Talk:National Museum of the Holodomor-Genocide

Mr Medvedyev and the Holodomor
Mr Medvedyev is a PM of a country, which supports anti-Holodomor propaganda of the rebels. His picture here is a perversion.Xx236 (talk) 13:15, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
 * No, he does not support any "anti-Holodomor" propaganda, your reason is absolutely absurd. I don't like it are not arguments to use in talk page discussions. Jirka.h23 (talk) 07:10, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia isn't a political forum. Which other pages show here politicians? The Holocaust doesn't present German and Jewish politicians. Xx236 (talk) 07:35, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * No, he does not support any "anti-Holodomor" propaganda, - please remeber that your texts will stay here for hundreds years, so check before your write. The rebels don't allow to teach about the Holodomor and Russia supports the rebels, so yes, Russia supports the anti-Holodomor propaganda.Xx236 (talk) 07:37, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Medvedev slams Ukraine’s Great Famine stunt, Bipolar Holodomor, Medvedev humiliates millions of innocent victims of 1932 -1933 Holodomor: Yushchenko Xx236 (talk) 07:39, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Again, Medvedev does not support any "anti-Holodomor" propaganda, what he is saying, that it was simply not a genocide, as PACE and UNESCO or UN also rejected. About rebels, as you said this is not a political forum. All I can say is this is just absurd, if for example USA support Syrian opposition including Ahrar ash-Sham and Al-nusra (Al-Qaeda in Syria), they also support full implementation of sharia law? Please do not make me laugh:) If you know about other presidents which visited this place, go on and add them here. Jirka.h23 (talk) 08:55, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * If you know about other presidents which visited this place, go on and add them here. Reductio ad absurdum, Wikipedia doesn't need hundreds of unnotable participations of politicians in anniversaries.Xx236 (talk) 09:35, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * You was the one who stated that tens of other presidents has visited the place. Those two are however very notable, as two representatives of the affected successor countries. Jirka.h23 (talk) 14:06, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Russian army political site opposes "Holodomor myth". Xx236 (talk) 10:00, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Headline of this page: "Был ли голод 1932-1933 годов геноцидом?", translated: "Was the famine of 1932-1933 genocide?" Jirka.h23 (talk) 14:01, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Which other page of this Wikipedia presents (former) presidents of the affected successor countries. BTW Mr Medvedyev played only the role of the president in a country ruled by Putin. Medvedyev's projects regarding democracy and modernisation of Russia completely failed. Xx236 (talk) 07:39, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * For example article Katyn massacre list Vladimir Putin and Donald Tusk to attend a Katyn memorial service in April 2010. But ok, if you hate so much Mr Medvedev, go on and remove his picture, but I see no reason to delete it from the text. Jirka.h23 (talk) 05:45, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

What is the English name?
Probably National museum "Memorial of Holodomor victims" Xx236 (talk) 08:03, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I would say, the National museum "Memorial to Victims of Holodomor in Ukraine". Jirka.h23 (talk) 08:58, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * What is your source? I have quoted the site of the Memorial.
 * Memorial to the Victims of Holodomor in Ukraine National Museum - is it the same? 15-a, I. Mazepy Street, Kyiv, (this Memorial is 3 Lavrska St., Kiev, Ukraine.)

http://primetour.ua/en/excursions/museum/Natsionalnyiy-muzey--Memorial-pamyati-zhertv-golodomorov-v-Ukraine-.html Xx236 (talk) 09:53, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * On top of your site is also stated: Memorial to the Victims of Holodomor in Ukraine National Museum. On official site, if you scroll down, is also stated: "©2012-2015 Офіційний веб-сайт Національного музею «Меморіал пам’яті жертв голодоморів в Україні." Others are: 1, . Jirka.h23 (talk) 14:01, 30 December 2015 (UTC)


 * This is an awkward one. There have been famines in Ukraine prior the one now known as the 'Holodomor', but the word for famine in Ukrainian 'holod' (hunger), with the plural being 'holody'. Prior being dubbed 'Holodomor', the famine was known in the vernacular as being the 'Velykiy holod' (Great famine). 'Holodomor' cannot be plural as there is only one famine known by this name yet, according to Ukrainian Wikipedia, up until August of this year it was known as "Національний музей «Меморіал пам'яті жертв голодоморів в Україні" The National Museum "Memorial in Commemoration/Remembrance of the Victims of Holomors/Holodomor-famines in Ukraine" (holodomoriv being the plural of holodomor!) as if there were two or more known as 'Holodomor'. Russian Wikipedia still uses the plural form as its WP:TITLE: "Мемориал памяти жертв голодоморов на Украине" (golodomorov being the plural of golodomor) per the old naming convention.


 * According to RS such as this and this, the current title is what has been adopted as the English language version of its name.


 * Now comes the big "however": on 3 August 2015, after the conclusion of discussions begun in May, the Ukrainian Ministry of Culture {see article here) recognised this as a misnomer, and a misrepresentation of the use of 'Holodomor'. The name has been changed to Національний музей «Меморіал жертв Голодомору» (The National Museum "Memorial to Victims of Holodomor") in order to distinguish the 1932-1933 famine from the 1921-1923 and the 1946-1947 famines in Ukraine during Soviet times (the latter two being understood to be famines that were the result of catastrophic circumstances/economic mismanagement as opposed to being man made/artificially induced with a genocidal agenda). I'm going to try to find RS for the change of name in English, but the article needs to be moved to the current name, plus reference the change of name and rationale for the change. I'll do this once I find more refs recording the change, as well as establishing whether there is a COMMONNAME for the museum in the English language. I'd prefer not to go WP:OR in translating it myself. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:27, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * So it looks like the name was earlier in plural form - Memorial to Victims of famines in Ukraine ("Меморіал пам’яті жертв голодоморів в Україні"). And was recently changed to National Museum "Memorial to Holodomor victims" (Національний музей «Меморіал жертв Голодомору»). Is that right? Iryna, it would be great if you manage to find some English source, rather than to use our translation from Ukranian, altough I am not against to use it in the article. Jirka.h23 (talk) 06:01, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Memorial in Commemoration of Famines' Victims, not any politicians
Any list of politicians who visited the memorial is unenciclopedic.Xx236 (talk) 10:06, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Not in Wikipedia policy. Btw here is not any list of politicians, but only mention of two most notable representatives of the successor countries, same as for example at Katyn massacre article. Jirka.h23 (talk) 15:41, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * The Katyn massacre informs about the 2010 death of 96 people, it's different.
 * Here is not any list yet, but you have suggested me to add other names to preserve neutrality.Xx236 (talk) 12:08, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I've just taken a fresh look at the article, and the photo really sticks out as making a WP:POINT as opposed to meeting with WP:PERTINENCE. It doesn't need to stay as some sort of 'holder' until a more appropriate image is found, therefore I'm removing it. The only way in which it would be appropriate to use it is to qualify that they are both Holodomor deniers... but such a caption would be WP:UNDUE. The subject of the Holodomor has already been kicked around as a political football so much that using yet another article in such a manner is nothing less than an offence to the memory to those who died (and those who somehow managed to survive it). --Iryna Harpy (talk) 20:37, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
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 * Detail of Holodomor Memorial - Kiev - Ukraine (27031604635).jpg (discussion)
 * Kiev-MonumentVictimsHolodomor1932-33 01.jpg (discussion)