Talk:Nathaniel Hawthorne/GA1

GA Review
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Gonna review this for GA material Intothewoods29 (talk) 21:23, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to put this nomination on hold for a while; this article has a few issues that prevent it from making it to GA status. A lot of the problems involve transitions; right now, the article is a smattering of relevant facts just tossed in there (Example: "Young Nathaniel moved in with maternal relatives. He was lame for a year") that's paraphrased, btw. You've got everything there, it just needs to be organized. Group info together that's about the same thing. Here are some of my suggestions... I hope they help (It looks like a lot, but it's not really):

Lead:
 * Shortly after graduating... His classmates included... (consider switching the sentences and adding a transition)
 * I'm going to rewrite that sentence entirely. Really, I was just looking for a way to get the name "Hawthorne" into the article as soon as possible, so as not to confuse people ("Who is this Hathorne person??"). --Midnightdreary (talk) 21:41, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe separate hawthorne's personal info (marriage, etc.) from his literary works
 * IMO, the bit about the biography at the end of the lead is out of place; incorporate it or get it out of the lead
 * Re: The lede, it's built per WP:LEDE, summarizing the article in the order in which it appears. Separating his biography from his works is counterintuitive to me, in a couple ways. Looking for further input, though. --Midnightdreary (talk) 21:41, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I've re-worked the lede just enough that all of these problems might be solved. Though, consider this: the first graph introduces him, the second tells his life story, the third focuses on his writing style (more or less the article in a nutshell). Let me know what you think! --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:15, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Biography:


 * you start with talking about nathaniel hawthorne, then immediately switch to william and john, and don't say if they're even related to nathaniel. either organize the first section chronologically or organize it centering about nathaniel (nathaniel's father was... he changed his name because... etc.)
 * I believe I've answered this concern now. --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:15, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Like I said above, the transitions need work. For example (the bold text is just my suggestion): While living with his relatives, young Hawthorne was hit on the leg while playing "bat and ball" etc."
 * I've done what I could, especially in that section. I'm sure it can improve further; let me know if there are any specific spots that stand out as in need of attention. --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:15, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The section about his newpaper needs a transition.
 * Same as above! --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:15, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The paragraph about his friends at college is interspersed with info about his uncle; group info into paragraph.
 * I think I've reworked that paragraph nicely. Further thoughts welcome. --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:15, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Other Sections:


 * The categories could use some renaming. The marriage section is also about family, and it ends in 1851, while the next section begins with 1846.
 * It might be beneficial to put the marriage/family category after biography, then put the chronological sections next. Also, you might consider putting years (18## - 18##) as the section names instead of "middle years" if you can. I don't know if that's possible, if it's not, that's okay.


 * I renamed the subsection to "Marriage and family". Beyond that, I have to respectfully disagree. The subsections just serve as earmarks to what is about to happen; certainly, all aspects of his life (as ours) spill into all other aspects. --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:15, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, it works either way. :) Thanks for all the work you put in. Intothewoods29 (talk) 22:37, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

The later paragraphs, especially the literary stuff, is a lot better than the beginning paragraphs. Just fix the lead and any transitions you can see, make it flow better, and everything will be fine. :)
 * Thanks! Let me know if there are further improvements. If I have aim for FA status on this one, I'm sure there will be significant expansion. --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:15, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

All the pictures seem fine (that's cool that you found his grave). One of your sources needs a ISBN number if you can find it, but other than that all the refs seem good. It's stable (except for that bit about the space aliens in the talk page), and covers everything I can think that you'd need. No original research that I spotted. good job. Just work on making it flow, and tell me on my talk page when you're done. Hope that's not too much. :) Intothewoods29 (talk) 01:22, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I visit Hawthorne's grave at Sleepy Hollow Cemetery at least twice a year! The one older book lacks an ISBN number because it, alas, never had one (at least not in the version I had). It seems the editor who was concerned we did not address the Hawthorne / space aliens connection never provided a reliable source. Ah well... --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:15, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Response to Midnightdreary
Great job! It's like a totally different article! It flows much more smoothly and is easy to read. It's much more organized, and a lot of the loose facts have been tied in nicely. I think all of my concerns have been addressed, and the article is, IMO, a Good Article.

1.Well-written, good transitions, organized 2.Good, reliable refs 3.Material is relevant to the biography; stays on topic 4.neutral 5.stable 6.tagged pics

Congrats! Thanks for all the work you put in, to you and everyone else that contributed. If I can be of any help to you in the future, just let me know. :) Intothewoods29 (talk) 22:37, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Religion
As a Unitarian-near-Transcendentalist, Hawthorne did not believe in any "inherent" sin. He was certainly interested in writing about what we consider evil, but let's not let religious bias influence the language we use to describe his mind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.70.99.101 (talk) 23:15, 10 August 2008 (UTC)