Talk:New Church of the Theotokos

The Nea and the Madaba Map
I propose to make the following amendments: - 1. "The city's two cardos extend *south* from the Damascus Gate," - NB that east is at the top and west at the bottom. 2. "The street is opened up so that each of its colonnaded *sides* is equally visible." 3. "The Church of the Holy Sepulchre ... is situated perpendicular to the *main* cardo on its western side." 4. "The Nea is the third most *prominent* monument in the city after the Holy Sepulchre and Hagia Sion,"

Now done.Alekksandr (talk) 21:28, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

I'd like more clarification on exactly where it was located?
Like a Map of Modern Jerusalem marking it. I get the gist that it's South-East of the Dormition.--JaredMithrandir (talk) 02:19, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 15 March 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by page mover) GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 23:57, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

New Church of the Theotokos → New Church of the Mother of God – Sources seem to indicate that this name is also prevalent, why being... more English. Chicbyaccident (talk) 16:37, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose not more prevalent neither by number nor quality In ictu oculi (talk) 21:53, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Theotokos is usually used to refer to Eastern churches with that dedication even in English-language sources. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:35, 21 March 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Large unsourced paragraphs due to sparse citation tags, careless editing
Ciaobella623 created this article in one go, doing a tremendous work. He/she stopped editing long ago, leaving us with a conundrum. I don't have the time to check if the text is respecting the rule of always paraphrasing the cited sources (unless using quotes), but this gives great unity to the article. However, the common downside with such approach is that it often means that large paragraphs are based on one single citation tag, and later edits, which split the paragraphs w/o copying the citation at the end of each new part of the former paragraph, leave the impression of unsourced paragraphs. Inserted bits also lead to sentences orphaned of their source, and fixing that is a Sisyphean job (going through edit history, re-reading the sources, etc.). But now that needs to be done now, with the citations added after each sentence, in order to avoid such problems in the future. Any volunteers? Cheers, Arminden (talk) 08:53, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Greek name still needed, Hebrew one less so
Don't see the relevance of the Hebrew name (כנסיית הניאה), so why place it in the lead? I moved it over here, in case somebody finds a proper context for re-introducing it. Also: Google Translate offers "the Church of the Nea", which is just one version, maybe the popular one, maybe not. The Greek name, however, would be welcome, as it was the originally used one. Arminden (talk) 09:02, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Name discussion needed
It seems that the common name in ancient writings was simply "the Nea". Adding the Theotokos to the name might be an academic trait. (We have no article on the naming of churches, opened discussion here, and I don't know anything about that in the Byzantine period.)

All I could find is this:
 * τῆς ἁγίας Θεοτόκου Μαρίας ἡ Νέα ["of the Holy Virgin Mary the New"]

Cited from John Moschus, The Spiritual Meadow, 68. Posted by Julia Doroszewska on 02/05/2022 at The Cult of Saints in Late Antiquity (CSLA) database, University of Oxford. But this is part of a sentence, not an official name, if such a thing existed. Needs figuring out. Arminden (talk) 09:33, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

References: careless editing
Three classic authors are indicated with page, line etc., but with indicating neither the edition, nor an online source:
 * Josephus, The Jewish War
 * Piacenza Pilgrim, Itinerary
 * Procopius, De Aedificiis (Buildings)

Noting this, it becomes suspicious when Tsafrir is cited with two articles, one cited three times ("Procopius and the Nea Church in Jerusalem", 2000) and the other once ("Procopius and the Nea Church in Jerusalem", 1999). The problem is that neither is given an online source, and the reference to the 1999 art. indicates "p. 162" - that is a strange coincidence, as the 2000 art. covers pp. 149-164, so has a p. 162, and while the 1999 art. might indeed be referenced from the book, is most commonly accessed online (old ChristusRex website), where there are obviously no pages. No simple way of checking, since there are no URLs, ISBNs,... indicated, as already said. Mess. Arminden (talk) 14:02, 14 July 2022 (UTC)