Talk:Mount Saint Mary

Name
Doesn't this name clearly fall under Naming conventions (use English) so local name should be used (as it was untill the recent move by User:Eleassar)? Google doesn't find anything for "Mount Saint Mary" related to this hill. And same goes for other similar moves. --Sporti (talk) 09:55, 1 July 2015 (UTC)


 * This should be self-evident... — Yerpo Eh? 12:20, 1 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Permit a rather long comment here. 1) Because gora is a generic element, usual practice is to translate that part of a name (cf. Xxx jezero → Lake Xxx, Xxx grad → Xxx Castle, etc.). 2) Šmarna is a (derived) specific element. When specific elements are transparent derivations, they are typically reduced to base form if proper nouns (e.g., Blejsko jezero → Lake Bled, Ljubljanski grad → Ljubljana Castle, etc.) and typically translated if common nouns (e.g., Zmajski most → Dragon Bridge, Črno jezero → Black Lake, etc.). 3) If a derived specific element is less transparent, one may nonetheless often find obvious reductions to base form for proper nouns (e.g., Radensko polje → Račna Karst Field, Srjanski grič → Sredna Vas Hill), but this is not always the case; 4) If a derived specific element is completely obscure (e.g., Kucja dolina → Kucja Valley) there is no choice but to leave the derived specific element in adjective form. "Mount Saint Mary" is certainly what Smarna gora means and is also a natural name in English. However, it's a question of community consensus as to what should be used as the article title. Another option is "Mount Šmarna" (based on non-transparency of Šmarna). Leaving it at "Šmarna gora" is structurally equivalent to having Lake Bled at "Blejsko jezero" (although this is negated by common name / established use). Using "Mount Šmarna Gora" would be a monstrosity, structurally equivalent to "Ljubljanski Grad Castle" or "Lake Blejsko Jezero." Common name / established use is also a principle of limited utility for places that are not world-class destinations (like Lake Bled); for example, it is obvious that Bačko jezero is "Lake Bač" and that Štritovsko jezero is "Lake Štrit" but these cannot be supported by reference to published English sources, only by common sense and analogy. Doremo (talk) 13:45, 1 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Ironically, the "monstrous" version is the only one apart from the original that is actually used in RS . But I think "Mount Šmarna" could also be an acceptable compromise. — Yerpo Eh? 14:23, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

This name is completely wrong and shoud not be translated. Šmarna gora originates from the name of the village under the hill, which is called Šmartno, which evolved from Šent Martin - Saint Martin. So the only possible translation would be Saint Martin's hill. Delete this entire post before it creats wrong impressions. I live in the next village and went to school to Šmartno, so you can consider this a local's information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.77.217.217 (talk) 15:09, 18 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The anonymous comment above by "a local" is incorrect. The adjective šmaren is derived from šent marijin 'of Saint Mary' (Snoj, 2009, Etimološki slovar slovenskih zemljepisnih imen) and has nothing to do with Saint Martin. Doremo (talk) 15:22, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Slovenian geographical names should not all be translated into English. If Mount Saint Mary is correct than Triglav, Jalovec and others should be translated also. Example of other nation articles is here: Góra Świętej Anny (hill), Leopoldsberg. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grabyton (talk • contribs) 14:42, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Please see Lake Bled, Vipava Valley, and Gulf of Piran for common examples of Slovenian geographical names in English. Doremo (talk) 16:29, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Unreasonable interpretation. This only shows that gora should be translated to English, not Šmarna. Please explain why mountains in other countries are not translated the same as you stated.--Grabyton (talk) 17:28, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

We don't translate Mont Blanc for starters, many -bergs etc. Messlo (talk) 21:39, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * First, the subject of this article is not Mont Blanc or a -berg. Second, we do translate Mount Saint Peter, along with a host of other names. Doremo (talk) 03:06, 19 October 2020 (UTC)