Talk:Mother Night/Archive 1

Interviews and Lord Haw Haw
"Though Kurt Vonnegut has said in interviews he doesn't know who John W Campbell is." (Howard, surely?)
 * Which interviews?

"As well, a clear inspiration for the novel was the real-life story of American-born Nazi radio propagandist William Joyce, better known as Lord Haw Haw."
 * Clear? To whom?  He was in fact American-born, but the story of William Joyce is vastly different from that of Howard W. Campbell Jr.  Details changed for literary sake?  Perhaps, but it seems a stretch.  That's not to say it's not true though, sources?

--Easter Monkey 17:34, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Sources don't exist for Hee Haw because the use of planted propagandists as allied (or coalition) spies (Tariq Aziz, anyone?) is an ongoing ploy.

"Mother Night"
I noticed that "Mother Night" does not necessarily occur in the English translation. Is there a quotation in the book (IIRC, I only read this in German translation).

Here a some translations from www.gutenberg.org

The quotation is taken from the scene where Faust and Mephistopheles first talk. Mephistopheles explains (in somewhat veiled form) to Faust what/who he is.

Original
Bescheidne Wahrheit sprech ich dir. Wenn sich der Mensch, die kleine Narrenwelt, Gewöhnlich für ein Ganzes hält - Ich bin ein Teil des Teils, der anfangs alles war, Ein Teil der Finsternis, die sich das Licht gebar, Das stolze Licht, das nun der Mutter Nacht Den alten Rang, den Raum ihr streitig macht, Und doch gelingt's ihm nicht, da es, so viel es strebt, Verhaftet an den Körpern klebt.

Bayard Taylor translation
The modest truth I speak to thee. If Man, that microcosmic fool, can see Himself a whole so frequently, Part of the Part am I, once All, in primal Night,— Part of the Darkness which brought forth the Light, The haughty Light, which now disputes the space, And claims of Mother Night her ancient place. And yet, the struggle fails; since Light, howe'er it weaves, Still, fettered, unto bodies cleaves:

Charles T. Brooks translation
I speak the modest truth to thee. A world of folly in one little soul, _Man_ loves to think himself a whole; Part of the part am I, which once was all, the Gloom That brought forth Light itself from out her mighty womb, The upstart proud, that now with mother Night Disputes her ancient rank and space and right, Yet never shall prevail, since, do whate'er he will, He cleaves, a slave, to bodies still;

Translation with translator not mentioned
The modest truth I speak to thee. Though folly's microcosm, man, it seems, Himself to be a perfect whole esteems: Part of the part am I, which at the first was all, A part of darkness, which gave birth to light, Proud light, who now his mother would enthrall, Contesting space and ancient rank with night. Yet he succeedeth not, for struggle as he will, To forms material he adhereth still; ChKa 00:32, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It is, in fact explictly stated that it is from Faust. From the book's 'Editor's Note' (from the fictional editor)

“The title of the book is Campbell's. It is taken from a speech by Mephistopheles in Goethe's Faust. As translated by Carlyle F. MacIntyre (New Directions, 1941), the speech is this:

I am a part of the part that at first was all, part of the darkness that gave birth to light, that supercilious light which now disputes with Mother Night her ancient rank and space, and yet can not succeed; no matter how it struggles, it sticks to matter and can't get free. Light flows from substance, makes it beautiful; solid can check its path, so I hope it won't be long till light and the world's stuff are destroyed together.”

Cheesechimp 12:36, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mother Night.jpg
Image:Mother Night.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:MotherNight(Vonnegut).jpg
Image:MotherNight(Vonnegut).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:10, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Huh?
The article says, "Unbeknownst to the Nazis, all of the idiosyncrasies of Campbell's speeches – deliberate pauses, coughing, etc. – are part of the coded information he is passing to the American Office of Strategic Services. Campbell never discovers, nor is he ever told, the information that he is sending." If Campbell never discovers it, and the Nazis don't know about it, then who is giving Campbell the coded information he's sending? 71.191.156.149 (talk) 20:40, 1 January 2015 (UTC)