Talk:Musa of Parthia

Thermusa's Origin And Sources Cited
It makes no sense (at present, at least) to cite a page on Cleopatra Selene II as a source for Musa.

It also seems odd that Augustus would gift a concubine (a slave?) to someone as important as the King of Kings. Further, as I understand it Phraates sent his sons (and some grandsons) to Rome as his hostages, around the same time as Musa came to Parthia, so we would need a source to back up her having a direct hand in the matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fantini (talk • contribs) 02:01, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I am somewhat convinced by the argument that she was a Daughter of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra. But I don't buy the other claims of Ralph Elis.--JaredMithrandir (talk) 22:59, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Bust vs coin
Found some more information about the bust vs coin "controversy". - LouisAragon (talk) 17:27, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I added a reference to Franz Cumont's article. I think the picture of the bust should still be in the article, with a caption saying something along the lines of "A Greek bust initially thought be that of Musa, now in the The National Museum of Iran".  T8612  (talk) 20:01, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes good idea - I've added it now. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:04, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Marriage to Phraates V
Josephus' allegation can be verified here: :

''About this time died Phraates, king of the Parthians, by the treachery of Phraataces his son, upon the occasion following: When Phraates had had legitimate sons of his own, he had also an Italian maid-servant, whose name was Thermusa, who had been formerly sent to him by Julius Caesar, among other presents. He first made her his concubine; but he being a great admirer of her beauty, in process of time having a son by her, whose name was Phraataces, he made her his legitimate wife, and had a great respect for her. Now she was able to persuade him to do any thing that she said, and was earnest in procuring the government of Parthia for her son; but still she saw that her endeavors would not succeed, unless she could contrive how to remove Phraates's legitimate sons [out of the kingdom;] so she persuaded him to send those his sons as pledges of his fidelity to Rome; and they were sent to Rome accordingly, because it was not easy for him to contradict her commands. Now while Phraataces was alone brought up in order to succeed in the government, he thought it very tedious to expect that government by his father's donation [as his successor]; he therefore formed a treacherous design against his father, by his mother's assistance, with whom, as the report went, he had criminal conversation also.''

I would say this is more than a rumour, but at the same time less than absolute certainty. It is certainly taken at face value by some scholars. Pointing out that this claim, if true, would be highly exceptional for Iranian culture does not really help, because Musa's whole biography seems quite exceptional. Yaan (talk) 14:46, 6 April 2020 (UTC)


 * I just quoted what the historian Bigwood said. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:23, 6 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The notion that Julius Ceasar would give a "maid servant" or "slave girl" as a gift to Rome's greatest rival and that King Phraates IV would make her the queen of the Persian Empire is nothing more than ridiculous propaganda. The problem with historians is they tend to view anything that's documented as the gospel truth, no matter who or where it comes from.  First of all, the chronology is wrong.  JC died in 44BC while Phraates IV reigns begins 7 years later, in 37BC.  If the event occurred, it's more likely that it was Augustus, not JC.  One should never take a Roman/Jewish propagandist like Josephus, at his word.  In any event, it's a good example of racial/ethnic, supremacist, propaganda that a Persian king would make the lowest Roman woman, his queen. However, other events would suggest the possibility that Cleopatra VII was pregnant at the time of JC's death.  While there is no direct evidence for this, the Roman noble/historian, Cicero, talks about the tension in Rome when Cleopatra made her escape to Egypt.  Referring to the miscarriage of Cassius' wife, he then makes the comment, "I hope it may prove true of the queen and that Caesar of hers (De regina velim atque etiam de Caesare illo)". But a short time later, that concern vanished.  If Cleopatra had given birth to a boy, then there would have been a rival claim to Julius Ceasar's estate and Octavian/Augustus' claim would be in doubt.  However, if it was a girl, then no such claim could be made.  After the war with Cleopatra and Antony, Augustus brought all of her children (except Ceasarion) to Rome where they were then raised by his family. Musa was not included in the records because to do so would have been problematic for the Julio/Claudian rule of the Roman Empire.  It is more likely the case, that Augustus gave Musa (who's real name was Thea Musa Ourania) in marriage to King Phraates IV as a peace offering in order to form a détente between Rome and Persia (unlike his predecessors, Augustus never went to war against Persia).  Furthermore, if you look at the bust of Musa (Thermusa) and the busts of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra VII there is a striking resemblance.  Pvsalsedo (talk) 23:15, 5 June 2021 (UTC)