Talk:Nadia Comăneci/Archive 1

Title stolen from Shaposhnikova??
Now what is with this paragraph:

''It has been stated that the beam title was stolen from Natalia Shaposhnikova and given to Nadia because of the head judge, Maria Simionescu, had trained with Comaneci and boosted her score so she could have the gold. It is also stated that she had also refused to allow Yelena Daydova to receive the all-around title because that would force Nadia to tie for silver. As a result she was fired as an Olympic judge even though to this day she refuses ever favoring Nadia when scoring.''

Apart from the fact that Shaposhnikova only won the bronze medal in this event, what are the sources for such dubious statements? How could Simionescu could have possibly train "with" Comaneci?Pyretus (talk) 10:08, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Simionescu established the gymnastics school where Nadia trained.She had been a friend of Nadia's since Nadia's childhood and had given her ballet training. Barry Lorge,Washington Post,July 26 1980,F1 F 5,”They thought,with justification,that the title should have gone to Natalia Shaposhnikova who was more assured than Comaneci on the 4-inch beam tonight.Shaposhnikova executed a difficult routine faultlessly but got no satisfaction from the judges…Comaneci wobbled a couple of times and nearly fell.It was not vintage Nadia and when Shaposhnikova followed,needing a 9.95 for the gold,she was brilliant.A single – hand handstand brought spontaneous “bravos” from the crowd and when Shaposhnikova dismounted to rhythmic applause,gave a characteristic snap of her ponytail and waved to the adoring crowd it was evident she thought she had won..Her score was not posted until after a 6 minute delay…In fact,the only really radiant countenance at the moment belonged to Maria Simionescu,the Head Judge who had argued Thursday for Comaneci’s final score to be raised and refused to punch it into the computer when it was not. She was obviously boosting her Comaneci again and trying to downgrade Shaposhnikova.Smiling with self-satisfaction her severe smirk left no room for doubt that Shaposhnikova was about to be declared a loser".Again Simionescu's behaviour led to complaints about her "unseemly nationalism". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.47.88.92 (talk) 10:58, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

older entries
I have edited the Nadia Comaneci information in this WIKIPEDIA, to make it more updated, and also deleted the rumours that should not be shown in a responsible encyclopedia web site. All the informations provided have proof and evidents, to make them more relivent to readers about this remarkable lady.

Ah! The voice of a censor. Look around Wikipedia, and any responsible encyclopedia, and you will find rumors (e.g. Mariette Hartley was rumored to be married to James Garner, which is included in the article, even though the rumor is false!). Rumors are part of the identity and significance of many events and people. It is inaccurate and unhelpful to censor the rumors. Rather, to be useful as an encyclopedia, significant rumors should be included and identified as such.

I agree with the first writer. When a rumour is proven to be false, I believe it should be discarded from public memory. For example, the singer Britney Spears was once rumoured to have hit the bottle. She was photographed with a bottle of a green liquid which was thought to be an alcoholic spirit. This was later found to be harmless Ginseng herbs. Would it be fair to the public who rely on Wikiepdia for FACTS to include this story in the Britney page? Would it be fair to write "Britney was rumoured to be a drinker of strong alcoholic spirits" or would it be equally valid or useless rather to then write "The rumour was found to be untrue". Rumours are useless pieces of information which are later deemed untrue. They are fuelled by the greedy media in order to get a quick buck and this sort of carry on should, in my view, be kept well away from a wonderful, USEFUL, website such as this. Nadia Comaneci was a true hero, one which has been unequalled in strength of character and determination, will and pure excellence. Who cares if some silly journalist decided to make a sleezy scandal about her. Long live a world free from useless information and filled with Olympic champions such as Nadia Comaneci! User:Jaw101ie 02:41, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Rumor or Fact?
Hi. I've heard over the years that one of the main reasons for Comaneci's defection was "the fact" that she was being sexually harassed by some big shot in the Romanian government. Is that true or just another dumb story some tabloid threw at us? IF there's any shread of truth in this, it should be included in the article. Does anyone know anything about that? Redux 00:25, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * "It was even rumoured that Nadia's fingernails had been torn out by Nicu Ceausescu when she refused to comply with his sexual fantasies. All of these rumours were untrue, she insists. 'This is not my life. I knew Nicu Ceausescu, yes. But if you work with someone in a building, does this mean you're romantically attached to them?' And there was no suicide attempt, and no drinking bleach.'" (from "The perfect ten" in the Observer) --Closeapple 05:40, 2005 Apr 5 (UTC)

In her AUTOBIOGRAHY(she wrote it her self!so its most likely true!)she said she did drink the bleach, but totaly by accident! She was in somewhat an argument with her coaches(during her training in between being at Karoly's) and when she went in her room, she drank from the wrong cup. She is not the only person who could make that tye of mistake. When you have to cups next to each other youeasily make that mistake. Multile times have most people drank from someone elses drink if they were in the same type of cup or same type of drink bottle ect, when they were set next to each other. -source: nadia's autobiography;Nadia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.215.159.202 (talk) 00:01, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

movie of 1976 olympic success
does anybody knows if there is on the web the way to see the 10/10 peformance of Nadia Comaneci in 1976? That would be interesting to add as external link. Thanks --Sailko 13:29, 11 February 2006 (UTC)--


 * I have added a link to a Google Video movie of the 1976 performance. Razvan Socol 10:11, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Nadia's first child
I couldn't believe it. It's really terrific for her and Bart.

Isn't she a bit old to be having a baby at 45 years of age?

--EuropracBHIT 05:38, 3 April 2006 (UTC).


 * I've been hearing in recent years that it's healthier (biologically) to have a child before age 35, but it's not impossible to have a perfectly healthy child well into one's 40s, and many older women do not even go through menopause until they are well into their 50s.  There have even been a few rare cited cases of women 60 years or over having a child, as unlikely as that may seem. 63.21.91.164 04:28, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Politics
This article is not the place for it, but I want to make a little remark for the following political statement:"She recieved this award while the country was under the brutal, Stalinist reign of Nicolae Ceauşescu."

My remark is: under the same "brutal, Stalinist reign of Nicolae Ceauşescu" Romania was the only ally of the USSR to go to 1984 Summer Olympics in the USA, while others boycotted the event. Heh? :) Cmapm 00:15, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Sources?
I find the following quote to be doubtful: "She is widely considered to be perhaps the greatest gymnast of all time". Please, provide citations for this. I personally think, that e.g. Larisa Latynina overall performed better, at least by Olympic medal count. And unlike Latynina Comaneci didn't win the World AA title. I think, that Comaneci perhaps received the greatest media attention of all time among all female gymnasts, but this doesn't necessarily imply, that she is "widely considered the greatest gymnast of all time". Cmapm 22:22, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

What the heck is an "illness test" and is there a source for this information? Vesperholly 09:19, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Cmapm: There is at least one poll cited in the article that mentions she was voted #4 on a list of all-time great favorite athletes, ahead of Pele and Ali and the highest-ranked female on the list. So, she's certainly one of the most-remembered, at least in North America, where the poll I mention was taken (and Romania, of course). Between that and being the only girl gymnast to ever score a perfect ten like that, well, one should think that the comment would almost not even need tweaking. I'd argue it should be edited to her being considered "one of" the greatest, though, if we're going to keep the word "widely" (which I'd actually argue should probably be replaced with "often", which is more neutral-sounding and easier to verify through sources). She's definitely one of the most notable (and famous) gymnasts of our times, and that should obviously be noted, it's more a matter of how we note this in words that's an issue. 63.21.91.164 04:35, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed. There's almost no need to add anything to what user 63.21.91.164 already said. I'll steal a minute of your time though with an example from a different sport/game: although the overall record of the likes of Garry Kasparov and Anatoly Karpov are miles away from that of Bobby Fischer, that doesn't stop some experts and enthusiast alike to consider the later (one of) the greatest chess player of all times. Often brilliancy, innovation, age at which certain feats are achieved (remember what 1975-1976 meant for Nadia?), and distance from the rest of the pack weight more than performing constantly high for x number of years. Perhaps Bobby Fischer is not the best example, because – after all – Nadia wasn't a one-time sensation. What's more, if she's the most celebrated woman gymnast, that should tell you something. Certainly she's not there because of her looks alone, or because of having smarter PR representatives.81.101.17.192 (talk) 00:09, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * All of that being said, I still agree with Cmapm on this. The problem here is that the statement in question is subjective, no matter how you try to back it up. Subjective statements have no place in encyclopedic articles, ever. Now if you really want to say something along those lines, find an official quote by someone that can be sourced and put it like this (Cosell is only an example), "Howard Cosell said she is widely considered the greatest gymnast of all time." Then source it. If you cannot find a quote then it doesn't belong. You can write about her being #4 and being the highest ranked female and the polls and whatever else you can think of, but that still does not back up the subjective sentence. Leave it for the reader to decide for themselves. With all of that, the reader can probably guess it on their own. MagnoliaSouth (talk) 17:09, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Overweight
Isn't "overweight and out of shape" redundant? And doesn't "out of shape" need hyphens? 68.215.209.144 21:25, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm wondering more about the "overweight" word. You can be a healthy weight and still be out of shape, and you can be overweight (not greatly, of course) and in shape. Nadia had put on weight in '78, but "overweight" generally conjures up the image of somebody medically out of their BMI range. Nadia was still pretty fit compared to your average person: See here. Eiffelle 07:17, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

First 10.0
It seems that Nellie Kim also got a 10.0 in the same Montreal '76 Olympics. If Nadia Comaneci was first, that is just because uneven beams was before vault. IMHO both should be credited as the firsts in getting a 10.0, not just Comaneci. VbrotoVbroto 23:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * No, Comaneci's 10.0 was legitimately the first.


 * There were four separate days of competition in gymnastics at the Montreal Olympics: Team prelims, team finals (Competition I); all-around (Competition II); event finals (Competition III). Both gymnasts competed in all rounds of competition, so it is not as if Comaneci had any kind of head start or was simply lucky enough to "go first" on the apparatus.


 * Comaneci earned her first 10.0 on July 18th during CI; Kim did not win her first 10.0 until July 21st during CII...several days later.


 * Kim is correctly credited as the first gymnast to achieve 10.0s on the vault and floor exercise; however, Comaneci was technically the first to achieve the score at all.


 * http://www.gymn-forum.com/results/Olympics/1976_Montreal/1976_women_team_1-3.html --Scores for CI, July 18-19


 * http://www.gymn-forum.com/results/Olympics/1976_Montreal/1976_women_aa.html --Scores for CII, July 21

Mademoiselle Sabina 11:43, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Deleted information from the article
I've noticed that several passages have been repeatedly deleted from this article, most notably the ones concerning the scoring biases at the 1980 Olympics and the 1981 University Games.


 * Since all the information in those passages is factual and is backed up with citations, I don't see why it continues to be removed. The quote "Yelena performed better that day" is from Nadia herself. Leaving the passage simply as "they debated for 30 minutes" doesn't tell the reader about the result of the conflict, how people saw it, etc. It simply infers something was wrong, without saying what. Either a) both sides should be shown or b) the entire passage must be removed.


 * Many people, including ROM supporters, have considered the 1981 UG a joke. The fact that Comaneci's vault was only worth a 9.9. but still received a score of 10 is a recorded fact. Nor are the ages of the other ROM team members, or the makeup of the judging panel, fiction.

I don't think this article should be a fan page; the bad must be shown along with the good. The entire tone of the article is very complimentary to Ms. Comaneci and since these issues do come up frequently in discussion, I see no reason why they should not be included, objectively, here. DanielEng 07:01, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Nearly five years later
Not to dredge up the past, but I just wanted to clarify the issue here in case anyone else reads this and wonders. A good rule of thumb (though it is by no means required) is at least 2 reliable published sources for every one claim. So if you say something like "Tom, Dick and Harry all publicly declared that Comaneci's vault was actually a 9.9 rather than a 10.0..." then you should supply two sources for each of those names. This way there is no room for debate. Cheers! MagnoliaSouth (talk) 17:57, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) On the quote about Yelena, that really isn't relevant at all. It's more trivial (as in trivia), which isn't a fact thus not encyclopedic. In fact, you could even say it's completely subjective because it is. While Nadia may have said it, it doesn't make it fact. Clearly it needed to be removed and obviously it was.
 * 2) I will agree that this is not a fan page and should be unbiased. However, "many people" says nothing. Be direct and name those many people. Find a source and use their quotes. You say it "is a recorded fact", so if it is then find those records and quote them.

The following are how the World University games were reported in gymnastic magazines at the time : International Gymnast magazine,October 1981,Eileen Langsley,p.11,”With accusations of bias and cheating on the part of judging officials in the gymnastics events…There seemed to be wide interpretation of what constitutes student status with Romania entering Emelia Eberle,Rodica Dunca and Dumitrita Turner who are still schoolgirls…There were also complaints that on every piece of apparatus but one,the Romanians had a Head judge plus 2 other judges;there were also several Romanian representatives on the Jury of Appeal…Throughout the 4 days of competition,the crowd wildly cheered the Romanians but also indulged in booing the good performances of the Russians and in applauding them if they fell from the apparatus….At the same time ,the Romanian girls were being given tremendous support and the benefit of some very generous marking too.Apparently no deductions were made for Romanian girls who went out of the floor area…Nadia smiled easily and readily but at 43 kilos she looked very thin for a woman of her age.She started out on vault where she performed a very respectable half-on full-off showing good form and repulsion and was awarded a 10.0.This score provoked howls of protest from foreign gymnasts,spectators and press as it was not possible to score 10 points on this vault under the tariff system in the FIG Code of Points..Her new bar routine showed (on high bar short clear to handstand to immediate front straddle somersault to recatch,two back stadlers) with a handstand position missed on the first of them and another one missed on a back uprise,and a short half turn back somersault dismount – her score 9.9.She fell off beam attempting a Barani to tuck back … Having being fortunate enough to see Nadia compete when she was at her best it was disheartening to see her awarded these high scores when she did not deserve them.All it serves to do is to devalue the scores and to detract from her greatness and the occasions where she really has deserved them,so ultimately the judges did her no favours at all…The Chinese delegation made their feelings known by sending the coach and reserve to collect the teams bronze medals.Anyone with a genuine interest in and concern for the sport of artistic gymnastics cannot have failed to be depressed,worried and upset by the nights events and fearful too of where this approach will ultimately lead the sport…The officials of the Chinese delegation expressed both incredulity and disillusionment that such things could happen”. The British Gymnast magazine,October 81,p.33,”It degenerated into an embarrassing demonstration of partisanship by the Romanian organisers and audience..It became apparent from the start that judging standards left a lot to be desired. If the first night caused controversy and ended in acrimony and accusations,the women’s competition on the second day made matters even worse..The crowd support for the home team was so deafening at times that it was difficult for some gymnasts to hear their music or the announcements…Top mark of 10 for Nadia’s half-on full-off vault.This mark provoked a storm of protest from foreign coaches and supporters particularly as Zakharova’s Cuervo had scored 9.9…Probably the team with the most justification for feeling aggrieved were the Chinese who were underscored on every piece of apparatus and who made their feelings known by not appearing on the podium to collect their bronze medals for the team competitions..All in all,a bad night for gymnastics and one which will only serve to bring the sport into disrepute”. The normally pro-Romanian vice-President of the West German gymnastics federation Dr.Josef Goehler,IG October 81,p.13,”Fiasco in Bucharest – that disgraceful meet that should be forgotten as fast as possible,in fact to put it more plainly,which should be passed over in silence.The numerical superiority and consequently the predominance of the Romanian judges made regular competition impossible.Accordingly,the team contest had to be considered as a mere farce.And it was a really bad joke if you looked at the structure of the jury for women’s gymnastics,for instance on the floor,where the Russian Lidia Ivanova as the only non-Romanian judge fought a losing battle.Particularly flagrant misjudgements were Nadia’s vaults.She wanted to do “all-in all-out”,but with the best of goodwill this was at most ¾ -in all-out,leave alone the execution.10 points were the award for this at the team contest ! Another Romanian girl got off the floor mat,but the judges did not even take note of that.We could still mention such absurdities for pages on end,but the best will be just to forget that so-called contest ! Surely it was not just a matter of chance that the GDR and Bulgaria had sent no teams.All of them probably had a hunch of what would happen !”.So let that be enough of justified complaints.The unsportsmanlike attitude of the spectators who got almost crazy applauding their own boys and girls,but responded to the faults of the Russian gymnasts with derisive laughter or ironic applause.Just a last point : the Romanian boys were better than usual but this certainly does not justify downright comical scores”. Some commentators feel that the vault Nadia actually performed only had a start value of 9.4 and that she should have been deducted 0.5 for performing a different vault to the one she had signalled - At the Commonwealth Games 1978 Elfie Schlegel of Canada indicated the wrong vault and was deducted 0.5 - Had this happened Nadia’s score should have been 8.9 instead of 10.Despite falling from beam Nadia still won the AA title by 0.2.As it had been 26 months since Nadia had last beaten a Soviet gymnast in AA competition and as Zakharova had defeated her for the 1979 World Cup in Japan,some feel the Romanian authorities weren’t going to have Zakharova win again.The behaviour of the Romanian judges and officials here – combined with their behaviour at the 1980 Olympics – made such a bad impression within the gymnastics community that Romania has never held a major international championship in the following 30 years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.47.88.92 (talk) 17:15, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Reference section
I've added a reference section, but noticed that all the sourcing notes except for two jump directly out to external sources and are not cited in a proper reference section method. Shouldn't that be changed?NYDCSP 03:51, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Recent debate
This passage has repeatedly been deleted from the intro to the article: She is one of the best-known gymnasts in the world and, along with Olga Korbut, is credited with popularizing the sport around the world.

Apparently, the arguments against this passage are that a) there's no need to mention Olga Korbut; b) there's no need to mention who popularized gymnastics; c) there are no sources. All of these arguments are completely unfounded.

The information--that Korbut and Comaneci were the gymnasts that inspired popular interest in gymnastics, are clearly cited. From the first: The popularity of Korbut and Comaneci launched a gymnastics movement in the United States... From the second: ''Artistic Gymnastics was made popular in the Mexico Games in 1968 by the athlete Vera Caslavska and then again in Munich in 1972 with Olga Korbut. However, the sport reached a high level of general popularity with Romanian athlete Nadia Comaneci,''

As per WP:LEAD, one of the purposes of the lead section of the article is to assert the subject's notability. In Comaneci's case, one of the reasons she is notable is because she helped popularize the sport. She helped popularize the sport with Korbut, and the rivalry and differences between the two were some of the reasons for the attention. Not mentioning Korbut gives an undue POV slant to the article. In addition, subjects on Wiki are routinely crosslinked to other articles (Comaneci, for instance, is mentioned in articles for Daniela Silivas, Ludmilla Tourischeva and Olga Korbut, as well as many others) and there's nothing to get upset about with it. A reminder that this is not a fan page or promotion for Nadia.DanielEng (talk) 02:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Better Photograph Available?
I believe a better photograph would improve this article. The current photo shows Ms. Comaneci bundled in winter clothes. More to the point, half of the photograph is occupied by Condaleeza Rice, which makes little sense to me. Surely a more appropriate photo is available, perhaps from Ms. Comaneci's performance at the Montreal games (Google images provides several possibilities). I'm sure she would be happy to provide something unencumbered by copyright restrictions. If there are no objections, I'll see if I can find something more relevent. Bwotte (talk) 01:06, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The photo's not the best one for the article, no. Unfortunately, though, with a lot of different editors searching, nobody has been able to come up with another free image. I've seen the ones from Montreal on Google too, but they're all professional photos and none of those are copyright-free. If you have any leads or can find a better photo that won't tangle with WP's image rules, please go ahead and try--it would be nice to have an actual gymnastics photo for this article.DanielEng (talk) 01:38, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

IIRC, Romania did not have a copyright law when it was behind the Iron Curtain. Perhaps a gov't photo can be found? 70.51.11.210 (talk) 08:43, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Seriously? If that's the case, it would make life a lot easier, because there are a lot of old Romanian photos of her floating around. If anyone can ask at the WP:IMAGE noticeboard and see if that is really the case, we can take care of this. Thank you for the heads up! DanielEng (talk) 17:39, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hehe, one should be cautious about that. I suspect that many pictures of her circulating at the time in the Romanian media were in fact copyright protected images taken by various professional bodies present at the games. Even if the pictures were taken by Romanian journalists that's not to say they're copyright free. I know for sure that other type of media (e.g. music, movies) from Eastern Europe is certainly protected by copyright, even if released/produced behind the Iron Curtain, so there you go. Btw, the article in Romanian uses a nice Montreal Olympics shot. I wonder if they got permission to use it or if it's free.81.101.19.67 (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * [continued] I checked and it seems they got permission from www.nadiacomaneci.com to use it. I assume they asked Nadia or whoever owns the website. So, anybody cares to link the image to the article? (I don't know how to, otherwise I'd do it myself). 81.101.19.67 (talk) 21:01, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation
We say it's ko.mə'neʧʲ, which I understand as (roughly) "ko-ma-NICH". What about the i at the end of her name? Is "ko-ma-NI-chi" wrong? -- JackofOz (talk) 04:31, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * As I understand it, the final "i" isn't pronounced separately, but is an orthographic convention to indicate that the "c" is pronounced as /ʧ/ instead of /k/. Vilĉjo (talk) 09:47, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. How would they spell it if they did want the "ko-ma-ni-chi" pronunciation?  --  JackofOz (talk) 06:44, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't claim to know the language, but I think it would probably end "-cii" (cf. ending of the Lord's Prayer in Romanian: "în vecii vecilor" (for ever and ever), where the 2nd word is pronounced /'veʧi/). Vilĉjo (talk) 22:19, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Lovely. Thanks again.  --  JackofOz (talk) 22:28, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Country under Personal information
Nadia's country shows the Romanian flag but the article indicated that she is a naturalized citizen of the United States and has dual citizenship. Shouldn't the U.S. flag be added beside the Romanian flag? Starrymessenger (talk) 01:08, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The country flag in the infobox isn't about citizenship; it's for the country she represented as an athlete in her competitive career. Comaneci competed only for Romania, which is why it's the only flag depicted in the infobox. DanielEng (talk) 01:54, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Gotcha. It is "Country represented". Starrymessenger (talk) 18:16, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

1980 Summer Olympics and after
The controversial scoring, judges turning a blind eye to blunders committed by soviet gymnasts, and the 30 minutes delay before showing Nadia's beam result (as fas as I know the last score which could have made the difference between 1st and 2nd place) are now part of gymnastics folklore. Was really Nadia wronged or simply Yelena Davydova performed better overall? Perhaps it's worth sticking that in the article, considering that not only Romanians voiced such opinions (hence no question of bias). Also, her subsequent retirement (in 1981, when quite a few people hoped to see her performing as late as the 1984 Olympics) came as a bitter surprise. Was she fed up and tired, or was it a forced retirement? Interviews given at the time to foreign journalists hinted at the latter... if she mentioned anything of that sort in her autobiography, again it would be interesting to know. 81.101.17.192 (talk) 21:13, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Something about the 30 minute wait was in the article at one point, as shown in another Talk section here. It was taken out because a couple of Nadia fans kept coming in and deleting the second part, where Nadia indicated that she was perfectly OK with the final results. Frankly, I think the rest of us editors got tired of reverting and trying to fight with the Nadia fans who wouldn't keep to NPOV, so the whole thing went. DanielEng (talk) 02:27, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Uhm, thanks for clarifying that. I was hoping for a reference to a survery/poll or expert oppinion if available. The fact that Nadia declared herself happy with the result is interesting (I didn't know about it), but it doesn't nail it: it could be that she indeed thought Davydova better, or that she was humble. Also, if too many edit warriors are around, why not semi-protecting the page? 81.101.17.192 (talk) 00:32, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately when it's only a few fans adding things, and some of them are actual registered users, it doesn't meet the criteria for page protection. I will have to go back and look at the book, but as I recall Nadia has a little section on the meet and is critical of her performance, and says something along the lines of "Yelena hit her routines better that day." The only other things I've read about it have been various news articles which simply state there was a delay before the score came up but don't delve into the controversy, and Bela's opinion (who obviously thinks Nadia should have won, since she was his gymnast). Everyone has opinions on it, but I haven't read anything else anywhere that could be a valid Wiki source under WP:SOURCE, that would suggest that it wasn't a fair contest. The meet scores are also up at Gymn-forum here and it can be noted that Nadia had a fall on UB in the team competition--since it wasn't New Life, that score carried over to the AA. She also had a 9.750 on her first event, vault, which left her behind Davydova from the start of the meet. DanielEng (talk) 02:27, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * As to the second part, forced retirement--I will have to go back and look at her autobiography again but I'm not sure what she says. If anyone wants to try to find sources elsewhere for it, go for it. DanielEng (talk) 22:04, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

The sequence of events in 1980 is as follows : Thursday July 24th began the All-Around final.In 1st place was Gnauck of East germany,2nd Shaposhnikova USSR,3rd Eberle Romania,4th Comaneci Romania,5th Davydova USSR. In the team competition some gymnasts scores had been built upon the scores their teammates had received,but they didn’t have that benefit in the AA.Each gymnast was now on her own.Each had to build her own ladder to the top.In the team competition – whose scores counted towards both AA medals and event finals – Davydova was hampered by performing 4th for her team before Kim and Shaposhnikova.Comaneci and Gnauck performed 6th for their respective teams.Essentially they had a head start over Davydova in the scoring and she had had to perform better than them to achieve the same score. The gymnasts were divided into 4 groups of 9,each group starting on a different piece of apparatus .Formation of the groups and starting order within the groups was decided by lot.Neil Admur,New York Times,July 25 1980, A17,”The drama on the final rotation added to the suspense.Gnauck was second among the 9 gymnasts on the vault,Davydova seventh on the bars and Comaneci eighth on the beam”. Barry Lorge,Washington Post,July 25 1980,p.9,”Gnauck,first of the contenders up in the fourth and final rotation.Her first vault looked good but was too safe : 9.7.She knew she had to do better but she buckled on the landing of her second vault”.Peter Aykroyd,International Gymnastics : Sport,Art or Science ?,1987,p.68,”She went into the all-round finals with a slight lead,but weak vaulting lost her this advantage”. Davydova's performance on bars :The New York Times noted that she “performed beautifully”.The LA Times “A sterling performance”.The Washington Post,”Davydova performed a fabulous routine,boldly and confidently”.The FIG website describes this exercise as “Fantastic”.United States Olympic book 1980,United States Olympic Committee,p.141,”Every move Davydova made on the uneven parallel bars was the move of a champion,a queen of all gymnasts”. A minute after she had left the podium her score came up – 9.95.Elena was in the lead and only Comaneci could overtake her. Nadia needed a score of 9.925 to tie for gold or a higher score to win gold outright.The last time she had scored as high as this in an AA final was at the 1976 Olympics.Her average score on beam in 1979 was 9.75. After one of her back flips Nadia had to flail her arms for balance.Her knee bent slightly under 360 degree rotation.There was a pause after her aeriel walkover and before her aeriel cartwheel.She pushed off her dismount from one foot and then the other instead of both together.She landed askew and took a large step back. United States Olympic book 1980,United States Olympic Committee,p.141,"She was good but not great" The judges awarded her 9.85.Davydova has won gold.Who stands to benefit from any delay in posting the score ? Bela Karolyi,the Romanian team coach,was peering over the shoulder of the Head Judge on beam – Maria Simionescu,a fellow Romanian –observing the scoring judges marks and when he saw that Nadia wasn’t going to win he started remonstrating and shouting at the judges.He spat at the judges and he himself boasts that twice he knocked over the scoreboards.Ernest Hemingway wrote that one of the virtues of sport was that it taught people how to lose with dignity.Unfortunately it didn’t happen in this case. Simionescu violated her Olympic Oath by not posting Nadia's score.She tried to persuade the judges to up their score for Nadia to win gold.After 28 minutes the score was posted - Peter Shilston British Gymnast magazine,September 80,p.24,”Finally,Comaneci was rightly given only 9.85”. The other Soviet gymnasts ,aided by Katherina Rensch of East Germany and Lena Adomat of Sweden tossed Elena in the air in celebration. At the 59th FIG General Assembly there was criticism of some of the judges at the 1980 Olympics.But the only Head Judge criticised – in either the men’s or women’s competition - was Simionescu.The report which included this criticism was accepted unanimously by the 48 Federation delegates present. In 1984,before the L.A. Olympics,the United States Gymnastics Federation proposed “When the average score of a gymnast is 9.8 or above,the superior judge should not be permitted to have discussion with any of the other judges concerning the final score". Franklyn Edwards,President of the British Gymnastics Association suggested that no coach should be allowed to talk to officials and the Head Judge should be from a neutral country. Lyn Moran,International Gymnast Associate Editor and America's first woman international sportswriter,March 1982,p.75,”Mdme.Simionescu has been a friend of Nadia’s since her childhood,and she has travelled with the Romanian team countless times.They have socialized together,gone to movies together.The times when the Romanian team became embroiled in scoring controversy indicate that Maria Simionescu was always present.In fact,at the big Moscow confrontation over Nadia’s 9.85 beam routine the Head Judge,and first Vice President of the Women’s Technical Committee,was (once again) Mdme.Simionescu.Nadia says herself that she had 2 definite breaks and that mentally she had scored herself at 9.80.The Romanian Head Judge,according to Nadia,flatly refused to put up the score,telling the FIG Committee President to put it up herself. Well,if this were any other international sport we would by now have resolved these perennial scoring conflicts,and the first thing would be to isolate all judges from all gymnasts at all times just as in pro sports.No judge can be truly impartial when they have a subjective,personal involvement with any performer”. The major injustice was that Davydova didn’t win by more.Her superiority was greater than her margin of victory.But Simionescus actions hurt Davydova.It turned a hard-earned and merited win into something controversial. United States Olympic Committee,United States Olympic book 1980,p.141 "The order of finish Davydova,Gnauck and Comaneci (tie),Shaposhnikova and Kim certainly accurately reflects the relative abilities of the worlds top gymnasts”.Nadia herself agrees and has written "That day,Yelena just performed better". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.47.88.92 (talk) 11:04, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Medal Count
What't the story with the World Cup events? According to this link (http://www.gymn-forum.net/bios/women/comaneci.html) she also has 2 Gold and 1 Silver which are not listed in the overall medal count. I've seen that actually with other gymnasts as well. How comes there were both World Cups and Worlds Championships in gymnastics, and why the former is not considered a major event (like olympics, worlds, europeans)?81.101.18.116 (talk) 05:48, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Info Box can use a better picture than a postage stamp
Nadia Comaneci's Info Box contains the picture of a postage stamp. IMHO, the info box would be better served if it contained a portrait of Nadia. Most Info Boxes show a picture of the person depicted in the article. The image of the postage stamp could then be moved to a different section of the article.

With the proliferation of electronic communication, postage stamps are going the way the typewriter and the slide rule. It's silly to show an obsolete object in the Info Box.

"According to some sources, she was born as Anna Kemenes.[8][9][10]"
What is the reason for this out of the blue statement in the Early life section of the page. While backed-up by three sources, it has to be noted that the statement brings no value in the context and does not open the subject for discussion.

As for the referenced sources, to be noted that they are 3 articles published by two newspapers, only one of them being signed. They were published in Western Europe and you can feel the chills of the cold war through them. I do not believe for a second that they are true, nor have they been confirmed (or at least discussed) by anyone since the fall of the communist regime in Romania.

I will remove the statement, and I hope that is someone want to put it back will give first some good reasoning for it.

Ltomuta (talk) 14:47, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Special Skills section
In the Special Skills section, the Comaneci dismount on bars is described as an underswing to a back salto. I thought it was a toe-on to a front with a half twist? Can someone confirm? Cervenka (talk) 01:56, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 01:14, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

ă or a in last name?
I guess the "ă" (whatever you call it) reflects the spelling of her name in Romanian, but "ă" is not a letter in English, so I think "Comaneci" should be spelled with "ă" the first time in the article, pointing out it's the Romanian spelling, and thereafter as "Comaneci". Is there a Wikipedia policy on this? DBlomgren (talk) 16:27, 3 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't know the policy, but just from observation, this would only apply where an article subject has a well recognised name in English, or where the original language uses an entirely different script, not just because of diacritic marks added to Latin script. See for example Lech Wałęsa. Some English language sources (e.g. articles on the BBC website) may have a house style of omitting diacritic marks, but such a source is not in itself evidence of a well recognised English version without the mark (just the BBC's attempt to "dumb down"...) --Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 00:06, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Relationship with Constantin Panait
The article says the US media "[misrepresented] her relationship with Panait" who was "only her business manager," implying that Comăneci was not romantically involved with Panait. But further down it says "in 1990 she and Panait traveled to Montreal [...] It was during this period in Montreal that Comăneci separated from Panait and once again reconnected with Conner. Comăneci married Conner...". This implies that Comăneci was romantically involved with Panait. Which is it? Sadiemonster (talk) 16:36, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I have tweaked the sentence. He was her business manager. re: WP:BLP and WP:SPECULATION we can't speculate on the Wikipedia, so her official memoir published in 2003 is the best source to turn to. On page 154 of the hard copy edition she states that he had accompanied her as a business manager to Canada and one day she woke up and he was gone. She said "I realize our business relationship might have tarnished my name and image, but I safely escaped from Romania." I will tweak a bit more according to this source ("Letters to a Young Gymnast" by Nadia Comaneci, Basic Books, 2003).-Classicfilms (talk) 17:45, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Her memoir was published as part of the Art of Mentoring collection. -Classicfilms (talk) 17:51, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Suicide rumors in media
I reverted the inclusion of a 1990 article that itself was based on a secondary source that claimed there was a suicide attempt. Comaneci refutes this claim in her official memoir "Nadia Comaneci: Letters to a Young Gymnast" (2004). She states:

"No I did not attempt suicide by drinking a bottle of bleach because I saw my boyfriend with another girl as the movie "Nadia" shows. I have heard many accounts of that day and what supposedly happened." (p. 66).

We need to follow WP:BLP with this article. -Classicfilms (talk) 19:54, 11 April 2017 (UTC)