, 7 November 2013 (UTC) Cúchullain t/ c  02:27, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:46, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Split? If not, then support. Red Slash 23:07, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose Minor League Baseball is the proper name of the organization. Hot Stop talk-contribs 00:14, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, and as I said, this article doesn't cover just the organization, but the concept of "minor league baseball", including leagues not in the organization. For instance, the independent baseball leagues and leagues that existed before the organization.--Cúchullain t/ c 00:19, 31 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Oppose I see where you're coming from, and a split isn't necessarily a bad idea, but I think the article is primarily discussing the current organization of this name. Major League Baseball also has a history section that covers quite some time before the establishment of the present organization. I see this article less as a discussion of the general concept of minor league baseball so much as the current organization, which naturally includes some discussion of its broader context. If I saw this as a tie, I'd defer to NCCAPS, but like in the epic game between the Rochester Red Wings and Pawtucket Red Sox, I think one side edges it out. --BDD (talk) 19:23, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It definitely needs to be cleaned up, but in both the intro and throughout the article it does discuss "minor league baseball" leagues that aren't part of "Minor League Baseball". The difference with Major League Baseball is there are no other "major league" teams not part of the organization. Only a few other "major leagues" have ever existed, the last in 1915. In "minor league baseball" there are various independent baseball leagues and they're covered by both reliable sources and the article.--Cúchullain t/ c 19:40, 6 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I've left a notification with WikiProject Baseball, which I hope is nice and neutral. --BDD (talk) 17:57, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The article is primarily about the organization of the same name, as spelled out in the intro paragraph and the info box.Spanneraol (talk) 18:32, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose – as stated above by others, the article focuses primarily on the actual organization. If you do place the title in lower case, you'd have to remove the infobox and logo, since it would be contradictory, on one hand, to claim this article is on the general concept, while affiliating it with the organization. —Bloom6132 (talk) 20:02, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * As I say, the article does need to be cleaned up. The infobox could easily be moved to a section on the organization, or replaced with a more generic one. But the fact remains that the article does discuss minor league baseball outside of Minor League Baseball (tm) - more now that I've expanded the offering on independent leagues- and there's currently no better place for that material.--Cúchullain t/ c 20:07, 7 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Honestly, the article was quite clearly about the organizton, and the additions of the section on independent leagues, which already have a separate article, was the only thing that made its scope unclear. As such, I think the addition was a mistake, as uh fundamentaly changed the nt re of the article without discussion. I would revert the addition and keep the upper case. oknazevad (talk) 20:51, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm going to withdraw this request as there's clearly no consensus for it at this point. However, please not that merging minor league baseball (the general topic) with Minor League Baseball was the result of a merge discussion in 2009, which placed the merged article at the lower-case title. However, it has been moved around by copy-and-paste since then and the move history is a disaster. Given that as of the last discussion the consensus was for one article on both topics, I'm going to continue to add material on non-organized minor league baseball to this article, and we can discuss splitting or moving at a later point.--Cúchullain t/ c 16:16, 13 November 2013 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

240 Teams
Can someone please show me where the article is getting the information that there are 240 Teams? Isn't it actually 246?

DiamondNRG (talk) 05:07, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Split
Minor League Baseball is a legal organization, while Minor league baseball is about the general concept of minor league baseball, and it's very confusing to have them both on one page. From reading this talk page and Talk:Minor league baseball, it seems clear that there has only been tepid support at best for this article covering two topics. It's time we split these up again. - BilCat (talk) 14:54, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm undecided on this... It is kindof helpful to have all the information on the minor leagues in one place and having two articles that essentially have the same title, with different capitalization can be really confusing to people who are not familiar with the concept. However, you are correct that the article appears to be about the organization of that title.. I'm not sure what the best way to approach this is, but if they are split the page titles need to be differentiated in some other manner so people who arent baseball experts can figure out quickly which is which. Spanneraol (talk) 16:03, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree it's a good point. "Minor league baseball" includes all of the unaffiliated leagues, which are not part of "Minor League Baseball". A disambiguator might help, such as "Minor League Baseball (organization)". – Muboshgu (talk) 16:04, 18 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I consider the titles a minor issue that can be worked out later. The main point of course is that these are two separate topics, not one, and should be covered separately. - BilCat (talk) 16:12, 18 September 2014 (UTC)


 * This is a good idea. Either it needs to happen, or we need to rename the article "Minor league baseball" and expand the coverage of non-organized baseball in the past and present. As for the title, per WP:DIFFCAPS, two articles with names that are capitalized differently are perfectly acceptable. We can easily distinguish them with hat notes.--Cúchullain t/ c 17:16, 18 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Cúchullain, I thought that was allowed in the guidelines. If the similar titles do become too confusing down the road, we can consider disambiguating one or both titles. - BilCat (talk) 17:27, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Since the only objections have been answered, are there any further objections to splitting? If not, I'll go ahead and perform the split. Thanks. - BilCat (talk) 04:29, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know if we really need to split anything additionally. We already have independent baseball leagues covering the non-affiliated leagues. What I would do is remove the extensive material here about the independent leagues (which was part of a relatively recent expansion) and place a hatnote stating "This article is about the Major League Baseball-affiliated organization and its component leagues. For non-affiliated leagues, see Independent baseball leagues." We already have two articles, this one's scope just needs clarifying back to what it was. No need to make another article with a too-similar title. (Even though the guidelines allow for capitalization to be the only disambiguation, it's poor practice because the chance for errors in links is too high. ) oknazevad (talk) 12:06, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
 * No, not really, especially since the MLB-affiliated organization has only been called "Minor League Baseball" since 1999. The problem is that the article tries to include material on the organization with historical information on lower-case minor league baseball before there was an organization (and continuing well after). That information wouldn't be better placed at an article on independent leagues than it is here. I guess in reality the two articles shouldn't have been merged in the first place. We need an article covering lower-case "minor league baseball"; since folks are resistant to doing that here, a split's the only option. --Cúchullain t/ c 13:23, 8 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I concur with Cúchullain. It's theoretically possible for an independent.league to call itself a major league, as with the United Baseball League (proposed), or even the Federal League and Continental League. - BilCat (talk) 13:38, 8 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I guess let's put it this way. Before 1901, when the NAPBL was formed, there was minor league baseball but no Minor League Baseball. In the early 20th century, there was both NAPBL and independent baseball. Even in the later 20th century, there was still noteworthy minor league baseball that was not NAPBL, including the Provincial League, the "outlaw" Carolina League, and the Portland Mavericks. Since 1993, both NAPBL/"Minor League Baseball" and independent baseball have been well established. Heck, there's professional minor league baseball in Japan, South Korea, and Mexico that's not "Minor League Baseball", not to mention the old Negro minors. Most if not all of that needs to be covered in an article, if not this one, then another.--Cúchullain t/ c 14:38, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

I too would support a split, or at least a renaming to Minor league baseball, which may fairly be said to include both topics. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 13:29, 28 November 2014 (UTC).

246 Teams or 176 Teams?
Can someone explain why the article states MILB consists of 19 leagues comprised of 246 teams when the MILB website says 15 leagues and 176 teams? I found the latter numbers on a news release about MILB attendance in 2015 (http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20150909&content_id=148297748&fext=.jsp&vkey=pr_milb&sid=milb).Pistongrinder (talk) 15:20, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Because MiLB clearly omitted some leagues/teams. The foreign-based ones (Venezuela Summer League, Dominican Summer League and Mexican League), if removed, gives 16 U.S.-based leagues with 190 teams. That still means there's one, 14-team league unaccounted for. But the MiLB website clearly lists all 19 leagues (see here), so it's pretty clear whoever wrote that press release was only counting the U.S.-based leagues and still messed up. Fortunately we can actually count. oknazevad (talk) 16:38, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Works for me. Thanks for the clarification.Pistongrinder (talk) 19:58, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

History note

 * And see Talk:Minor League Baseball/old version. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 23:20, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Umpires
The lead to the "Umpires" section is rather confusing. It contains a broken link, an incomplete sentence, and an odd reference to the "National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues," which is what Minor League Baseball used to be called. According to MiLB.com, "Minor League Baseball Umpire Development is the entity which is responsible for the training, evaluation, and recommendation for promotion, retention, or release of all umpires in the Minor League Baseball system throughout the United States and Canada." I propose replacing what's on there now with this statement and source.Pistongrinder (talk) 00:00, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The source is good, but don't copy the exact wording; the current one, fixing the obvious grammatical mistake (which I believe was overslzealous autocorrect; that's what I get for editing on my phone) is a good paraphrase. But I'll update the reference. oknazevad (talk) 02:14, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks good. Thanks.Pistongrinder (talk) 22:52, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

246 or 240 teams?
The lead says 246 teams, but the infobox says 240. Is there a source that can tell us definitively which one it is so we can fix the discrepancy?Pistongrinder (talk) 21:59, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * If I'm reading this right, MiLB recognizes 246 teams. With that, I feel OK changing the infobox to match the main text.Pistongrinder (talk) 22:07, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Founding
The infobox says MiLB was founded in 1868 (but no exact date). This is not supported anywhere else in the article, and I can find no sources that back it up. Is there some reference to 1868 being the official beginning of the organization that I am missing? If not, it appears to contradict what the organization itself says about its origins: "The National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues, now known as Minor League Baseball, was formed on September 5, 1901." I'm inclined to change the infobox at this point.Pistongrinder (talk) 21:06, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It's probably a reference to the earliest date of professional baseball (though that would actually be 1869). But as none of the current constituent leagues date back that far, and the actual umbrella organization, the National Association/MiLB dates to 1901, it's just wrong. Maybe the person who put it there was confusing the organization now known as MiLB with the National Association of Baseball Players, the originally amateur organization that authorized the introduction of professional play. I'm going to change it to 1901, though with a note that the date refers to the formation of the NA/MiLB, as there are leagues that predate it that are still around. oknazevad (talk) 05:41, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Buffer Zone
I though I read that Minor League Baseball has a set mile radius that teams needs to set apart from. If there are cities inside that radius, they are force to be in independent league or collegiate summer baseball league. Is that true? --BigMac1212 (talk) 13:16, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I believe that falls under the parent major league club's territorial restrictions, and is lessened for minor league teams.
 * Clearly there are some cases where multiple affiliated teams are nearby, such as the Brooklyn Cyclones and Staten Island Yankees. That's a pretty unique situation, though, since both teams are well within the parent clubs' territories. I think that was allowed because each parent club signed off on the presence of the other's affiliate in exchange for permission to have their own. For other situations, it's often a matter of being at different classifications, though that might still require everybody signing off on it.
 * And that's what it's really about. These rules are flexible and exceptions can easily be made. It doesn't take an act of congress. oknazevad (talk) 15:03, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Southwest Baseball League
Local news broke this week about the formation of the Southwest Baseball League, an all-Texas league starting in 2018. The source refers to it as "minor league," but it's unclear to me if it will actually be part of the MiLB organization. Is this just a new independent league?Pistongrinder (talk) 16:30, 25 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Independent. NatureBoyMD (talk) 17:26, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I think I'll mention this news over on the Independent baseball league page.Pistongrinder (talk) 18:54, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Salaries below poverty line
Interesting article about how little minor league players make. May be a little controversial, but I think it could be added to the 4th paragraph of the Players section.Pistongrinder (talk) 17:12, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and made an edit using the above source. However, I didn't feel it was necessary to call out the poverty line. Too tendentious, I think.Pistongrinder (talk) 16:25, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 3 January 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by proposer. Station1 (talk) 20:02, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Minor League Baseball → Minor league baseball – Per Cuchullain's withdrawn proposal in 2013, this article is a merge of the generic topic of minor league baseball with the topic on the organization Minor League Baseball. There is no good reason for the article to be titled as the proper name of just one part of the topic. Let's get this sorted. Dicklyon (talk) 03:05, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. This article is about the organization. The addition of material regarding the generic use (that is the independent leagues) was a mistake. Let's not compound it by moving the article. oknazevad (talk) 14:54, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. It does seem clear that the thrust of this article is about the organization, even with the inclusion of the independent league material. This may be a rare occasion where a two-article dab page might be the best solution - Minor league baseball could point to both Minor League Baseball and Independent baseball league. Or it might be its own page incorporating fuller information about both. But this page is about the organization. Dohn joe (talk) 16:01, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose per the aboves.  Calidum   23:23, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Withdraw – with the above good suggestions for how to fix the problem, I suggest someone work on those, and I withdraw my proposal to move; someone should close. Dicklyon (talk) 05:25, 4 January 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Salary lawsuit
Looks like a judge has revived the class action suit claiming MiLB players get paid less than minimum wage. I've commented before on minor league pay, which seems to me to be a relevant yet under-addressed topic. At what point, if at all, does this story become noteworthy enough to include on the page?Pistongrinder (talk) 15:35, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Hm. Interesting. I would think a brief mention with the material on player pay in the "Players" section would be a good spot for it. Just be careful not to make it too long so it dominates the section. oknazevad (talk) 15:40, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Add to List of Minor League Baseball leagues and teams
Should the Intercounty Baseball League not be included in this list? It is similar to other leagues listed here. It has a lot of history and ties with Major League Baseball.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.2.247.34 (talk) 15:39, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It's an amateur league. Which I've explained three times already. Don't make discussions at multiple locations. That's WP:FORUMSHOPPING and is considered bad. oknazevad (talk) 16:00, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Rule changes
Are the new pace of play rules and the fact that MiLB is being used as a MLB testing ground noteworthy enough to include somewhere in this article? I think it is important, but I will admit my bias. I'm also wondering if it would be beneficial to create a new "Rules" section.Pistongrinder (talk) 15:03, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
 * What's your bias? As it happens, I think it's worth including and should've thought of that myself. I wrote the articles for the Pitch clock and Pace of play. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:48, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Haha. I am a fan of baseball, and MiLB in particular; that's my bias, however slight it may be. All I meant is that I need to temper my enthusiasm on the subject, otherwise I would overrun this and similar Wikipedia pages with what the average person would consider mundane minutia.


 * That being said, I don't mind deferring to you, as you have already written two articles on the subject. I could see making mention of the new rules in either the "Players" or "Umpires" section, or creating a new section as I mentioned earlier. One issue to consider is that most of the baseball rules in MiLB are not exclusive to that league; they apply to multiple leagues. What say ye?Pistongrinder (talk) 15:13, 17 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Your bias is the same as my bias. As long as we're aware of it, we're okay. We just can't write "baseball is the best sport" in our articles. I'm happy to collaborate with you on this since I wasn't sure where in this article the material on pace of play belongs. I'm open to your feedback and that of others, if it belongs in one of those sections or in a new section. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:15, 17 April 2018 (UTC)