Talk:Munchkin

Untitled

 * Perhaps the disambiguation page should show up when entering Munchkin in search... --84.178.110.162 18:44, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * No, because usages of the word all tend to stem from this meaning.--The_stuart 20:00, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

What about munchkin cats? There ought to be a link at least to them!
 * Look up top, there's a link to Munchkin (disambiguation) which gives a link to Munchkin (cat). --woggly 09:01, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

BTW MUNICH is german city :) lol
 * Yes, and Bavaria is in Germany. --woggly 12:56, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Munchkin Country?
I have never read the books, but the film refers to Munchkin LAND rather than Munchkin COUNTRY. Does the intro to this article therefore need altering? Kingbumpkin (talk) 12:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The books are exactly the opposite in that respct, so no. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 18:30, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Munchkin suicide...
I've seen two versions of the scene in question. The first is a VHS tape that was the original theatrical version. Whether or not there is an actual person or something else in the background isn't clear, but is is definitely hanging, and definitely not a bird. MGM overlaid an image of a bird over the background for the re-release on DVD years later, possibly as a response to the bad publicity caused by the so-called "conspiracy". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.169.154.124 (talk) 16:48, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Living as of 1989
I undid a few revisions to put back Raabe and Slover in the list. The reviewers probably did not realize this list is for those living "as of 1989" rather than "now". -- Saveur (talk) 05:02, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * According to the paragraph above the first chart, there were 33 actors who played munchkins still alive when the book was written. The "as of 1989" chart needs some work.Juve2000 (talk) 18:28, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I now wonder if the "as of 1989" section needs to be there at all. Maybe a single, complete list, with dates of birth/death when known, comments "still alive" when applicable, and a introduction sentence "X of them still alive as of (Year)" would be enough. -- Saveur (talk) 00:21, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Living as of 1989?
What's the point of having a table of Munchkins who were living as of 1989? I know that's the 50th anniversary year of the movie but it still seems odd to have this arbitrary table. At this point, there are only two living Munchkins left. Why not keep that table and merge the "living as of 1989" into the "Deceased" table? --SamuelTaylorColeridge (talk) 15:18, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

The Munchkins whose death and birth dates are N/A
How do we know if they are living or not? Granted it is confirmed that the Lollipop Guild guy is the last one living (Must be great being a member of that then) but what do we know about the ones who are N/A? As well as the other kid stars from it. Wgolf (talk) 18:23, 18 February 2014 (UTC)


 * It is a complex situation, I did a search of a bunch of the ones where I could find no reliable source confirming their death rather than just leaving it blank I placed Not available. Most likely anyone born before 1900 is no longer living and in some cases some of the actors had no SSN to their name. As for the child actresses it is claimed that the Lollipop Guild guy is the last one living but then I found a source confirming still alive child stars so that further complexes things. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:47, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

That's true-I always have to make a comment whenever I see that scene that he is still alive. (It will be so odd when he is gone as I can no longer say that!) But yeah its like how I thought that every actor and actress that were in a silent film had died by the mid 2000's, when in fact the last one only died a few years ago.Wgolf (talk) 19:54, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh wow, didn't know that =o. Anyways if you do find reliable sources with the deaths of the munchkin actors feel free to add them. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 20:07, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

A surprising number of the actors seemed to have lived into their late 80s and 90s. Original research obviously has no place here, but they don't seem typical of US mortality rates.Thomas Peardew (talk) 16:11, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Last surviving Munchkin v. last 'Dwarf' Munchkin
I made an edit specifying that Jarry Maren was the last known surviving 'dwarf' munchkin actor. The edit was quickly reverted. However, my edit was consistent with Maren's wiki article. which states: "Jerry Maren, is an American actor and the only confirmed surviving dwarf munchkin from the 1939 film The Wizard of Oz, in which he portrayed a member of the Lollipop Guild. He became the last surviving dwarf Munchkin cast member (there is one confirmed living Munchkin actress who is not a dwarf) following the death of Ruth Duccini on January 16, 2014"

My understanding is that the Munchkins were played by both dwarf and non-dwarf child actors/actresses. Did not Priscilla Ann Montgomery Clark play a Munchkin? Thanks in advance for any explanation provided. AJC3fromS2K (talk) 07:09, 24 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The answer is, we don't know. Sources are saying that she is one of the last surviving "kid munchkins" however the sources are very hard to come by as it is it is very hard to find things such as birth/death records for these actors and actresses. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:04, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Dubious entries
I have removed Eleanor Keaton as there is no mention of her being a munchkin or even being in the film from her obituary. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:39, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

I have also removed Jimmy Rosen, the only source is Imdb in which in this case is user edited. No other sources could be found that show that a person named "Jimmy Rosen" was in the film. - Knowledgekid87 (talk)

Patsy May was removed as the only sources tied to her role in the film were Facebook (non official), and Find A Grave. We need WP:RS to back up the role. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:29, 25 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Were you the user who removed Lillian Porter, and why? https://www.historyforsale.com/lillian-porter-inscribed-photograph-signed/dc22717 --Jkaharper (talk) 18:06, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


 * No per (The state of the article before I started editing it). I had no idea Lillian Porter was present and she appears to be sourced via Cox, so go ahead and add her, nice find! =) - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:27, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
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Moved from "Concept" section
I have removed the following from the article but chose to keep it here for review purposes:


 * Baum apparently did not mean that only Munchkins are short in stature (as depicted in the iconic 1939 film), but that this is the norm for all of the adult humans of Oz. In a scene later in the book, the Guardian of the Gates, the first inhabitant of the Emerald City met by Dorothy and apparently representative of its citizens, is "a little man about the same size as the Munchkins." Still later, the Quadlings of the southern land are described as "short and fat."


 * In W. W. Denslow's illustrations for The Wonderful Wizard (approved by Baum), the only Oz humans depicted as remarkably taller than Dorothy are the Soldier with the Green Whiskers and Glinda.


 * Baum rarely refers to Ozites as small of stature in the Oz books that follow. (One notable exception is the Munchkin wrestler that Zeb challenges in Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz).


 * Notable Munchkins named in the Oz books include Boq, Fyter, Jinjur, Nimmie Amee, Ojo the Lucky, and Unc Nunkie.

All of this appears to be original research but may have some grains of truth to it that just need to be sourced. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:36, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Munchkin notes
The following can possibly be used for separate stand alone articles on the subjects...


 * Casper "Colonel" Balsam - Casper was mentioned as living in Gibsonton, Florida in newspapers from the 1950s. The exact year of death remains unknown.
 * Elizabeth Coulter - She was last mentioned in 1953.
 * Freda Betsky - She was last mentioned on April 14, 1975, date of death unknown.
 * Henry Boers - While the date of death is unknown, he is last mentioned on September 10, 1961 in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

More to come... - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:49, 12 June 2018 (UTC)


 * References #16, 20, 41, 43, 51, 64, 65, 92, 93, 96, 97 & 99 need archival backup. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:51, 18 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Eugene S. David Jr. aka (Eugene Sinclair David Jr.)?
 * Eulie H. David
 * Eugene last mentioned in the 1950s, possible lifespan: 1915–1984


 * Addie Eva Frank
 * Aside from an article by the New Yorker that describes per personality, nothing has been found.


 * Charles E. Kelley
 * Aside from his alleged outburst on set, nothing has been found.


 * Frank Kikel
 * Nothing found

- Knowledgekid87 (talk)

No birth/death dates

 * Gladys W. Allison - Nothing found from sources with the search term "Gladys W. Allison" "Gladys Allison" or adding "midget" after the two. The only mentions of her are in the credits for the film.


 * Franz Balluck - Mentioned by Find A Grave which is not considered to be a reliable source. The dates used are born: 1913, died: 1987. Balluck is also mentioned by another unreliable source IMDb where it states he was born and died in Austria. None of this can be confirmed without a reliable source weighing in on the matter.


 * Valerie Lee Shepard - iMDB has her birth date as December 14, 1931 . There is also a census from 1940 which lists her as an 8 year old in Los Angeles (noted by iMDB) . Nothing can be confirmed though through WP:RS linking her to the movie or if the child in the census is the same person. (Added with correct info)

- Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:34, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Very close

 * Marguerite A. Hoy - We have a newspaper source from 1945 that says her sister Helen died.
 * It also says she was interred in Gethsemane Cemetery which is located in Meriden, New Haven County, Connecticut.
 * According to Find A Grave, her sister died in 1969 and is also buried there. (Can't use per WP:RS)
 * I can't confirm if Marguerite was born in 1906.

- Knowledgekid87 (talk) 05:23, 2 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Jessie E. Kelley ("Jessie Becker") - Jessie apparently left her husband (and fellow munchkin actor) Charles E. Kelley and married Charlie Becker who played the Munchkinland mayor. Her alleged lifespan is 1907 to 1968 per Find A Grave. However, we can not use this as a source per Reliable sources/Perennial sources (unreliable). I have found nothing outside of this source other than a mention on Facebook. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:03, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Behaviour on-set?
I believe there are some anecdotes about the Munchkin actors running wild during the filming. This might be the place to feature some of them. Valetude (talk) 11:48, 16 August 2019 (UTC)


 * If it is included, then it would fall under the "1939 film" section. I had added a section already on the Matina Brothers article regarding their role. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:35, 16 August 2019 (UTC)