Talk:North Macedonia

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 May 2024
delete *North* from title of page 77.28.240.150 (talk) 23:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Please see Naming conventions (Macedonia)   [[User:CanonNi ]]  (talk • contribs) 23:49, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Macedinia is 25,713km2
Who updated this shit? 77.29.143.51 (talk) 12:40, 18 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Do you have a reliable source to back up this figure? –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 04:18, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I found that the figure in the article was unsourced and contradicted both the CIA World Factbook and UN Stats. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 04:30, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Please take a look at this. Thank you.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:32, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Isn't the difference between 25,713 and 25,436 simply the difference between total area and total land area? A difference of almost 300 km² is too much to be just a technical effect of diverging measuring techniques, but it's a plausible figure for the total water area (lakes). My understanding is that our infobox should typically contain the total area, i.e. the larger figure (with the water area given in percent in the next line). Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:19, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * No, the figure of 25,436 km2 denotes the total surface area, which includes both land and water. There’s even a time series of the total surface area measured at different points of time where you can notice that the previous fugure was 25,713 km2.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:59, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Hmm, that's odd. Honestly, I'd be inclined to assume that this is an error on the part of the Makstat website. 277 km² is too big of an area to just "vanish" between one measurement and the next - that's as if you had clipped off a strip of about half a kilometer's width along the edges of the country, along all the length of its borders. It's not as if cartography wasn't advanced enough to allow for measurements much more exact and realiable until just two years ago. On the other hand, the difference corresponds exactly with the figure of 1.1% of water surface that we are still citing to World Factbook – indeed, World Factbook is explicitly giving 25,433 as the land area, almost exactly the same figure as the newly claimed total surface area of 25,436. I'd say it's an easy enough slipup to make, and much easier to explain as such than as an actual change in measurements. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:25, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It’s the official figure published by the State Statistical Office, which is the country’s government agency responsible for publishing official statistics. I don’t know if it’s an error or not, and I don’t know how one can prove if it’s so. The revised figure is used in a government document, a country report published by a German NGO, a research paper published in a peer-reviewed journal and in the country’s article on Encyclopædia Britannica (I was able to find even more research papers and other publications using the revised figure.). Your elaboration based on the total land area of 25,433 km2 published by the CIA Factbook is inaccurate for the following reason. The country has the largest parts of Ohrid, Prespa and Dojran Lakes, whose combined total surface area is 660 km2 (358 + 259 + 43 km2). This translates to a total water area of at least 330.1 km2, which is greater than the total water area of 280 km2 published by the CIA Factbook. That being said, I don’t rely on the CIA Factbook as a more reliable source than a government agency publishing official statistics in any country.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:33, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * update the dumb total land area. Its offical that it is 25,713km2. Only for Macedonia it only writes about land area without lake waters 77.29.146.28 (talk) 09:55, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Please carefully read the discussion above. According to the State Statistical Office, which is a government agency responsible for publishing official country statistics, the total area has been revised from 25,713 km2 to 25,436 km2. If you need further clarification regarding the revision, you can find their contact information on the official website and address your question there.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:54, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

North Macedonia was never under Persian rule
Throughout antiquity, the region where North Macedonia is now located was not part of the Achaemenid Persian Empire's territory. Historical maps from that era do not depict this region as part of the Persian Empire's holdings. Additionally, it's important to note that this region is not synonymous with ancient Macedonia, which was centered further south and included territories that are part of modern Greece. Skyuruka (talk) 15:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I think you're right (it was on the border when the Persians were moving troops by land to invade Greece, or were invading Scythia, but it was never in). However, there are no available maps from that era, only much later retroactive maps. AnonMoos (talk) 16:39, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, I misspoke. By 'maps of that era,' I meant maps showing the Persian Empire of that time. I mean, any map showing the Persian Empire does not include the current region of North Macedonia. Therefore, I suggest that the mention of the country once being part of that empire should be removed from the article. Skyuruka (talk) 04:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC)