Talk:Nicolás de Ovando

Voyage
"The thirty ships carried 30,500 colonists."

This doesn't add up. ~1000 people per ship seems much too high. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.233.189.233 (talk) 08:05, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

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I changed the 30,500 number to 2,500 in Oct 2014. Multiple sources said that was the correct number, and none that I could find mentioned the 30,500, so I figured the 30,500 was probably a typo.

However, I'm not also unsure about the 30 ships. I left it as is, because many sources do say 30, but I found several books with different numbers--(Bartolom de las Casas and the Conquest of the Americas edited by Lawrence A. Clayton, pg 19) says it was 32, and (Columbus and the Quest for Jerusalem By Carol Delaney, pg 202, pub 2012) said 35. I left it as 30, but that may be in question.

(Still figuring out the coding...trying to get the box to stop forming around part of this, so sorry for not being able to put quotes around the book names).

Signed, goldenecho. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Goldenecho (talk • contribs) 19:15, 11 October 2014 (UTC)


 * In this article, Ovando is rightly called the inventor of forced labor for gold and other resources implemented by Spanish on the natives, known as the economienda system. So then why has Wikipedia locked the article on Christopher Columbus, which falsely claims that he implemented it, so that Rafael Ortiz and myself can’t edit and correct it?! Hector557 (talk) 21:42, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Untitled
I concede that the original article was a gross copyright violation. I had put that text there as a stub for planned future work but the copyright violation was detected before I had a chance to expand the text.

I have written a replacement article on the Nicolas de Ovando/Temp page. I'm still working on it but it can be put into Nicolas de Ovando page when the 7 day copyvio period is over.

Richard 17:06, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Replacement article is ready to be put in place of original copyvio article
This article has been rewritten to resolve copyright issues. It is ready to be used in replacement of the original copyright offending article.

Richard 19:33, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

(minor) remarks
But don't refrain from being bold. Piet 08:41, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * This article has been rewritten to resolve copyright issues. It has been placed here in replacement of the original copyright offending article. See the talk page for details. &mdash; I have put this in a comment, better not put information like that in the article.
 * When you create an article that you know still needs a lot of work, you can tag it yourself for cleanup or wikify, maybe that will attract someone else to do the work.
 * If you're almost certain the article is a copyright violation, don't create it in the main namespace but do it under User:Richardshusr/Nicolas de Ovando. You could then create a 3-line stub in the main namespace, and leave a note on the talk page. Or, create the stub and add the original text as an external link. A good stub with very basic information + categories + external links can be very valuable. In any case avoid copyright violations as they create a lot of work for others.

check necessary
The article has very few citations, and I removed one unreferenced bit that seemed probably wrong. I doubt Ovando died in Madrid, although that was the capital, because I think trials for crimes in the colonies were held in Seville. The cited burial site is a monastery in Caceres province, i.e. not very close. Given the charges against Ovando, he might have died in close to house arrest. Or King Fernando wasn't as strict as his late Queen about atrocities against native peoples. I know Spanish people are very sensitive about the Leyenda Negra, but whitewashing the probable sociopaths who went to the New World really doesn't help matters in the long run. If Ovando was a member of a military order, I think he was supposed to take vows of poverty and chastity, not that those couldn't be broken. Or he could have later realized that the torture and ethnic cleansing was wrong, and if so, this article should say so.Jweaver28 (talk) 20:33, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

More to Nicolas de Ovando than talked about
Spanish monarchs Ferdinand and Isabel wrote to Nicolas to allow black slaves of Spain to be used in the Dominican Republic and Haiti. Also, Nicolas was the first political leader to manage the trans-Atlantic slave trade to the Americas. In addition, the Catholic monarchs charged Nicolas with indoctrinating Amerindians and not allowing them contact with Muslims, Jews, or Protestants. The monarchs then banned slaves from North Africa and allowed only "Christian dominion" blacks from Spain or Portugal. Xcws (talk) 06:37, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Change name back to Nicolás de Ovando
Virtually all English-language publications use the name Nicolás de Ovando. There was no justification or references cited when it was renamed Nicolás de Ovando y Cáceres, so I don't know why it was done originally. I propose to move article back to Nicolás de Ovando, per WP:NAMINGCRITERIA. Glendoremus (talk) 21:31, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I've boldly moved it. Thanks for pointing this out. Carlstak (talk) 00:41, 29 March 2019 (UTC)