Talk:Northern Mariana Islands/Archive 1

Early History Not Covered
As the page I linked to indicates, the islands were inhabitated around 1500 BC by Chamorros, way before the US existed. I therefore find strange that the article does not cover at all history before the US invasion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.82.80.8 (talk • contribs) 2004-07-12T18:06:07


 * Well, the article was probably derived from the public domain CIA factbook. You welcome to update it. older ≠ wiser 23:30, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * This has since been fixed. -- Beland (talk) 04:19, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Name In Official Languages
Most Wiki entries for nations and territories list the name of the country in the official languages beneath the English-language name. What is the Chamorro name and Carolinian name for the Northern Mariana Islands?


 * I am not aware of a name that refers to the islands collectively. Chamorro refer to individual islands by their modern name or a few local colloquial names (e.g., Aguijan is sometimes called "Goat Island"). Ancient naming has been lost, although I am not 100% certain about this with Carolinians in the CNMI. CyberAnth 17:57, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for responding. The Chamorro translation of the U.S. Government's Social Security Fact Sheet refers to the CNMI as both "Islan Notte Marianas" and "Sankattan Siha Na Islas Marianas". Any thoughts as to which is correct? The former certainly seems to be a more direct translation. In the latter, I've deduced that "Na" means "the", but I'm not sure about "Sankattan" or "Siha". Any Chamorro speakers out there that can solve this? If we figure this out, we can add it to the main entry.


 * There is no single official translation, so numerous variation are seen, but the latter one above seems to be the version most commonly used in NMI government publications. "Sankattan" means "northern," "siha" makes it plural, and "na" links an adjective to a noun.

Thank you very much for your explanation. I added the Chamorro name to the main entry. Do you know any Carolinians who could tell you what they would call the NMI?


 * This has since been added. -- Beland (talk) 04:19, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Section edit
There seems to be some problem with aligning the table and still retaining the section edit tags. I've fixed the alignment problems, but the section edit tags have been left out. If someone can find a way to incorporate them, they are welcome. User talk:iKato
 * Not seeing any missing edit links anymore. -- Beland (talk) 04:19, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

ChamorroBible.org
I have removed the link to ChamorroBible.org. While Chamorro is spoken in the CNMI (and Guam), I feel it's Link spam. - HoshieCrat 03:00, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Natives dead

 * Nearly all of the islands' native population died out during Spanish rule,

Why? Disaster? Illness? Extermination? Bad management?

Did they die out or were they shifted around? And define a lot. I know the Germans and Japanese moved Chamorro and Carolinians around the islands, from here to there. --PurplePopple 11:40, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I believe its because of disease. The same thing happened in other Pacific islands, the Americas and Australia -Jcdizon 03:24, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * This has since been added to the article. -- Beland (talk) 04:19, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

The Territory of Guam and Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands
Is there any movement for unification of the Territory of Guam and Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands? Everton 10:13, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
 * AFAIK, there is no current movement for Guam and the CNMI to come together. However, there have been some who have talked about this (see this link; the person who wrote this piece favors statehood for Guam). In 1969, the Mariana Islands district of the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands (TTPI) and Guam voted on a merger. The Mariana Islands district voted yea, Guam voted nay. Since then, there has been no action on this. - Thanks, Hoshie | [[Image:Flag of North Carolina.svg|25px|North Carolina flag]] 02:19, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The article has since up updated with more details about the mid-century merger votes. -- Beland (talk) 04:19, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Proposed WikiProject
There is now a proposed WikiProject dealing with the area of Micronesia at WikiProject Council/Proposals. Any interested parties should add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest in this project to try to officially start it. Thank you. Badbilltucker 21:21, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Imperial German Flag
At the very bottom of the page, as if it were hiding, there is an image of the Second Reich German Flag and the Coast of Arms. I understand the link between the Northern Mariana Islands and German occupation, but does each page linked to Germany have its flag and coat of arms on it?

There seem to be a number of pages that have the flag linked to it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_the_German_Empire.svg

Is this a common practice? If so, ignore my comment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.197.77.130 (talk) 20:36, 30 January 2007 (UTC).


 * Well, the good news is that they're not there anymore. I wonder how they got there in the first place, anyway. How gould you get an image or text down so far on the page? And when I tried to edit the page and remove the flag and coat of arms, there was nothing there. I found that mighty peculiar. --Kschwerdt514 02:20, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The flag is trancluded through Template:Former German colonies (normally hidden) which links to List of former German colonies. --FordPrefect42 (talk) 10:35, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Guam contents irrelevant to NMI
I noticed some Guam-related info not relevant to this entry, such as Sergeant Yokoi and Japanese occupation of Guam. Should these be deleted or moved to the Mariana Islands entry? HkCaGu 00:36, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The history of the two seems intertwined; I'm inclined to leave that content in. -- Beland (talk) 04:19, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Forced Chamorro Evacuation
Amazingly missing in the history portion is that the Spanish forcefully relocated all Chamorros to Guam in order to convert them to the Spanish culture and religion, and that explains why Carolinians are as native as Chamorros in the NMI, since when Chamorros were allowed to return to the NMI, the Carolinians were already there. Can someone look this up and add something to this article? HkCaGu 06:02, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This has since been added. -- Beland (talk) 04:19, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Listing of GW Bush in template
George W. Bush is not "Head of State" of the Northern Mariana Islands, but Head of State in in the Northern Mariana Islands. Listing him in the table as such implies the former and is misleading. We don't list him in invdividual state articles (e.g. California), so why should we list him here?--Jiang 21:53, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Such a listing is standard for dependent territories. -- Beland (talk) 03:38, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This has since been changed to link to the sovereign state, which does seem to make more sense. -- Beland (talk) 04:19, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Chamorro Scouting
Can someone render "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Chamorro? Thanks! Chris 15:04, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Loose labor regulations cause trafficking and forced abortions?
Under Exemptions from some federal regulations it says:
 * "The inapplicability of Federal labor regulations has resulted in some extreme labor practices, not common elsewhere in the United States. Some of these labor practices include forcing workers to have abortions, as exposed in the March 18, 1998 episode of ABC News' 20/20, and enslaving women and forcing them into prostitution, as the U.S. Department of Justice conviction of several CNMI traffickers in 1999 attests." (Emphasis mine.)

Is this a result of the lack of labor regulations? I.e. were these practices that were legal in this territory? The mentioned conviction shows that this was not so for trafficking. I have no idea about forced abortions.

It would seem plausible if the claim was that a lack of federal oversight led to these problems (not saying this is so - just that that would be a plausible causation). Even so, drawing the connection and concluding that B was caused by A is not the place of Wikipedia - speculation. If there are arguments to be made about this, Appropedia or Issuepedia would be good wikis to analyse and debate, rather than here.

I will tone down the wording, breaking the implied causality. --Chriswaterguy talk 10:05, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Very good edit. Either the federal government or the CNMI government could have prosecuted if there was adequate enforcement and the violations were known to the right people. The "inapplicability" really only mattered in terms of wage--I've seen USDOL prosecutions on employers not paying overtime. It doesn't matter it was $3.05 per hour; if you didn't pay them 150% or $4.58 per hour after 40 hours, the feds can still go after you.

Now in both Saipan and Northern Mariana Islands a lot improvements can still be made to update the recent changes. For example, Tan Holdings (the biggest company/conglomerate in the CNMI) was among the violators in the class-action suit, but in recent years they have the better working conditions among all the factories, especially how they handled their closures (gave out a million bucks they didn't have to, compared to some who just walked away owing back wages). Both the improvement in the garment industry's work environment and the demise of the industry are probably mentioned, but not balanced with the historic negatives in both articles. HkCaGu (talk) 17:16, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

The following is still not acceptable: "However, the lack of labor regulation is not without controversy.

Some extreme labor practices, not common elsewhere in the United States, have occurred. Some of these labor practices include forcing workers to have abortions..." (original wording) It still implies a causal relationship when in fact these practices are mere criminal endeavors. The use of force to effect an abortion or coerce women into prostitution is already illegal. When such things happen in highly regulated labor markets, we do not conclude that the regulations should have been stricter yet. There is simply no causal relationship here. The simple fact that trials resulted from these violations indicate that the Law (criminal Law) was already covering such actions. I suggest the wording be changed to something such as: "However, the lighter labor regulations are not without controversy.

Some illegal labor practices are known to have occurred..." (proposed changes) 77.193.184.76 (talk) 22:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Is it just me, or..
does this country have the *ugliest* flag ever? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.169.159.174 (talk) 20:06, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Talk pages are for discussing the article, not sharing general opinions. -- Beland (talk) 19:12, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Not related to the above comment, but " the garment industry is expected to become extinct by 2009"? Is it just me, or...hasn't 2009 already ended? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.82.131 (talk) 13:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * This has since been changed. -- Beland (talk) 19:12, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Unsourced quotes
I removed unsourced quotes from Northern_Mariana_Islands. Superm401 - Talk 02:59, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Federalization
I'm too busy to write, but Congress has passed and the President has signed the new law taking over CNMI immigration in the next year and establishing a congressional delegate this fall. Adding to that the garment industry is more than half gone, anyone please feel free to update this article (and maybe Saipan too). HkCaGu (talk) 17:24, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Added Latitude and Longitude to Infobox:Country
Added the capital city Lat / Long. to the infobox to keep uniform style with other country/territory articles.

I am using the coordinates 15°10′51″N 145°45′21″E, from the Saipan article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.42.103 (talk) 21:04, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Spanish possesion during four centuries
Northern Mariana Islands was a Spanish possesion during almost 400 years, then a German possesion during 21 years, then a Japanese possesion during 25 years, then an American possesion during 66 years, currently and still counting. For coherence, I have substituted "Spanish possesion" for the vague subtitle "European explorers". By the way, all of those early explorers were Spaniards, or sailed under Spanish flag.
 * Zack Holly Venturi (talk) 10:20, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Immigration Laws of the CNMI covenant was unilaterally revoke by the U.S. Congress
I included this information on the article:

In 1976, Congress approved the mutually negotiated Covenant to Establish a Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI) in Political Union with the United States. The section 603 (a) of the 1976 Covenant; that indicates that the Commonwealth is in charge of its own Customs and Immigration was unilaterally revoke by the U.S. Government in the 2009.

Transition to U.S. Immigration Law began November 28, 2009 in the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI). CNMI's immigration laws have been replaced by the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) and other U.S. immigration laws. --Seablade (talk) 04:10, 15 December 2010 (UTC)


 * CNMI still runs its own customs. Immigration control is what they lost. 603 is under "revenue/taxation" and only mentions customs. HkCaGu (talk) 18:14, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

My error, You are right, the U.S. Congress unilaterally revoke or supersede and replace all laws, provisions, or programs of the Commonwealth covenant relating to immigration, the admission of aliens and the removal of aliens from the Commonwealth in the 2009. Not the section 603 (a).

Under the Title VII of the Consolidated Natural Resources Act of 2008 (“CNRA”),1 the Immigration and Nationality Act (“INA”) took effect in the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (“CNMI”) beginning on November 28, 2009. This memorandum contains information on the transition and on issues that may arise in cases involving respondents in the CNMI.

Prior to November 28, 2009, the INA did not apply in the CNMI. Rather, a separate immigration system existed in the CNMI. This system was established under the Covenant to Establish a Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands in Political Union with the United States of America (“Covenant”), which was signed in 1975 and codified as 48 U.S.C. § 1801. The Covenant was amended by the CNRA, thus altering the CNMI’s immigration system. Specifically, CNRA § 702(a) amended the Covenant to state that “the provisions of the ‘immigration laws’ (as defined in section 101(a)(17) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(17))) shall apply to the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands.”2 Further, under CNRA § 702(a), the “immigration laws,” as well as the amendments to the Covenant, “shall. . . supersede and replace all laws, provisions, or programs of the Commonwealth relating to the admission of aliens and the removal of aliens from the Commonwealth.” On November 30, 2009, the Executive Office for Immigration Review opened an immigration court in Saipan, CNMI. Immigration court proceedings for respondents in the CNMI are being conducted at the Saipan Immigration Court.

Reference: U.S. Department of Justice Memorandum --Seablade (talk) 02:16, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Colony of the USA
Are the Mariana Islands a colony of the USA as in Puerto Rico? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eramirezt (talk • contribs) 05:00, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Technically the United States doesn't have colonies. They are called "territories". And yes, the Northern Marianas are under the United States Federal Government and not as a state.  As such it is fair to call it a "colony", and lump it in with Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico, provided that one recognizes that each such territory is governed separately and with a different relationship with the United States Federal Government.  If the Northern Marianas wanted to be independent, it probably could be, like other former members of the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands who are in a Compact of Free Association--Bruce Hall (talk) 13:26, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

official languages
castilian -spanish (sic)- lost its official status at the end of the spanish rule and has never gained it back. There are no minorities either that had kept it even residually as a patrimonial language. The only official languages these days are carolinian, chamorro and english, so i am deleting the reference to spanish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.49.187.6 (talk) 12:41, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

1 of 2 US Commonwealths?
"The Northern Mariana Islands, officially the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI), is one of the two Commonwealths of the United States of America, the other being Puerto Rico."

What about the Commonwealths of Virginia, Mass., Kentucky and Pennsylvania? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.80.29.161 (talk) 04:05, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * We're talking about what they are, not what they call themselves. HkCaGu (talk) 05:59, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * This sentence has since been rephrased to avoid claiming there are two commonwealths. -- Beland (talk) 20:51, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

"Lawyers must wear shoes"
I've removed a sentence about there being a specific local court rule requiring lawyers to wear shoes, citing to a supposed Local Rule 83.3. I find no such rule among those on the court's website and suspect the sentence is a sarcastic cultural commentary. In the unlikely event that such a rule can be substantiated, someone can reinsert such a sentence, assuming it would be worth mentioning in the first place. Wbkelley (talk) 06:19, 23 October 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't know where you were looking, but it took me a few seconds to get this: Local Rules. Local rule 83.4 (as it is now numbered—it's been a few years) appears on pages 91-92.  Subsection (e) provides: "Proper Attire. All attorneys appearing in open court must be suitably dressed. Minimum acceptable dress for male practitioners will consist of a jacket, dress shirt, necktie, dress slacks, socks and shoes. Minimum acceptable dress for female practitioners will consist of a dress or suit, slacks or skirt and blouse, and shoes. The Court may refuse to hear attorneys whose appearance does not conform to this Rule."  It's actually pretty well-known among lawyers.
 * This sort of rule applies to most or all courtrooms, so I don't think this is worth noting. Picking out shoes makes it sound like lawyers were trying to show up without shoes, which seems unlikely. -- Beland (talk) 20:51, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 01 April 2014

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved. walk  victor falktalk 02:13, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Northern Mariana Islands → Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands – That's the official name. Banaticus (talk) 04:13, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

Discussion
Oppose. Per WP:COMMONNAME. HkCaGu (talk) 04:29, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
 * CNMI is more common. Banaticus (talk) 05:06, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
 * CNMI is more common than NMI, but Northern Mariana Islands is more common than Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands. HkCaGu (talk) 05:46, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Oppose. If that was the case, then should we move Mexico to "United Mexican States", Rhode Island to "State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations", Pennsylvania to "Commonwealth of Pennsylvania", etc... Not to mention the countless variations with other countries native languages (Germany=Deutschland, Japan=Nippon, Spain=España, etc...). Sorry, but the common names in English for the English articles win out. Jgera5 (talk) 05:30, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Support clearly distinguishes between the geographic feature and the political entity. -- 70.24.250.235 (talk) 09:19, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:CONCISE, which actually lists State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations as one of its examples. bd2412  T 16:18, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose in line with wp:common name and wp:official name. CMD (talk) 16:57, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose as per CMD above. Zarcadia (talk) 17:33, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
 * 'Oppose. But it's not the common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:53, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 10 one external links on Northern Mariana Islands. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110926172413/http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?cat=1&newsID=112164 to http://www.doi.gov/oia/islands/cnmi.cfm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110926172413/http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?cat=1&newsID=112164 to http://2010.census.gov/news/pdf/cb11cn178_ia_cnmi_totalpop_2010map.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110926172413/http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?cat=1&newsID=112164 to http://www.pacificmagazine.net/news/2008/05/26/sablan-will-stand-for-nmi-delegate-position
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060906220747/http://net.saipan.com:80/personal/vanlanen/info/info_pg4.htm to http://net.saipan.com/personal/vanlanen/info/info_pg4.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060614104551/http://www.doi.gov:80/oia/Islandpages/cnmipage.htm to http://www.doi.gov/oia/Islandpages/cnmipage.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110926172413/http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?cat=1&newsID=112164 to http://www.justice.gov/eoir/vll/benchbook/tools/CNMI/CNMI%20Memo%20(3-29-10).pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110926172413/http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?cat=1&newsID=112164 to http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?newsID=96195&cat=1
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110926172413/http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?cat=1&newsID=112164 to http://www.mvariety.com/calendar/september/19/frontpage/front01.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110926172413/http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?cat=1&newsID=112164 to http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?newsID=103448&cat=1
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110926172413/http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?cat=1&newsID=112164 to http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?newsID=112164&cat=1

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How does one say/write "Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands" in Carolinian (Refaluwasch)?
allixpeeke (talk) 23:17, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
 * This is now in the intro. -- Beland (talk) 20:51, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090509002032/http://www.cnmilaw.org/aboutcnmi.htm to http://cnmilaw.org/aboutcnmi.htm
 * Added tag to http://cnmi.humanities.org.mp/encyclopedia/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130117082659/http://www.doi.gov/archive/oia/Islandpages/cnmipage.htm to http://www.doi.gov/archive/oia/Islandpages/cnmipage.htm

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Capital Hill or Capitol Hill ?
Is the capital of the Northern Mariana Islands "Capital Hill" or "Capitol Hill"? Please weigh in at Talk:Capital Hill, Saipan if you care. —  AjaxSmack  22:58, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Renaming of United States Territory (Commonwealth) section
I have reverted the WP:BOLD recent renaming of this section by an anonymous editor as United States possession, named as "United States Territory (Commonwealth)" in favor of discussion here. The section had been renamed in this edit, which had an edit summary saying: "Spanish Possession, German possession, Japan possession, United States possession, seems right. To anyone who knows how to spot the 'odd one out' this is more correct than giving a different name for the United States Possession. Or how about we decide, should we 1) use a common naming convention for all historical periods, or 2) call ALL the perdiods by according to the name the occupiers gave? Isn't Wikipedia all about conventions?"

I think the point about consistency is a good one. I propose the section be broken into two separately named sections, named United States possession and Commomwealth with the United States, with the two sections covering the relevant periods. Objection? Discussion? Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 21:43, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea. Go for it.  NewYorkActuary (talk) 23:00, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

I see that user:1.65.170.244 -- the anonymous user who had made the change described above -- has now, without participating in this discussion, changed the heading of the subsection being discussed here to read United States possession without dividing the subsection into two separate and separately named subsections as I proposed above. The new subsection heading is more consistent with the headings of other subsections of the History section than recent previous headings for this subsection, and the body of the subsection consists of just one reasonably short paragraph. As I have no objection to the current heading and considering the current shortness of this subsection, I withdraw my proposal above. I have placed a message at User talk:1.65.170.244 asking that anonymous user to join this discussion if he intends further edits to this article. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 21:48, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

East or West?
I had made an edit removing "The CNMI and Guam are the westernmost territories of the United States." because the longitude of the islands ranges from 145.61998 to 145.7545 _EAST_ not west.

BUT if we are going to be accurate, _only_ Guam is the westernmost as CNMI is closer to the US mainland.

My question: Is it relevant to include this info? Or because of the confusion of EASTernmost and WESTernmost, should we just drop the topic??

I'm open to discussion...so let's hear it!

P.S. My removal of the sentence may have been influenced by finding that the editor who originally placed it is now blocked.

WesT (talk) 18:38, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Hello!

Well, I think that the GIS location information is "just" referenced to the 0 degree longitude.

The fact that CNMI and Guam are located at the "east" side of the globe, does not necessarily mean that these islands are to the "east" of USA.

In fact, I am here because I looked for how to contribute to the article without actually doing myself the editing, when saw the "easternmost" thing, and immediately thought: that should be fixed to westernmost.

So, Guam seems to be the westernmost territory of the USA, and CNMI the second one; so, both seems to me that are the westernmost territories of the USA.

It is not indeed a critical information, but I think it is a nice one.

Bottomline: I think it should stay, but should say westernmost.

I am glad to find the discussion on this topic.

Best regards Astrompg (talk) 01:12, 18 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks for bringing this up. The page List of extreme points of the United States employs the relative defintion of "easternmost" and "westernmost", so I have brought the info in line wth that page. I did the same with the page Guam last year, and adding the wikilink to the page "List of extreme points of the United States" has proven succesful in resolving the ambgiuity. –Austronesier (talk) 11:08, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Situation of working women / the Jack Abramoff scandal
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abramoff#Saipan_and_Northern_Mariana_Islands -- the Northern Mariana Islands have been in the news this past few years, revealing what sounds like a terrible situation for women factory workers (sweatshops, sexual exploitation, forced abortions). But apart from one external link (a "Fresh Air" radio show on NPR), that situation isn't mentioned in this article. I would have added a line or two myself, but I have no idea what's going on at present. It's easy to find news media coverage of the Abramoff scandal as a scandal, but I haven't seen any up-to-date coverage of the situation of these women (which says something sad about the priorities of the general news media, I think). -- DSatz 12:49, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * You will not find such things mentioned in the local press unless they have no choice to mention them because an outside group has again addressed the issue. You will usually only hear positives about improvements. It is self-censorship to improve image. The link to Ms. Magazine, the NPR, and http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/24/017.html do depict the situation pretty well. CyberAnth 17:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * This now seems adequately covered in this article and Saipan. -- Beland (talk) 19:05, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Villages
It would be nice to have a list of villages by population. -- Beland 00:08, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Also, this article need a map of the municipalities of the islands. I can't seem to find one anywhere, even by a Google search. Kristoffer &#34;Wiki&#34; Winkler (talk) 02:15, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * There is already a map of the islands, and each of the four municipalities listed in "administrative divisions" comprises of one or several islands. HkCaGu (talk) 18:54, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I found some USGS maps showing not only villages but individual buildings, so I uploaded them and added them to Tinian and Rota (island). Saipan already had one, which is how I tracked them down. Commons had good maps showing municipal boundaries, so I also added those. -- Beland (talk) 19:42, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

As for population of sub-municipal villages, I think that data is here but it's been a bit difficult to extract. Defunct election districts are used as minor civil divisions, but I'm hoping there's more than that. (1980 census map by district) -- Beland (talk) 02:19, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Abbreviations
Why are NMP and MP abbreviations for the Northern Mariana Islands? What does the "P" stand for? --FordPrefect42 (talk) 10:31, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Never heard of "NMP", but I've heard "MP" stands for "Marianas Pacific". According to United States postal abbreviations it used to be "CM" before 1988. There aren't a lot of second letters available after "M", so "P" might have been the best choice.HkCaGu (talk) 17:16, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry, NMP should read MNP, my fault. Thanks for the answer so far, "Marianas Pacific" sounds okay (what about inserting that info in the article?). --FordPrefect42 (talk) 22:54, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

The original postal code "CM" proved confusing because it was an international postal code for Cameroon; apparently a lot of our mail was ending up in Africa. "MP" (some say it stands for "Marianas Pacific," but that may just be a memory device) was therefore adopted in its place, since other, more obvious, choices were also already taken: "NM" (Northern Marianas) by New Mexico and "MI" (Mariana Islands) by Michigan. "CM" is still used in some other contexts, however, such as boat registration numbers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.128.25.248 (talk) 07:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I added some background to the article, though citations are still needed. -- Beland (talk) 19:10, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Do residents of the Northern Marianas need visas to travel to the Schengen Area?
The Schengen Agreement encompasses much of Europe, e.g. France, Germany, Italy and many other countries. The article [European Union visa lists] asserts that the Northern Mariana Islands is an "annex 1" territory, meaning that its citizens require a visa to enter the Schengen area. Apparently that's because the Northern Marianas appears in the list on page 10 of this document. Is this true in practice? There's some discussion of this at Talk:European Union visa lists. --Mathew5000 (talk) 10:43, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Population
Unless I'm missing it in my quick glance through, there's no explanation of:


 * what is the number of US citizens vs foreign workers

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.202.198.106 (talk • contribs) 21:07, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * what is the visa status of the foreign workers (temporary guest worker permits, permanent residency) and eligibility for eventual US citizenship
 * how this relates to the female-to-male ratio

Government, sub catagory Military
There is no mention of any military facilties within the island group, who is responsible defense, and if any local militia are presently operational. An article from the 19OCT2001 'Stars and Stripes' indicates that the Commonwealth request Congress pass a law allowing it to establish its own department within the National Guard. As far as my searches go, it appears that the Commonwealth has no standing armed forces, even at the militia level, and all defense is the responsibility of the Federal Government.--207.114.206.48 (talk) 03:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

What Filipino languages are spoken?
There are dozens of Filipino languages. Which one is or ones are spoken in the Northern Marianas? One of the official languages of the Philippines is a form of Tagalog and is called "Filipino". --Bruce Hall (talk) 13:17, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Informal name(s)
Is the CNMI informally referred to locally as 'the Marianas' or 'the Commonwealth' or somesuch? If so, might be worth putting it in the intro (or adding an etymology section and putting it there).WisDom-UK (talk) 20:15, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

"MP" abbreviation origin
I can't find a good source for what the abbreviation "MP" means, but here was some internet speculation: "It seems strange that MP was chosen for the Northern Mariana Islands, but it's believed that the MP stands for Mariana Pacific." If this could be confirmed in reliable sources, it should be added on the page since there's no p in "Northern Mariana Islands", and US state & territory abbreviations don't usually use a letter that isn't in the name of the place, and readers will be confused by this peculiarity. Geographyinitiative (talk) 00:35, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Spanish
Spanish language in the Northern Mariana Islands. Mercedarian Missionaries in Saipan speak Spanish and teach the language. There are also Spanish courses at the College. https://www.guampedia.com/mercedarian-sisters/#:~:text=Sisters%2C%20Guam%20collection.-,Settled%20on%20Saipan%20first,in%20Guam%20beginning%20in%201962. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.17.68.21 (talk) 14:12, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, that link doesn't support the claim that Spanish is a language of the Northern Mariana Islands; it also doesn't mention that the sisters use or teach Spanish. That Spanish is taught at Northern Marianas College also doesn't support the claim. The current text says that Spanish is no longer commonly used and that some elders have it as a third or fourth language, which is supported by this source. Can you add reliable sources that support your addition and expand on or revise the current text? —Carter (Tcr25) (talk) 18:35, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

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