Talk:Nerd/Archive 1

Revert
Reverted some vandilism, not sure I did it right though.

High Functioning Autism
I took out the references to High Functioning Autism in the description part of this page. While nerds may appear to have autistic *traits*, one really doesn't have anything to do with the other. BTW, love your website Brons.


 * Thanks. Been working on it for quite a while.
 * -- Brons 01:22, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

DO NOT MERGE GEEK AND NERD!!!!!

I am a geek freak but I sure as hell ain't no nerd!! My Linux compiling and configuration skills cause many to respect my geek authority but at 6 foot 2 inches and a background in martial arts and outdoor sports anyone calling me a nerd had better know what they're doin'!!

And what is your source that documents the different meanings of the two? Nightscream Sun. 10.9.05. 10:51pm EST.

Source?
"The philosopher Timothy Charles Paul Fuller adopted the term nerd in the mid-1960s to describe a stereotypical intelligent recluse with poor social skills, one often the butt of others' jokes. "

Does anyone know the source of this information? I've tried doing a search for "Timothy Charles Paul Fuller" or any research done by him, but I've come up completely empty handed...


 * My degree's in Philosophy and I've been researching the term nerd and publishing my findings on my [web page] for more than a decade, and I never heard of Fuller. The only references to him on the Web are quotes from this page.


 * Finally, the only other entries that the author of this portion of the page ever made were made the night of 14 Nov 2005 (and early the next morning) and consist of trivial contributions to Fuck and Wanker and an antisemitic addition to [Jew].


 * From all of this, I feel confident that the Fuller reference is entirely spurious. I have removed it.


 * --Brons 02:48, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

untitled
i would rather put bernard from day of the tentacle as an example of a nerd

spock
I have removed spock from the examples section, as he does not really fit the negative 'nerd' stereotype. Not only is he a fairly well-rounded individual, he is well-versed in hand-to-hand combat, and is not at all negatively maligned for his cerebral prowess. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 16:24, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)


 * speaking as a self-confessed geek-girl in the UK (and we tend to see geeks as *far* better than nerds and very sociable, but whatever) I think I probably agree with you, although that they are both 'negative' terms is very mich in the eye (ear?) of the beholder ... some of us are very proud to be geeky! ;-) --VampWillow 17:17, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Nerd vs. geek, redux: Wikinerd
The recent edits by Wikinerd don't reflect either a general consensus of the meanings of the terms, "geek" and "nerd" or any of the dicussed regional usages, but rather the "official definition of nerds, according to the webmaster of Wikinerds.org, NSK." ("NSK", being the user known here as Wikinerd.) I'm something of a newbie, but it seems to me that this is something of an NPOV issue, in that these definitions, lifted straight from the [Wikinerds.org] pages, seem:

1. to be prescriptive rather than descriptive 2. to be intended to advance the agenda of the Wikinerds.org community.

Someone has already removed Wikinerds advert for his web page, but to my mind, the more aggregious problem is the twisting of the content away from objective reportage of the usage of the term that the article has otherwise maintained.

I will confess to having a bit of an ulterior motive in this. Since 1994, I have maintained my own page attempting to explore and document the origins of the term "nerd", an it is hard enough to find solid documentary evidence of the origin of the term in the face of folks who insist that "everyone knows that..." it originated in one paricular way years before the first written documentation, without having to deal with someone who creates and propagates their own definitions here at a site that is widely copied elsewhere on the net.

Any thoughts?

-- Brons 01:44, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Nerd vs. geek
''There are some regional differences in the use of the words "nerd" and "geek". It appears that on the North American East coast the word "nerd" is preferred to "geek", and the meanings of the words are switched (see Ellen Spertus's page on The Sexiest Geek Alive ).''

I live in New York state in the US, and this completely contradicts my experience, i.e. I've always encountered the term "geek" as positive compared to "nerd". Can anyone else in the eastern US chime in either way?

- Korpios 19:17, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm East Coast, and I've always heard both "dork" and "geek" used positivly, and "nerd" being disparaging. Dork being a non-technical geek. One of my favorite quotes from college still is "A geek is a nerd with a social life." -GaidinBDJ 17:59, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * I agree with the above statement


 * I'm going to change the entry to reflect that while some believe that "nerd" is the positive word of the pair on the east coast, other east-coasters dispute that from experience. BTW, I've usually heard "dork" used as something of a playful putdown &mdash; disparaging compared to "geek", but certainly better than "nerd". - Korpios 19:18, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Just for the record, back when I was a boy, in the early 1960s, when I was called a nerd, geek or dork, none of them were terms that were ever used in an positive sense. A "nerd" was a bookish, socially inept type. (Yes, I occassionally taped my glasses and wore a sports jacket to school and in high school was the president of the radio club.) A geek was what you called the weirdo in a carny that bit the heads off of chickens (and who probably looked like Ichabod Crane or Jim Varney aka "Ernest"), and a "dork", like a "dink" was a reference to the male genital organ, but without the implication of diminutive size.


 * I never really heard "dork" used positively. The first positive use of "geek" I ever heard was in the very late 60's. By that time I was a long-haired hippy, and we would refer to ourselves as "freaks", part of the larger group of outcasts collectively known as "freaks and geeks". Personally, I only regarded "freak" as positive. I'd had too many run-ins with carnies to take being called a geek as positive. In the early 90s, I decided that if we were stuck being called either geeks or nerds, then nerd was the more acceptable, due to the Dr. Seuss origin and started my Nerd Web page in '94.


 * The second time I heard "geek" used in a sort of positive light was the subtitle of the comic book "Brother Power, the geek", published by DC Comics. Seemingly, the author had heard the phrase "freaks and geeks" and assumed that hippy flower children used the term "geek" for themselves. No one I knew did. The freaks were the hippies, the geeks were the nerds. Both were outcasts.


 * I heard that the comic was originally called Brother Power, the Freak, but that the company changed the title because they felt freak had too much drug connotations. Btw, the comic also includes a lot of what the authors perceived as hip 60's counterculture-lingo. 惑乱 分からん 15:38, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


 * All this was in New England.


 * --Brons 03:20, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

I use the following definitions and delineations:
 * Nerds know - "I've seen A New Hope 100 times"
 * Geeks care - ''"I've seen A New Hope 100 times, cuz it rocks! and Han shot first and...."
 * Dorks make it a competition -"Actually, I've seen A New Hope 100 times, so I'm a bigger fan than you. So There."

The lesson: Don't go to the dork side ;)  - Dr Haggis - Talk 22:11, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

If you guys merge geek and nerd you will face wrath! Nerds are not geeks!!! Geeks are in all walks of life! You can be a music geek, a computer geek why heck in Billabong Oddysee they even refer to Laird Hamilton as a surfing geek!!

Can someone here please provide a source or reference that establishes the two terms are different? Personal experiences, anecdotes, veiled threats and the personal definitions each of us use are not valid sources for information in an encyclopedia. Nightscream Sun. 10.9.05. 10:54pm EST.

Source for Differences Between Nerd and Geek?
Can somebody explain to me the basis for the section detailing the supposed differences between the two? What, for example, is the source for the statment, "Whatever the society thinks of them, both nerds and geeks are proud for what they are."? What basis does the contributor who added this have for this totally unqualified statment about what every member of an entire group of people have? Unless there is some documentation on this that can be provided (probably with clarifying qualifiers), that entire section should be deleted. Nightscream 9.19.05. 1:08am EST.

West Coast
On the Oregon coast, a nerd is more prestigious than a geek. Also, nerds have more social lives then geeks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.14.150.68 (talk • contribs) 23:33, 5 November 2004


 * I live in the Portland, Oregon metro area, and the consensus here is geek is better than nerd. --KSnortum 06:41, 21 July 2005 (UTC)


 * From southwest washington, "Geek" is more positive, implies more of a social life. Dork is a playful putdown. --The Human Spellchecker 05:19, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

And what are your sources that document this? Without sources, your statements are mere anecdotes and personal perception, and not the referenced facts of which an encyclopedia is supposed to be comprised. Nightscream Sun. 10.9.05. 10:48pm EST

The differences may be generational or situational: "nerd" seems to focus on academic and intellectual achievement in toto, while "geek" seems to focus on extensive - some might say obsessive - interest in one domain or sub-domain of knowledge. In any case, campaigns to valorize one term over the other are most likely violations of NPOV.66.93.32.93 08:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Redundancy With Geek
There's an incredible amount of potential redundancy between the geek and nerd articles; outside of a historical overview, the majority of content in each (especially nerd) applies to both. I'm seriously considering the possibility that the two should be merged. Thoughts? (I'm posting this to the Talk pages of both articles.) - Korpios 08:39, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I agree that they should be merged. Fredrik | talk 09:53, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

As do I. No one I see here is offering any sources or references for the various assertions that the two are different in any way. Nightscream Sun. 10.9.05. 10:49pm EST.

knurd
i know that word form one of terry pratchett's disc-world books (where it's a state of mind you achieve after drinking a very special type of coffee); so i rather doubt that this is a plausible origin of "nerd".


 * Programmers tend to be heavy coffee drinkers...


 * But the word began emerging way before the traditional programmer subculture...

The Discworld books are from the 80's, and we know that "nerd" was in use well before that, so "knurd" is likely a play on the word "nerd" but clearly not the origin. - Dr Haggis - Talk 21:56, 8 October 2005 (UTC)


 * While I tend to agree that "nerd" is most likely the original spelling, as it is clearly documented back to 1951, the claim for "knurd" attempts to trace it back to the end of World War II, and the cultural impact of returning GIs and the resulting "drunk" vs "knurd" social conflict. This theory is strongest at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, with several RPI alumni claiming that it was coined at that school.


 * I think that removing this theory because Terry Pratchett was only 3 at the time of the Newsweek citation is serious over-kill, and propose to put it back in when I have finished with my rewrite of my (own page) on the matter. (Priorities, you know.)
 * Brons 18:37, 27 November 2005 (UTC)


 * You are over thinking this "Knurd" is "Drunk" spelt backwards. It is the state of being taken 'beyond' sober by some seriouly strong klatchan coffee.


 * Being "Knurd" means that you can see the hard edges of the world, rather than fluffy devices that people build up in their heads to sheild themselves from reality. It has nothing to do with nerds, geeks or any kind of real world cultural references.

perfectblue97 --perfectblue 14:24, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Nerd or Geek?
It's interesting. I'm spanish and in spanish language there is only one word to this concept(s): Empollón.

An empollón is a well mother-dressed student, very intelligent, allways with a book and a calculator, who receives all the beats of his peers, and do not respond to them. Thats all. Nothing about his sociability, or the other things.

I was an empollon when child, but i dont know if i fit as geek or nerd, or both, or nothing.

When i reached 17 years old, i grown to 2 meters tall, and nobody wants to beat me.

I allways go with a book or computer, i studied Physics, and i wrote tons of software. I allways be hungry, and i have a very corrosive humor. I can demolite anybody with two or three words. I love human race but hate many individuals (not all), i want to be loved by people, but people dont love me too much. I ALLWAYS help anybody who ask for help, but i will not help anybody who do not ask for help, neither if i think she/he needs it. Sometimes (too many times) i damage the people i love. My phisical look is a complete disaster. My higiene sometimes also. I don't worry people thinks about me at all.

But, the language is the language... What i am? Nerd or Geek?


 * I'd say you're free to pick your title, but I'll ask my Spanish-speaking friend what he thinks.--KSnortum 06:46, 21 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Here's a link discussing whether the word nerd exists in other languages and cultures --KSnortum 06:51, 21 July 2005 (UTC)


 * My Spanish-speaking friend suggested these as possible translations for "geek", although he also didn't think there was clearly one word:


 * Mocoso - literally means snotty, but refers to nerdy kids.
 * Lambiscon - literally means "suck-up" but often used for nerdy kids who suck-up to the teacher.


 * I'd say you are a unique person that doesn't need to be put in a stereo-type. Do everything you can to stay that way.

Bias
Frankly, this article fails the NPOV test by being too pro-nerd. Three times it emphasizes how smart nerds are and it also makes way too much of the reclamation of the term "nerd" by nerds as a supposedly positive term. This trend is hardly a trend. The whole article comes across as an attempt by nerds to improve the reputation of nerds. We would not tolerate such an article about a national, ethnic, political, linguistic, ideological, or academic group. I don't think we should tolerate such an article about this social group. Its emphasis is not sufficiently objective. Tcassedy 23:49, 22 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree. So fix it! ;) I would reduce the definition to 'socially awkward', do something later about the perceived intelligence that goes with the title, and move the reclaiming part to the bottom of the top section. I mean, c'mon, the term's been around since 1950, but the reclaming took place in the "late 1990s". It may be a matter of pride, but why is a definition less than a decade old taking Wikiprecedence over a definition half a century old? Let's be realistic here. (I'd fix it myself, but I'm working hard on a brand new article right now. On the up side, I may have a new picture for this page when I'm done.) -- Wisq 04:30, 2005 May 23 (UTC)

Coup d'état
An anonymous user entered this into the article: Is this true or is someone just trying to associate ideas?--AI 19:03, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * A group of Nerds is often referred to as a "coup d'état".


 * I am leaning towards removing it again, given my previous request to cite a source on this one. It does seem like either a random association, or a highly regional use. The latter is okay (I guess) so long as we establish the location. Either way, "often" does not seem to be the correct term. -- Wisq 20:38, 2005 Jun 7 (UTC)

Caption for the picture
Could someone please add an explanation to the picture caption explaining why that picture was chosen to represent "geek"? Thanks.


 * "Geek"? Are you in the right talk page? &mdash; Wisq 05:54, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)


 * I had the same question (on the geek page). I'll copy this whole topic there. Jryden 18:18, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Depictions in fiction and media
I personally feel it's getting a bit out of hand with all the image linking, not only is it selective and subjective but it's also giving the article a very cluttered feel. I think the pre 19:37, 11 July 2005 article, in relation to the depictions, was a much cleaner article. Maybe we should think about reverting the additions made to the depictions by Zanimum (I believe)? --Bruce 19:08, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

List of Nerds
I moved the clutter to a new page 24.22.227.53 01:35, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Requested merger
Nerd, geek, whiz kid, and probably other articles lurking in the depths of Wikipedia, all describe the same stereotype, or minor variations thereof. It would be better to merge them into one article that primarily treats the stereotype, and in one subsection -- this would be sufficient -- describes relevant terms and their usage differences. (For example, the lead section could begin "A nerd or geek is a ... ; nerd is commonly used to denote a ... ; while geek is more commonly used to denote a ...") If there are indeed separable "geek" nerds and "nerd" nerds, then it should be no problem to discuss on the same page what kinds of nerds exist.

In fact, I think that although the nerd or geek stereotype covers a wide spectrum of personalities, the attempt to assign different meanings to the different terms seems to have originated within the minds of Wikipedia editors. (No sources are cited for the claimed difference, and AHD for example gives virtually identical definitions for "geek" and "nerd".) But the articles should be merged regardless of whether this is true. Fredrik | talk 01:17, 11 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I am strongly against this idea. Although Geek culture have spawned/mutated through the nerd phenomenon, they are entirely separate entities. There is a whole culture underlying the word geek which is not present in nerd. The two obviously need to be linked, but that should happen naturally through the text. Finally, some geeks may take offense =P
 * --Xcen 17:31, 14 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Argh whatever. I fit into geek and nerd categories in example. I think there was never a division between both in the first place. Friggin merge them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.154.119.73 (talk • contribs) 16:05, 14 September 2005


 * I do not agree that geek and nerd should be merged. For one thing, "geek" implies a bit more of an academic focus than "nerd" in general usage, and "nerds" are less socially accepted than "geeks". I speak based on general usage I have seen on the Internet. Tgies 14:40, 20 September 2005 (UTC)


 * The two articles should clearly be merged. No one on this page is giving anything in the way of sources or references that establish the two terms to be different, and my American Heritage Dictionary gives pretty much the same definition, with only two distinctions for "geek": Definition 1a indicates a clumsy or inept person, and Definition b. one accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but regarded as socially inept." I haven't seen anyone here argue for "clumsy," and as for the "scientific or technical" connotation, that is also often used with nerd, and the two are often used interchangeably in casual parlance, as in the phrase "computer nerd". There are many WP articles that have one title, but to which surfers will be redirected when using an alternate word in the search engine, and there's no reason this shouldn't be one of them. If some insist on emphasizing the technical connotations of "geek", then a section on that perception can be provided, one which also notes that the two are used interchangeably.


 * There is a whole culture underlying the word geek which is not present in nerd. --And your documentation or source for this is.....? :-) Nightscream Sun. 10.9.05. 11:03pm EST.

Differences section
The "Differences" section is completely unfounded and one sided BS. Sounds more like a description of a fictional character from a movie. I say it should be completely deleted. Vmicro75 05:38, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Dork
Dork redirects here, but all the dictionaries I've checked define a dork as something pretty different than a nerd - more along the lines of being dull and stupid than smart with specialized knowledge. 71.131.184.183


 * This is my impression as well. It seems to me that "dork" has only the negative connotations of "nerd" (socially awkward and interested in strange things), without necessarily implying intelligence. (Note that my impression may very well be wrong. I don't live a place where the word is actually used.) (Also, etymologically, "dork" means "penis".) SpectrumDT 17:35, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, I was rather surprised when I looked up 'dork' and got here.


 * By the way, the only tiem I have heard about "dork" used for penis was in the Heavy Metal movie. 85.226.122.205 15:07, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * (Anecdotally) Back in the 60's "nerd" and "dork" were more similar in meaning than they are today. A nerd was dull, a square, and a dork someone with a dull wit. Adolescents being what they are, the socially inept are often felt to be stupid, but "nerd" did tend to be someone who was uninteresting and square becuase of their interest in dull things like science and school work. As a glasses wearing presdent of the radio club I was a nerd, but as a small and contempatbly weak object of bullying, a dork. The "penis" aspect was definitely there with "dork" (along with "dink", which because of its similarity to "dinky", had more of an implication of small and inadequate penis). Again, just my impressions of how the term was applied to me in the 60's in New England, but I did have nerdish interest in language even then. Brons 18:45, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Howard Hughes, movie nerd
I've never heard the term "movie nerd" used before - I have heard movie geek, and the geek page does say that a geek includes someone with encyclopaedic knowledge of a particular subject, and mentions music geeks, politics geeks, ham radio geeks, etc. Should a more suitable picture and/or caption be used? -Superiority 09:49, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's certainly an incongruous picture. There was so much going on in Hughes' life that "nerd" isn't necessarily the first thing that springs to mind. I propose a pic of Professor Frink. RMoloney (talk) 20:42, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Above average inteliigence?
Are nerds necessarily of above average intelligence, or is that the common view of them, an easy explanation for their behaviour? Isn't it also the way nerds perceive themselves, as a counterweight for their feelings of insecurity?


 * Are you aware that calling all nerds insecure is about as accurate a generalisation as calling all of them (us) intelligent? Bearing in mind both that this is my own biased experienced and also that nerd is used primarily as a subjective label for one's peers, rather than objectively to describe a recognized social group, I have known people who have been called nerds yet are not insecure, and others who could be described as ... "unintelligent"... yet who undoubtably qualify for every other criterion of "nerd". I personally believe that since the term is technically slang, and is usually applied to persons who display above-average intelligence in pre-secondary education (ie. high school), the reference to above-average intelligence should stand. (Unfortunately lacks an account) 69.198.173.36 04:12, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Nerd as a suffix
The word is commonly used in the context of a suffix and I think that deserves some sort of mention within the page. For example, I am a guitar nerd.
 * That's not actually a suffix, I'm afraid. Furthermore, you may want to say "guitar aficionado". Deltabeignet 22:31, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Adding info about INFP nerds
This subgroup is wholy unrepresented in all nerd media, so I decided to throw in a little blurb about us. Feel free to move it around or something - as long as we're noted somewhere. :) It's not plagarism or something. Please give it some consideration!


 * My only problem with it is that something seems to have gone wrong. I don't understand the contrast between reason and logistical skills. If it was meant to be "logical skills" I am even more confused. Isn't the "F" supposed to stand for feeling? I've been doing some copyediting on the article but left this bit alone because I don't understand it. Metamagician3000 06:36, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Contents Page
This article needs a contents page addy 03:14, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Nerd/Geek
A nerd is someone who is smart in terms of science and math yet socially retarded. A geek is someone who is just socially retarded, but is adept to very technical things such as comic books or computers. A nerd can be a geek and vice versa, which is why sometimes these terms overlap. The cases of each and/or both range from mild to severe, and may sometimes interfer with their social life significantly. That is how each term should be used, if they are to be used at all. Anyone feel free to comment on their insights as well. Lue3378 07:45, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

You can't say that all geeks are antisocial. Though it may seem that way many times it isn't always true! I know several geeks who have very good social skills and, aren't "socially retarted" (though I am slightly...). Also I think of nerd more obsessive studying for school...all A's etc. some geeks are like that but it seems that geeks well...do alot of geeky things that have no connection to school whatsoever. Well thats really all I have to say now...sorry for rambling on so long :X Caleb09 23:16, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Personality theory stuff
I wonder about this whole section. I hesitate to remove it, because I find it quite interesting. However, without some kind of referencing it seems like mere speculation. Even if there is a source for it, the whole Meyers-Briggs thing is controversial among psychologists (FWIW, I personally find it intuitively valid, but I'm not a psychologist and my personal feelings about aren't what matters here). I think this whole section should not only be sourced but also rerwritten in a way that doesn't just assume the scientific legitimacy of such classifications. Metamagician3000 02:28, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

The term nerd as used in other languages
Hi, everyone. I'm from Iceland and over the years the term nerd ("njörður", or more commonly "nörd") has developed from being a derogatory term to describing someone who has much interest in a certain topic. Therefore, one can be a sports nerd, or a music nerd, or a psychology nerd or whatever. Therefore, this doesn't really apply anymore here in Iceland: "...but nerds have interests that are more encyclopedic and are in the fields of science and technology, such as The term is mostly widely used in the United States, but also has some currency in other English speaking countries such as Canada, Australia, and New Zealand." Also, nerds needn't be socially inept, although they may be perceived to be so more often than other people. So I was wondering, has the term changed meaning in a similar way in the English language? And would it maybe be a good idea to discuss the use of the term in other languages? --Heida Maria 01:10, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Seems the consensus would be that you’ve described a geek.Bombot 15:20, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Bombot that you've described a geek (as a geek I would know ;D) but it would be interesting "to discuss the use of the term in other languages" in the geek article and, a little bit on the nerd page even! This would make sense because well you call geeks, nerds in Iceland.

Caleb09 23:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Illustration
if somebody is interested.... I have an image to suggest: http://www.flickr.com/photos/85337969@N00/113670778/ or http://www.flickr.com/photos/85337969@N00/113670777/ The Copyright is mine... can be usefull here ?

maborg Friday, March 17,2006


 * Doubt it. it's just a picture of a pair of glasses... 惑乱 分からん 14:47, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

MBTI
I was under the impression that most psychologists don't use this in their curriculum, and if they do it's as an example of the Wrong Thing to do. It's an interesting theory, but it's purely theory, and it's not scientific. Perhaps references to nerds being of a certain "type" should be removed. We know nerds aren't extraverted (maybe...), but that's about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.211.250.221 (talk • contribs) 13:05, 4 May 2006

As this is theory, and I recognize it as theory, I'd like to say that ENTPs and INFPs, typologically speaking, are in no way related to nerdiness/geekiness. Adding on to this, INTJs- given the webcomic- would be more of a nerd than geeks, and INTPs would be more of a geek than nerds, thus I think this portion needs to be rewritten. I do not believe that types of the MBTI should be excluded from being nerds, but, given the portraits of INTJs and INTPs, to a lesser extent, they would be most prominently associated with nerdiness. Thus, it should be noted that INTJs and INTPs (maybe) should be listed as definites for being nerds/geeks, but other types, though not directly related, should be said as possibilities. 139.55.13.251 02:12, 22 September 2006 (UTC)Sporks.Are.Loverly

Contradiction in "Nerds and geeks"
The section "Nerds and geeks" in the article is confusing. It really ought to be completely rewritten. Personally I have always heard the two words used interchangably, and I was hoping to find an explanation here (or at least a general consensus).

I was going to try to post an analysis explaining just why I think it's contradictory, but after re-reading it at least a half-dozen times I think it may be trying to get across one consistent thought: nerds are interested in pursuing a broad area of intellectual knowledge, while geeks tend to have only one or several specific areas of interest. This seems consistent with the definition of geek at the top of its own article.

If I haven't oversimplified the it too much, perhaps it would be worth re-writing the section with that idea more clearly in mind. I think the problem with the way it's written now is that it tries to explain things several times from different angles, while simultaneously attempting to address the lack of consensus as to the accepted meanings. Perhaps a better approach would be to clearly explain the general consensus, and separately (either before or after) mention the ambiguity and interchangability of the two labels.

Also, I say "general consensus" because I can't imagine the existence of any kind of authoritative work (writings/studies/etc.) on the subject. I could be wrong :)

--HunterZ 00:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

It's Called a DEFINITION!
If anyone is worrying about the "bias" of this article-don't. Part of the definition of being a nerd is being intellectually and acedemically advanced. It's like being a platypus means you're one of the only two mammals that lay eggs. It's a fact of life-if you're questioning the definition of the word nerd you might as well be questioning the meaning of the word "vegetarian" or "cheese." It's the cold hard truth and if you don't want to deal with it, fine, but don't go around accusing us of "wanting to make ourselves look better" or something-we aren't. And just so you know, nerds CAN have friends and they CAN be social, sure, most of our friends are nerds, but that doens't matter. Not all of us are "socially awkward!" And Spock most definetely is not a nerd.

And also, physical attributes have nothing with being a nerd, it's more of a mental state. I can't help it that I don't need glasses or that I'm not skin and bone or all pockmarked! But I am a nerd and I am proud. -Sporks.Are.Loverly —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.55.8.237 (talk • contribs)

Inserting Webcomic Image
I'm inserting a certain webcomic that I believe fulfills the definitions betwixt Geek, Nerd, and Dork quite admirably in that one section entitled Nerds and geeks. DrWho42 04:47, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't agree with the comic (the definetion of the geek part that is). Because that is not how geeks are! I would know because I am a geek! Caleb09 23:37, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Unnecessary paragraph

 * For quite some time in the later 20th century, the term "nerd" was generally considered derogatory, and was a common insult, especially among school-age boys. However, beginning in the late 1990s, many nerds on the Internet reclaimed the word nerd as a badge of pride and began using it as a positive description of a technically-competent person. Although traditionally used to describe men and boys, the terms "nerd" and "geek" have been adopted by many women interested in technology, science, mathematics and other typically male-dominated intellectual fields as badges of their accomplishments in these areas. However, many, if not all, self-styled nerds, even if they possess some of the above prerequisites, do not fit the traditional definition of nerd which also heavily emphasizes social alienation and awkwardness. Dictionaries define the word as one who is "socially inept".

I'm putting this on the talk page. After reading (mostly) the whole article, this needed to be pulled out of the "History" section. It doesn't say anything that isn't said somewhere else in the article. There is some other repetition that needs to come out, but I'll do that for later. --Charles Gaudette 20:50, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Why "citation needed"?
In the "History" section, why is the Fact tag attached to the sentence "The narrator Gerald McGrew claims that he would collect 'a Nerkle, a Nerd, and a Seersucker too' for his imaginary zoo."? Does not the preceding sentence state that this comes from Dr. Seuss's book If I Ran the Zoo? — Michael J 20:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. Snalwibma 17:11, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Did a weirdo write or edit this?
People who chat online or play computer games are not nerds,infact,whoever wrote that is a nerd

8 - P

You are right nerds are all "I love school! Learning is fun!", but geeks play computer games.

?
Ok. So according to this definition are wikipedians nerds?
 * Yes

This article couldn't be any more incorrect.

Polymath?
Well, the article states that nerds often function as polymaths, but I see this to be a tad extreme. Most people, infact nearly all people, are not full-blown polymaths, and thus I think this statement is likely to cause many misconceptions about the true characteristics and distinguishing traits of nerds.

New Picture
Well, it's a lovely picture and all that, but I have several questions: 1. Who put it on? 2. Who says it's correct? 3. Why hasn't anyone taken it off?

I don't think the picture is very relevant to the characteristics of nerds. In fact, I think it really just inforces the common misunderstanding that all nerds are losers with suspenders, pocket protectors, and glasses. We are not. I think that the picture should be removed becuase the concept of the "nerd look" is out-dated and the application is practically non-existent now. Sporks.Are.Loverly 02:37, 18 October 2006 (UTC)Sporks.Are.Loverly

"However, INTJs tend to learn to put on a facade of surface conformism to draw less attention to themselves. For example long hair is, not surprisingly, common with INTP men, whereas INTJ men would keep their hair cut low, and dress conservatively."

Where do you all get this stuff? I find this horribly incorrect just because neither the INTJ or INTP care about the way they look or how others see them.

Wikipedinerds
Shldnt smone put in dat wikipedia is a nerdy site? Coz itZ genrally cnsidered 2 b very nerdy

Posssible synonym?
My personal opinion is that a word is needed to describe a 'technically skilled person', regardless of one's social skills, that lacks the negative connotations or insulting potential of 'nerd' and 'geek'. Something like 'technician' should be popularized; It could apply to nerds and geeks of all flavors - computer power users, programmers, math nerds, academics, as well as people with specialized skills in other areas. It would be generally distinct from the term 'artist', though many technicians are also artists... Just food for thought.

-John McClure 69.150.33.90 05:10, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Ex.
For a ex of a nerd wikipedian, go to my userpage Yashtulsyan 01:29, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Dispute from WikiDaily 04:37, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion, the section describing differences between geeks and nerds contains false (not to mention uncited) information. I dispute the statement "Arguably, a "nerd" is a more self-controlled sort of person, while a "geek" can be something of a loose cannon — or at least more awkward in an obstructive way than a "nerd."" as well as the entire second paragraph of this section. I believe it is the other way around, Nerds (like me) are more into gaming and Trek (and editing wikipedia) while geeks are the academics - (I do recognize that these terms are loose and their definitions tend to be interpreted differently everywhere). What follows is a list of complaints:
 * The statement has no source to back it up yet it begins by saying arguably.
 * The "arguably correct" statement directly conflicts with the preceding statements that describe different factions of thought and the sentence "others view the exact opposite." (this sentence is a bit ambiguous - I suggest rewording)
 * "loose cannon" is an ambiguous term.
 * I believe Nerds are the "loose cannons" so to speak, and likewise geeks are the academic ones and I can site a source... Check out the second item in the list at Wikihow.com.
 * Is this whole section a bit biased? Just a thought.

 SUGGESTIONS (in order of preference)
 * 1) Change to say generally nerds are the ones who tend to "specialize" and geeks are academics, remove ambiguous terms (loose cannon), and shorten first paragraph to say that the definitions of geek and nerd are debatable and have no set definition. (this option solves all problems in my opinion)
 * 2) Delete the entire section. (a shame to see so much information deleted, but perhaps the debated nature of these terms don't belong in an encyclopedia)
 * 3) Shorten the entire section to say that the topic is debated and a clear comparison of nerd and geek can't be made. (This just leaves an unnessecary section with no real information)

No Discussion
Since there has been no discussion and I feel the page needs to be fixed I am assuming the role of fixing it myself...at least temporarily until a full concensus can be reached. WikiDaily 22:03, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Personal Attack?
This article contains the lines,

However, nerds can hide themselves in everyday life, Jason Landis for example matches this perfectly. Jason lives in a small town in Walden, Colorado and suffers from nerditus

This seems to be a personal attack and should be removed.

Teto 06:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)