Talk:Noel Godfrey Chavasse

Let's tell everyone what this man did
Explain a bit more what the man did. Some of these articles are much to dry and boring. This man is to my mind one of the greatest heroes who ever lived. We should not understate his efforts. He is a shining example to all, no matter what nationality we are. Wallie (talk) 11:05, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * all of the above may be true, but is wikipedia's job to praise heroes? It seems to me that (in the realm of biographical articles at least) it is to give unemotional accounts of the lives of notable people. That being the case, there is no need to get overexcited in the lead to an article. All credit to Wallie for being bold, but in this case there is no need to elaborate the intro.
 * should others feel that the intro does have to be more on Wallie's line, could I suggest that phrases like 'supreme bravery' should be sourced back - maybe to the VC citation if they occur there? If we can't find a specific source, it seems as if we are moving into the realms of point of view. I would think that most people would consider Chavasse to be a great hero - but the point is not undebatable. One could argue (i do not) that he was a suicidal maniac. Grblundell (talk) 17:34, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I guess I do get a little carried away, but this guy exemplifies what is finest about human beings. All three double VC winners are special. I think that to get a second VC, it would be reviewed and made far more difficult than for the first one. Captain Chavasse was there saving his comrades under heavy fire. As for the intro, I think it should be more exciting. Some of these articles, expecially the intro, are just plain boring. I think that in special cases, such as this, it should by OK to go a little "over the top". I shall try to rewrite/source along lines more acceptable to you. I think it is an important article. The main point was that he won two VCs in extraordinary circumstances. He died as a result of the second action. The significance of what he did, and the VC itself should be pointed out in the intro. After all, not everyone is familiar with this subject matter, and many will not even bother reading the rest, if the intro is not exciting. Wallie (talk) 18:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * OK. I got a good reference. This is the sort of man I would like to be at my side in a crisis. They don't come any better. Wallie (talk) 21:00, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Copyright problems
Rather large chunks of this artile appear to have been copied verbatim from eg the Oxford Times article, and the www.chavasse.u-net.com website. This needs to be sorted out as we appear to be infringing the copyright of these sources. David Underdown (talk) 15:51, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The Oxford Time article is referenced and cited. Have large chunks of this article really been copied verbatim? Obviously, if the other www.chavasse.u-net.com site has been "overused", then this has to be checked out too. Wallie (talk) 16:39, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The second para of the lead is verbatim from the Oxford Times, we do not indicate that it's a direct quote, so even though there is a cite, that's still plagiarism. Significant portions of the rest of the article also seem to be copied from chavasse.u-net site (on a side note it's not immeditaqley clear that this necessarily meets the requirements for being a reliable source.  16:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Criticism
I came across this criticism of Chavasse's actions in a recent history of the war:

Chavasse was undoubtedly a highly motivated and personally very gallant officer. One has to ask, however, what on earth he was doing out in no mans' land. It is not the job of the [Regimental Medical Officer] to recover wounded: that is the task of the battalion stretcher bearers. The RMO should remain in the [Regimental Aid Post] because it is there that the wounded will be brought, or there that they will report if they can walk. If the RMO is getting himself involved in the action, he is not present at the RAP when he may be needed. It is precisely for that reason that the army insists that the wounded come or are brought to the doctor, and not the doctor to the wounded. Without in any way attempting to detract from Chavasse's personal heroism and self-sacrifice, this author, cynical old soldier that he may be, cannot help but reflect that if he had been Chavasse's commanding officer, then he might have awarded a rocket rather than the Victoria Cross.

--

I think that's a valid point, and worth including in the article, but there isn't really anywhere to put it. I know that "Criticism" sections are frowned upon, but one seems appropriate here. What do others think?

Minor contradiction
The entry for Noel states that he came 2nd in his heat of the 400m in the Olympics and his brother Christopher came third while the entry for Christopher has the results the other way around.

Can anyone confirm which is correct and make necessary correction? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robnock (talk • contribs) 20:55, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, just checked and amazed to find answer seems to have been on Wikipedia already at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_1908_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_400_metres and so I have updated Noel's page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robnock (talk • contribs) 21:00, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

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