Talk:Modern Jive

Discofox/Discoswing or Bugg considered as forms of Modern Jive?
I'm very surprised by the following statement:
 * ...dance styles such as Discofox (found in Germany and Switzerland) and Bugg (found in Sweden) can also be considered to be forms of Modern Jive...

Those dance styles use syncopation and are visually quite distinct from modern jive. I have heard of dancers coming to modern jive and pointing to the similarities due to similar basic moves, but I have not heard yet of modern jive dancers moving to Discofox or Bugg and agreeing with this statement, because of the step patterns.

Any other opinion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.162.142.149 (talk) 12:10, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Men discouraged as followers?
== this is sooooo true lollollollol

I strongly dissagree with the statement "Men are discouraged from dancing the female role"! I suspect the author may perhaps be somewhat homophobic as, as an [experienced] (10+ years) male Jive dancer, I have often danced the follow part (not "woman's" part)... User:ThrogmortonWallopWallop

Hmm... the author has obviously never heard of the Gender Bender category in some Australian Ceroc Competitions where all couples are either man-man or lady-lady.--Dancer42 17:43, 6 January 2006 (UTC)


 * As it happens, I have heard of that category, and I can follow MJ.
 * The reality is that there are far more female leads than male followers, and far more acceptance of female leads in terms of classes and competitions. By way of example, there are plenty of MJ venues where female leaders are permitted to join the class and rotate around as normal, whereas male followers are prohibited from doing so.
 * Thanks for the accusation of homophobia, though. Made me chuckle.
 * -- Unsigned comment


 * Men in the UK (in classes at least) are definitely discouraged from taking the follower role, whereas women leaders are quite common - there are typically at least 1 or 2 women leads in most MJ classes, but almost never a male follow. So I think the statement is reasonable David James Bailey (talk) 13:33, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * But probably hard to find a reference for, so I got rid of it. Martin (talk) 00:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Swing-out
I'm not sure I agree with the statement:

"For example the Lindy Hop Swing Out is similar to a First Move in Modern Jive."

I agree with the sentiment of the statment before it, many dance moves are related to each other, but this specific example is factually questionable. -- Unsigned comment

I'm not sure that the Lindy Hop swing-out is anything at all like a modern jive first move basic; I'm no Lindy Hop expert but a swing-out appears to resemble a modern jive hip-hop rather than a first move

More female dancers
Where on earth in modern jive are there more female dancers than male dancers? In 10+ years I still haven't found that mythical nirvana. I've always been a city boy though. Do tell...


 * Headingley, Leeds, for one. On rare occasions it's got as unbalanced as forty to thirty, but there are nearly always more women present. 91.105.27.108 20:52, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I've been dancing Modern Jive in the UK for nearly 20 years - mainly around the London area. And there are usually more women than men. Same applies for other UK social dance scenes (salsa and Argentine Tango) in my experience.David James Bailey (talk) 13:30, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

relation to ballroom jive

 * The name "Modern Jive" (sometimes abbreviated to "MJ") differentiates what is known as "Jive (dance)" (with associated steps, rhythm/timing and footwork) from this 'modern' counterpart, which keeps the same timing minus the footwork structure, and includes an expanded group of 'moves'.


 * However, modern jive is not jive (dance) per se as jive includes the chasse as a core footwork pattern. For example, either ballroom or swing jive variants (two walks and two triples) see 4 weight changes in six beats as opposed to the modern jive weight change every beat.

So there are factual issues here (ballroom and modern have different timing, ballroom has six weight changes in four beats, not four in six, ballroom jive is not "jive per se", etc). When I went to correct them, though, I wondered: why am I comparing ballroom and modern? They're different dances. Sure, they both share a common history in the shape of Jitterbug, but they were both heavily altered during creation, and both have altered since. They don't share any more in common than modern jive and salsa. I can fake ballroom badly, but that's because I know east coast swing, not because I know modern jive. So, I favoured dropping this stuff and just observing the name similarity. Martin (talk)

Rock footwork comments are wrong
To quote from the article: "Unfortunately, the "rock" footwork is actually more suited to fast music (leaning towards "advanced" dancers) as it reduces the number of weight changes required during any rhythm unit. Thus, the preference for "step" footwork has reduced the "terminal velocity" modern jive can be danced at - because it forces a weight change every beat."

There is still a weight transfer on every beat with rock footwork. If the dancer does not transfer weight fully to one foot each beat, then their weight is split. Weight then needs to then be transferred onto one foot before the other is moved, leaving the dancer less capable to dance to fast music.

Of course, a dancer could also leave their weight on one foot all the time, but then moving the other foot can't be called a step.

Typically, an advanced dancer responds to fast music by taking smaller steps, and using half time footwork as required. There is also no strict rule in Modern Jive that a step must be taken on every beat.

Also, to start the sentence with "Unfortunately" is subjective.

Jazz?
How does this fall within Wikiproject Jazz? I have danced MJ in hundreds of venues and it is rare to hear anything that could be considered jazz. Not even Ceroc, with their fanciful claims for the origins of the dance, claim there is any jazz connection. Tesspub (talk) 22:31, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lindy hop which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 07:29, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lindy Hop which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:44, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

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