Talk:Monmouth Rebellion

Pitched Battle
From the page:
 * The battle of Sedgemoor is often referred to as the last battle fought on English soil, but this is incorrect: the Battle of Preston in Lancashire was fought on 14 November 1715, during the First Jacobite Rebellion, and the Second Jacobite Rebellion saw a minor engagement at Clifton Moor near Penrith in Cumbria on 18 December 1745.

It was not the last engagement fought on English soil but did either of the other two count as pitched battles? If not then if Sedgemoor was a pitched battle, it was the last pitched battle fought on English soil.

See: -- 217.169.14.140 11:20, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * wiktionary battle: Pitched battle = one in which the armies are previously drawn up in form, with a regular disposition of the forces.
 * First English Civil War where a distinction is made between manoeuvre-battle and pitched-battle in text from the 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica.
 * Free Dictionary: pitched battles

Also, the page for the Battle of Sedgemoor states that it was the last pitched battle, whereas this page disagrees. duklai 20:47, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Dissolving Parliament
Perhaps this is some British term that I am unfamiliar with, but dissolving parliament sounds rather intense.


 * Charles outmanoeuvred his opponents and dissolved Parliament for the final time.

The above quote, from the article, makes it sound as though Parliament was gotten rid of. However, this obviously cannot be true. Would someone please explain this? Atinoda 22:29, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


 * See dissolution of Parliament. -- ALoan (Talk) 23:30, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

This is a very common term used in English History, and indeed today. The Monarch in the UK has the power to dissolve Parliament. These days that means the term of the Parliament has ended and a new Election is required. Recent 'Constitutional' (The UK in fact has no Constitution, as such, but a 'statute book' of royal decrees) protocol dictates that the Prime Minister requests that the Monarch dissolve Parliament. In the days of Charles the second this was different, although his Father of course lost his head by going against Parliament. Trotboy 23:38, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

(il)legitimacy
Did the Duke of Monmouth ever claim that his parents had been secretly married, or did he attempt to gain the thrown despite his illigetimacy? (There would of course have been precedent for a bastard king.) --Jfruh (talk) 17:49, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Does the biography section of James Scott, 1st Duke of Monmouth explain the claims and uncertainty relating to his parenthood?&mdash; Rod talk 19:11, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, actually, my curiosity was piqued by the line in the Lucy Walter article, "There is little evidence to support the story that she was the first wife of Charles II..." There is no mention of where this "story" comes from, but obviously the Duke of Monmouth would be a logical person to spread it. I was just curious if he even made a pro forma claim of being legitimate in his bid for the throne -- if he felt a need to assert a secret marriage between his parents even if neither he nor anyone else really believed it -- or if he and/or his supporters thought it possible he could claim the throne while acknowledging his illegitimacy. --Jfruh (talk) 20:41, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Pitchfork Rebellion
Er...just to say that the Monmouth Rebellion is not known as "The Pitchfork Rebellion" by any known named author and that, inter alia, the rebels were not armed with pitchforks but guns, most of them having militiary experience in these matters. Colin4C (talk) 13:41, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm - I'm not expert enough to argue but you are arguing that all of the web sites & other resources below are wrong:
 * Somerset Gateway
 * Keynsham History
 * Campaigns In History - Sedgemoor 1685 - The Pitchfork Rebellion
 * Google timeline
 * Visit Somerset
 * & I'm sure there are others.&mdash; Rod talk 13:54, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Web sites often repeat misleading things that they have seen in the wikipedia. All the stuff up there is promotional guff from local authority tourist boards. Who are the named authors who call it "The Pitchfork Rebellion"? What books did they write? Colin4C (talk) 14:00, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * You could be right. A well referenced paper from the Battlefields trust cites Anon, The Pitchfork Rebellion: The Road to Sedgemoor, 1985. The Illustrated London News does appear to have used the phrase here, along with an edition of Punch. It also appears in Rebelling: Webster's Quotations, Facts and Phrases but the nearest I can find to a serious historian using the title is in Bath: a new history (1996) By Graham Davis, Penny Bonsall.&mdash; Rod talk 14:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The Pitchfork thing seems to partake of the nature of an inaccurate tabloid sound-bite for the media age. A few of the rebels may have been yokels bearing pitchforks, but, from what I have read, a lot of them were old soldiers who fought in the English Civil Wars, and most had whatever old guns they had got stored and that, even though they lost, gave a fairly creditable militiary performance at the Battle of Sedgemoor. Colin4C (talk) 18:31, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Wrong Things.
It says at the beginning that The Monmouth Rebellion of 1685, was an attempt to overthrow James II, who had become King of England, King of Scots and King of Ireland at the death of his elder brother Charles II on 6 February 1685. It says That Charles II was his brother and became king at his death. Then later on down it says that Charles II was his Father. Also it says that Charles was a Roman Catholic, then it says further down that he was a protestent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.41.147 (talk) 19:56, 13 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the explanation of your comment. I would suggest issues about whether James II became king should be discussed at James II of England where it is clearly stated & supported by several references. The way I read it is that Charles II of England was the brother of James II & the father of James Scott, 1st Duke of Monmouth. I also read it as saying James II was Catholic and that Monmouth was protestant. If you don't read it that way it may mean that the text needs to be clarified - could you say exactly where you think the inaccuracies are?&mdash; Rod talk 20:12, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Dorset WikiProject assessments
I've rated this article as only being of 'Low' importance to the Dorset WikiProject, as the Rebellion was more associated with Somerset (and that WikiProject rates it as 'Mid'); however I can see a rationale for also rating it as 'Mid', as Monmouth's plight seems to intertwine in the history of much of west Dorset in particular. Comments welcome... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:16, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Picture
Is there really not a better picture than that for the infobox? ---Brigade Piron (talk) 14:18, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It may help if you give more of an explanation as to why you find it unsatisfactory. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 14:39, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Please don't take this the wrong way. There's certainly nothing wrong with the picture or its relevence. I simply question whether a more interesting one could not be found, especially considering that it is the first bit of the article the casual observer sees. I would compare it with the pictures in the boxes of Napoleonic War or War of the Austrian Succession. Could the painting of Monmouth below or one of the others substitute like this File:James Scott, Duke of Monmouth and Buccleuch by Jan van Wyck.jpg ? ---Brigade Piron (talk) 15:46, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I've switched the pictures around - is that better?&mdash; Rod talk 17:01, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks Rod, much more engaging! ---Brigade Piron (talk) 17:22, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is rather more lively, and gives an impression of battle, nobility and an element of darkness, which is apt. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 17:52, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Although it may be a better picture, having looked at James Scott, 1st Duke of Monmouth the caption for this picture says "James Scott commanding the English against the Dutch in 1672, Jan Wyck" which suggests it is inappropriate to use to represent the Battle of Sedgemoor in this campaign.&mdash; Rod talk 21:26, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I have replaced it as I think it is inappropriate to use an image of the Anglo-Dutch war to represent Sedgemoor.&mdash; Rod talk 17:22, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

The West Country Challenge
Would you like to win up to £250 in Amazon vouchers for participating in The West Country Challenge?

The The West Country Challenge will take place from 8 to 28 August 2016. The idea is to create and improve articles about Bristol, Somerset, Devon, Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly, Dorset, Wiltshire and Gloucestershire, like this one.

The format will be based on Wales's successful Awaken the Dragon which saw over 1000 article improvements and creations and 65 GAs/FAs. As with the Dragon contest, the focus is more on improving core articles and breathing new life into those older stale articles and stubs which might otherwise not get edited in years. All contributions, including new articles, are welcome though.

Work on any of the items at: or other articles relating to the area.
 * Core articles
 * Missing article hotlist
 * Missing photograph hotlist

There will be sub contests focusing on particular areas:
 * Bristol (Day 1-3)
 * Cornwall and Scilly (Day 4-6)
 * Devon (Day 7-9)
 * Dorset (Day 10-12)
 * Gloucestershire (Day 13-15)
 * Somerset (Day 16-18)
 * Wiltshire (Day 19-21)

To sign up or get more information visit the contest pages at WikiProject England/The West Country Challenge.&mdash; Rod talk 16:12, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

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Info Box - commanders and leaders.
Should John Churchill and Henry Fitzroy not be listed under their titles at the time of the rebellion? Fitzroy was Duke of Grafton and Churchill was Lord Churchill of Sandridge and Eyemouth. Dunarc (talk) 13:46, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Literary references
I have just read a short story by Thomas Hardy (would such a text be called thus?), "The Duke's Reappearance - A Family Tradition", which is published in his Collected Works, Subsection "A Changed Man and other Tales". It clearly deals with the events shortly before the end of the battle and Monmouth's beheading in the Tower, but I am too unfamiliar with the historical facts and the details of the story to write about it all here. However, I find the story noteworthy and worth referring to here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Heming1Way (talk • contribs) 23:14, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

A story called Swordsmen Three! was published in The Union Jack in 1904, as well. It follows the son of a lord loyal to Monmoth and his experiences in the rebellion, including the battle of sedgemoor. I haven't finished reading it yet but going on one of the illustrations it appears in this version of the tale Monmoth escapes Britain.. 82.153.230.138 (talk) 14:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)