Talk:Mold health issues

Policy section
The world is larger than any one country and Wikipedia is supposed to reflect the world not just America. If information is only available about one country it should be listed as representing whichever one country.

Contradiction about allergies?
There is a great deal of confusion arising from a shorthand notion that spores are the vectors of mycotoxins. Spores are not the only carriers of mycotoxins. But a lot of people refer to spores since it is easier to do so; easier to explain.

Furthermore, some people do develop allergic reactions to spores. Perhaps this should be pointed out. Note that the mycotoxins are the real killers, so it is important to differentiate between these and spores.

So the statement:"The numerous spores released by mold do not themselves cause significant harm in humans" is correct. Some people can develop first level sneezing and allergic reactions.

A previous statement, now edited out, said: "Some molds are particularly serious in this respect, because their spores are important causes of allergies (they are allergens); also, the spores of some fungi like Stachybotrys release potent toxins into the lungs when inhaled; Stachybotrys spores can cause very severe symptoms and lung lesions in children." It is the mycotoxins, not the spores.

There are thousands of species of molds, most of them harmless. Only about 14 species, many cultured unwittingly in poorly ventilated buildings after the 1970s when energy efficiency concerns led to airtight residential construction. This construction upgrade did not generally make provision for mechanical ventilation such as air to air heat exchanger ventilation which prevents too much loss of heat while bringing in fresh air and exhausting stale air. Air conditioning helps the situation by lowering the humidity levels in a home, but does not actively exchange and clear out the air in the home. Mold loves still, humid air. Daily living generates a lot of moisture from cooking, showering, laundry and dish-washing. Over time mold species that thrive in indoor conditions free from the usual outdoor stresses of UV, rain, wind, etc. began to have enough extra energy to evolve toxic coatings for their spores, to provide protection for them from being consumed by microbes, insects etc. at the near-microscopic level. Mold spores are about one micron in diameter. Only HEPA filters are fine enough to screen them out. Most mold remediation focuses on repairing water damaged construction materials after a leak or flood has occurred. This is only the beginning, however, if one needs to remove toxic mold spores from a living space. Toxic spores build up over time and accumulate in a building, or a car. They are tiny and hard. They ride on dust motes. Most forms of cleaning, even HEPA vacuuming will not remove them all. They especially accumulate in textured materials such as paper and textiles. Books, rugs and upholstery are the worst offenders. Clothing, bedding, and towels can be machine washed and dried, so they can be kept free of spores. There is an effective method to remove spores from a living space using fans. The spores cannot resist wind. Even a home which has never had a leak or any living mold growing in it can be full of tracked-in toxic mold spores because most homes and many businesses are full of them. The best way to remediate toxic mold spores in a home is to remove anything with texture from one room at a time and place an outdoor air intake fan from a clean dry outdoor area, and an outflow air fan, while placing agitating fans around the room to stir up the air and blow dust off all surfaces so it can be blown outdoors. After 4 days and nights of this blowing the room with be clear of dust and spores. Be sure not to bring contaminated rugs, books, or upholstery back into the room. It is the mycotoxins coating the spores, not the spores themselves, and not the mold plant you can see. These mycotoxins are neurotoxic and in some people stimulate a whole body inflammation response resulting in chronic fatigue. 2602:306:80A3:A180:95F8:3FD3:B7:5441 (talk) 06:09, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Q: what size are spores compared to pollens?

Q: Does mold cause brain damage? I get mixed results when I search at Google.

Is it an accident that the See Also section is fashioned into a pyramid? -- Bob Holness —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.70.152.142 (talk) 19:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Mold toxins in food
Could be more about this. Are carcinogenic, perhaps very carcinogenic. According to an article written by a medical professor in the respectable online magazine Spiked - do not have exact reference to hand - food items with moldy parts will also have mold toxins in its apparantly healthy part, so cutting the moldy bit off does not work, the whole thing should be discarded. Dangerous carcinogenic peanut molds are well known, but there are may others as well. On the other hand, some molds may be safe, such as I presume those used in blue cheese.

And the article is very US-centric. So many Americans cannot belive that there is a world beyond the US. 78.147.28.51 (talk) 11:22, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Citation added
Added citations 3 and 4 to the sentence about “Immunocompromised individuals exposed to high levels of mold, or individuals with chronic exposure may become infected.” It wasn’t changed, but the two citations were added in support of the claims made by the sentence.

The information that I have found to support this claim states that there is evidence of an increased risk of infection by molds (specifically fusarium) in immunocompromised individuals. It compares the health effects of fusarium on immunocompetent hosts to that of immunocompromised individuals. The second source describes the importance of immunity in the pathogenesis of fusariosis and offers supporting evidence through in vitro and in vivo experimental studies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mgrant3418 (talk • contribs) 07:58, 17 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, great edit. Wikipedia needs more people who are willing to add citations to existing content.  Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 08:59, 17 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I added a couple required citations for the 2005 recall of Diamond Pet Foods due to Alfatoxin.
 * Here are many more articles organized by topic and date (ascending) which may satisfy many of the references still required, but I lack the specific subject matter expertise to make this determination.
 * General / Indoor Air Quality / Sick Building Syndrome
 * http://www.epa.gov/mold/index.html
 * http://www.cdc.gov/mold/stachy.htm
 * http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pdfs/sick_building_factsheet.pdf
 * http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10805208
 * http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10473220050129419
 * http://www.nchh.org/portals/0/contents/article0277.pdf
 * http://www.apsnet.org/publications/apsnetfeatures/Pages/Stachybotrys.aspx
 * http://cmr.asm.org/content/16/1/144.full / http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC145304/
 * Mycotoxins
 * http://cmr.asm.org/content/16/3/497.full / http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC164220/
 * — PaulMEdwards (talk) 07:09, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Changes made
Changed the sentence "Certain molds excrete toxic compounds called mycotoxins, usually only under specific environmental conditions.” to “Molds excrete toxic compounds called mycotoxins, secondary metabolites produced by fungi under certain environmental conditions. These environmental conditions affect the production of mycotoxins at the transcription level. Temperature, water activity and pH, strongly influence mycotoxin biosynthesis by increasing the level of transcription within the fungal spore. It has also been found that low levels of fungicides can boost mycotoxin synthesis.”This is an important issue because mycotoxins can be harmful to human health if they are present in large enough quantities. The sentence that was changed was vague and did not explain which factors were important for the biosynthesis of mycotoxins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mgrant3418 (talk • contribs) 02:20, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Added: "Extensive flooding and water damage can support huge numbers of mold growth. Following hurricanes, homes with greater flood damage, especially those with more than 3 feet of indoor flooding, demonstrated higher levels of mold growth compared with homes with little or no flooding.[12] The aftermath of a hurricane is the worst case scenario, but the concept of water damage supporting widespread mold growth." This elaborates on the point made about humid environments supporting mold growth. Mgrant3418 (talk) 07:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Added: “Mycotoxins contaminate grains and other food products across the globe and can significantly impact human health. They can be found growing on grains before harvest and in storage. When ingested, inhaled, or absorbed through skin, mycotoxins may reduce appetite and general performance, and cause sickness or death in some cases.” This adds to the food section of the page. It talks about molds found on meat and poultry and gives an example of aflatoxin on corn and peanuts. I felt that the section could benefit from the addition of something regarding grains. Mgrant3418 (talk) 07:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Arthur Conan Doyle

 * Arthur Conan Doyle believed that harmful molds existed because of the foods or were deliberately placed by the ancient Pharaohs to protect their tombs from robbers as an explanation to the Curse of the pharaohs stories after the mysterious deaths following the discovery of the Tomb of Tutankhamun back in 1922, which was recently proved to be true.

This section makes no sense the way it is written, nor is it sourced in any way. Is it trying to say molds were created by ancient pharaohs? Molds were deliberately allowed to form in tombs?173.26.33.153 (talk)


 * Doyle said all kinds of crazy things about the pharaohs. There's some coverage in Curse of the pharaohs but I don't think it belongs here.  Removed.  Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 03:20, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

"some are even beneficial eg penicillin"
This unsourced, unqualified statement, with no dosage information attached, has no place in a medically related article. The symptoms of penicillin over-dose include "confusion, behavior changes, a severe skin rash, urinating less than usual, or seizure (black-out or convulsions)". 219.89.34.238 (talk) 21:11, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Mold exposure in home related to depression in large European study
Shenassa ED, Daskalakis C, Liebhaber A, Braubach M, Brown M.

Dampness and mold in the home and depression: an examination of mold-related illness and perceived control of one's home as possible depression pathways.

Am J Public Health. 2007 Oct;97(10):1893-9. Epub 2007 Aug 29.

Source

Division of Epidemiology, Department of Community Health, Brown School of Medicine, Providence, RI 02912, USA. Edmond_Shenassa@Brown.edu

Abstract

OBJECTIVES:

We evaluated a previously reported association between residence in a damp and moldy dwelling and the risk of depression and investigated whether depression was mediated by perception of control over one's home or mold-related physical illness.

METHODS:

We used survey data from 8 European cities. A dampness and mold score was created from resident- and inspector-reported data. Depression was assessed using a validated index of depressive symptoms.

RESULTS:

Dampness or mold in the home was associated with depression (odds ratio [OR]=1.39, 1.44, and 1.34, for minimal, moderate, and extensive exposure, respectively, compared with no exposure). This association became attenuated when perception of control (OR=1.34, 1.40, and 1.24; global P=.069) or a physical health index (OR = 1.32, 1.37, and 1.15; global P= .104) was included in the model. The mediation effects of perception of control over one's home and by physical health appeared to be additive.

CONCLUSIONS:

Dampness and mold were associated with depression, independent of individual and housing characteristics. This association was independently mediated by perception of control over one's home and by physical health.

Free PMC Article http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1994167/ doi: 10.2105/AJPH.2006.093773

neurotoxic effects
http://www.ei-resource.org/expert-columns/dr.-lisa-nagys-column/neurological-and-immunological-problems-associated-with-mold-and-mycotoxin-exposure/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ocdnctx (talk • contribs) 23:39, 29 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Rather than scientific journal or anything, it appears to be a site just for spreading / increasing people's consciousness of environmental illness. This doesn't seem to be peer reviewed or grounded in the rest of scientific literature.  Is there a source that is?  98.119.149.245 (talk) 15:34, 12 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Does not meet the expectations of a reputable source for an article on a biomedical topic. Medmyco (talk) 16:52, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Under "Mycotoxin Toxicity" is the following sentence: "Extreme exposure to very high levels of mycotoxins can lead to neurological problems and, in some cases, death; fortunately, such exposures rarely to never occur in normal exposure scenarios, even in residences with serious mold problems.[46] Prolonged exposure, such as daily workplace exposure, can be particularly harmful.[47]"


 * This is a problematic statement. The WHO's 2009 statement and subsequent studies on immune activation in susceptible individuals suggest such exposures DO occur in normal exposure scenarios. However, if we're strictly talking about a toxicity response in non-susceptible individuals, this might be true. But please note the references are an old 2003 review and the CDC, whose current stance is at odds with much of the past 15 years of studies. DizzilyDizzily (talk) 11:26, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

review of inhalational health effects of mold  Free PMC Article
Weinhold B.

A spreading concern: inhalational health effects of mold.

Environ Health Perspect. 2007 Jun;115(6):A300-5.

Free PMC Article — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ocdnctx (talk • contribs) 18:21, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Poor use of "since"
In section Food, last para, the sentence: This suggests that since mycotoxins are difficult to digest by human microbes due to better degradation by rumen microbes as compared to mono-gastric animals like humans seems to lack a certain something or other so I moved the sentence to this talk point. I cannot find an action following from the conditional "since". It appears that the editor had a thought but failed to think it through. It also looks like the editor wanted to be concise: splitting the statement over two sentences would be syntactically and grammatically better. But the para works quite well without this sentence, so we may as well keep it out. 124.148.126.68 (talk) 14:18, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
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Sickle cell disease
This article currently claims that mold increases the risk of sickle cell anemia in children. That is obviously wrong; sickle-cell is a recessive genetic disease, and therefore it is obviously not caused by mold! 63.231.141.132 (talk) 06:06, 28 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Good catch. The source discusses adverse outcomes for chronic conditions, and does not imply that sickle-cell disease is caused by mold. (If it did imply that, it almost certainly wouldn't be a WP:RS). It was confusingly explained in the article, and I don't think it's particularly helpful to list all of the conditions mentioned by the study, especially since the study doesn't really focus on mold in particular. I have removed that line completely. Grayfell (talk) 06:12, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Mold concern overblown?
This Daily Beast article claims that much of the popular concern surrounding “toxic mold” is actually overblown, that mold toxicity is very rare, and that certain people (such as a Dr. Richie Shoemaker) have been amplifying claims about toxic mold and its effects in order to turn a profit on “cures”. I think the article should include this contrary perspective too. 63.231.141.132 (talk) 06:14, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Sure, but peer-reviewed research by Tuuminen (2018, 2019, 2020), Valtonen (2017), Harding et al (2019), and Morris et al (2016) back up Shoemaker's own peer-reviewed research. As for the rarity, the two peer-reviewed papers on the prevalence of CIRS were Bredesen (2016) and McMahon (2017) and suggested this wasn't rare: McMahon suggests >7% of the US population. Moreover, the WHO made a clear statement in 2009 about the chronic inflammatory effects of Mold and activation of the immune system--so clear it's stated in the abstract along with the accepted respiratory and dermatological effects. It should be acknowledged that BOTH sides here have plenty of financial incentive. As Rehmeyer (2017) and many others have noted, many corporate interests also don't want for severe mold illnesses to be well-accepted either. Every source I list here except for Rehmeyer, who is a science writer anyway, is peer reviewed. And the post-hurricane study cited in the Daily Beast looked at allergic effects, whereas you would need a post-hurricane study that specifically looked at innate system immune stimulation (ISIS). DizzilyDizzily (talk) 07:36, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

You may also want to read this paper by one of researchers in this area to get an idea of other side of the debate concerning conflicts of interest: A Critique of the ACOEM Statement on Mold: Undisclosed Conflicts of Interest in the Creation of an “Evidence-Based” Statement by James Craner (2008) in the International Journal of Occupational and Environmental Health. DizzilyDizzily (talk) 01:25, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

I live with Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome and the current research suggests anyone of a particular HLA genotype is susceptible to it. As the contents of this Wikipedia page detail, most criticism of the viability of mould toxicity comes from studies with great conflict of interest that would themselves be accepted as invalid were there any push from the medical community. While Shoemaker does (in my opinion) flagrantly monetize his time, this a symptom of the broken American healthcare system more than a criticism of his research, which - although other doctors have come along and expanded on it - still forms much of the cornerstone for sick building-related discourse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:3E80:1E00:C77:77F0:7A89:CC95 (talk) 14:50, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Article improvements needed
This article is quite misleading and credulous of the pseudoscientific concerns about "toxic mold" in buildings. For example, it has a lengthy litigation section that uses legal sources, not scientific ones. However, there are legitimate concerns about asthma and allergies caused by mold, as well as food contamination by Aflatoxins. I support making this article entirely science-based and moving info about the pseudoscience to its own page. ScienceFlyer (talk) 20:13, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

There are two different points here: pseudoscience is the first; litigation is the second. Regarding pseudoscience, if you've read the section on innate immune activation, Craner's concerns are being validated. Citing a single review as evidence this is all pseudoscience by authors on one side of the debate (who conspicuously managed to avoid referencing 9/10ths of the literature) while ignoring the other side does not make it so. Other reviews from the same time period find otherwise. And as per an NYT article from October 4, 2022 on this very point: "It’s an open question in academic research as to whether there is a relationship between mold exposure and neurological damage."

On the second point, litigation does deserve its place somewhere on this page. if individuals are being neurologically injured in sick buildings from the associated dampness microbiota causing immune dysfunction, or if mould is causing exacerbation of asthmas (which can be life-threatening), then litigation would seem a very relevant topic. DizzilyDizzily (talk) 01:48, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Industrial Hygiene and Ergonomics- Graduate Student Projects
— Assignment last updated by UCIHGrad18 (talk) 19:55, 24 February 2023 (UTC)