Talk:Northern mockingbird

comment
Theocrats and ultra-liberals like mockingbirds and portray them with deceptive veneration, such as by calling their vulgar, simple, and repetitive chirp formations 'singing', and suppressing all of the damage that mockingbird chirping has done to society, due to stress-related health effects, drowsiness-induced automobile accidents and other accidents, distraction-induced accidents, heart-attacks (particularly in people with heart conditions), and suicides (particularly in depressed people). The people who's activities are most disrupted by the crude mockingbird chirping are people of fine character (as contrasted with crude character) - that is, people who are deep, distant, rational, and inquisitive -the greatest of people, whom the mockingbird supporters, such as the wikipedia users Jimfbleak and Smyth, regard as enemies. Mockingbirds are hardly a neutral subject


 * source for above rantings please? Also, song is a technical term that does not imply musicality, the "caw" of a crow is its song, jimfbleak 9 July 2005 13:45 (UTC)
 * Quote the mockingbird: "really really gonna f*** your sh** up" 75.82.212.181 (talk) 02:42, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Reply
Ah, the tactic of discrediting statements (calling them 'rantings' here) so as to prevent people from considering them and in turn seeing their truth. My source is life experience and talking to people around the neighborhood and on the internet about their opinions and experiences regarding mockingbirds and what they are willing to do about them, which I initiated after said birds had bothered me for some time. I was initially surprised by the patterns that I found regarding character traits and political affiliations and how people were effected, and the notably malicious affect (facial expression and tone of voice) of the many mockingbird supporters that I met personally, but then I realized that the correlations make sense because the tone of voice of mockingbirds and the disruption of the subtle beauty of the darkness and silence of the night corresponds to the tone of voice and crude character of the people that support them. By the way, if 'song' is the technical term, then it is a biased and inaccurate term and should be boycotted. Also, why did you delete my addition that the mockingbirds' air loops are territorial displays?; that is a widely accepted fact. I'll write that fact back in unless you have any objections.


 * I don't think you can object to "ranting" when you launch personal attacks on the characters of other contributors. jimfbleak 05:28, 10 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Not him, but there is no such thing as a "personal attacks", there are only those who take it personally. Either way, the actions you take may not be the best in response to the situation at hand. Two negatives don't actually make a positive. 75.82.212.181 (talk) 02:53, 20 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Exposure of the truthful malicious motives of particular behaviors is socially constructive, being a far cry from a rant. That's 'detractors', not 'contributers' (in this case).


 * If you're trying to make fun of the typical Wikipedia edit war, then well done, but please go and do something constructive. And you see the button when you're editing a page marked "Show preview"? Please use it. – Smyth\talk 21:31, 10 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Ah, now Smyth is trying to discredit my statements and thus prevent their consideration by falsely portraying them as a joke and non-constructive. Evidently Smyth has not challenged my statements themselves because he knows personally that they are correct. Saying that I am merely joking also gives him false pretense for removing the NPOV tag of a disputed article, a gross violation of wikipedia policy. I have to admit, that's a clever tactic.


 * Please sign and date your talk page contributions by adding four tildes (~) at the end. Regarding the NPOV tag, it appears to be up simply because one user thinks that the call of the mockingbird is not songlike. It also appears to be correct that "song" is a term of art in ornithology and refers boradly to the vocalizations of birds, however unpleasant they may be to human ears. (Heck, I've heard some Heavy Metal music that is less songlike that a crow). Anyway, unless there are some legitimate NPOV issues we should remove the tag. -Willmcw 01:37, July 11, 2005 (UTC)


 * Also, please try to be more moderate in your writing, or people will think you are some sort of a crank, and be more likely to revert you than they would be otherwise. – Smyth\talk 09:46, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Seriously, how can anyone not like the Northern Mockingbird?! Such a beautiful, colorful, bold, type-A bird. A tireless singer and tireless defender of its territory it is fearless and will attack whatever is a threat be it cat, dog, hawk or person. I would even vote for it to replace the Bald Eagle as the national bird - it is the proverbial underdog that thrives. User:dojodan
 * They don't like them, because in my opinion, this country is filled with wicked, wicked people. The bird is actually smarter than them. Yes, nature can become highly comedic. 75.82.212.181 (talk) 02:57, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

"Special protections"
The Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 USC Title 16 Chapter 7 doesn't mention mockingbirds. What I could find on the history of the act doesn't either; I found mentions of plume hunting and the Snowy Egret, as at http://www.audubon.org/states/fl/fl/main/timeline.htm and http://www.tigerhomes.org/animal/snowy-egret.cfm. So I took out the claims that mockingbirds get special protection under the MBTA and that it was written to protect them more than other species. If anyone puts those back in, please include a source. &mdash;JerryFriedman 20:55, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, mockers have the same protections as other migratory birds, no more and no less. We have a brief explainer on our site with regard to migratory birds, including the sources for the definitions under the Act (second question from the bottom). Since our site is CC-BY-NC-SA, we can't mingle our text into Wikipedia, but someone else can revise the article accordingly. Sandtouch (talk) 01:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

"Further Reading" Section
The "Further Reading" section in this article seems to be quite extensive to say the least, but could it be getting too long? It's already much longer than the article itself. I believe it may need some revising, and some of the resources may need to be removed. Does anyone have any comments or suggestions? Mears man 00:57, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:UTC MOCS mascot.jpg
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Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood
I beg to differ with the following section, removed from the Mockingbird in US Culture section: Unless there was an alternate version of the song I'm not aware of, his wooden bird was Troglodytes aedon, as mentioned at House Wren. Lusanaherandraton (talk) 07:33, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * In the PBS series Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood, King Friday XIII made a pet of a wooden bird on a stick, who he called Mimus polyglottos. This stick-bird moved up and down when it spoke to King Friday, but it spoke in musical chimes that only the members of the show could understand.  King Friday would often sing a detailed song to his bird, with the repeated lyrics "Mimus polyglottos is my pet.." and ending with "Have you met my pet yet?"

Too many pictures
This article has more pictures than it needs. 1 generic picture near the top is required, any other pictures should be specific to the section they are in. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)  21:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe these could help. More on the way. (Self-interest disclaimer: We made all of those photos and songs.) Sandtouch (talk) 01:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 9 months later, the article still has the same problem. There are a couple of flying mocker photos on Commons that could be used in this article to provide context. We just put one up showing the wing bars, and commons:user:Stickpen has an awesome shot of a mocker mobbing a hawk. Sandtouch (talk) 22:20, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * After user:JerryFriedman's edits of April 11, 2009, the article is much better. Previous criticism withdrawn. :) Sandtouch (talk) 21:01, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I would like to add to this discussion that the picture underneath the caption "Northern Mockingbird" and above the conservation status is quite misleading. The angle of the photo makes the bird look shorter, fatter, and seem to have a shorter bill than it does. If you enlarge the photo you can see that it is a mockingbird; it's simply a poor picture to demonstrate the species. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deejaye6 (talk • contribs) 17:04, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Made significant edits to the article
I've recently made significant changes to the article, and I am not through with it yet. It still needs a lot of work (Added systematics/taxomony segment, rearrange and delete unnecessary photos, more citations, and rewriting total sections, etc.), but I needed to place the changes that I've done for today, since there is a chance I might not get back to it for today. If you'd like to help find citations or rewrite the article where needed, contact me on my page. LeftAire (talk) 22:55, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

More information added to the habitat and behavior sections
Hello! I am writing for a project of my behavioral ecology class. I added some recent research findings on the adaptation of northern mockingbirds to the urban habitats. I moved the original behavior-related topics under a "behavior and ecology" section and added a couple of new subsections. I also moved the "Youth" section from behavior to description and deleted the "social behavior" heading while moving its content to the opening part of behavior section. I would like to hear from you any suggestion or feedback you may have. Thank you so much! Let's make the entry better together!--Tianyi Cai (talk) 05:45, 16 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Before I read your comment above, I copy edited this and moved some of the sections again! Thanks for your useful and extensive additions. I've changed the capitalisation of headings and bird species to the MoS and project standards (Full caps for bird species, but not for headings, removed a bit of pov and unsourced and removed the gallery (should be on Commons  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  07:07, 16 November 2012 (UTC)


 * This article is well written and I think that it flows well. I edited a couple sentences that I thought weren't clear. In addition, I also added some punctuation to increase the clarity of some sentences. I have one minor suggestion; the reference section could be formatted into two columns so that it doesn't take up so much space. I tried to do it but it messed with the formatting of the External Links. This of course isn't crucial to change just cause it doesn't have any real impact on the article. I know that the project is pretty much over, but it'd be interesting to read more about the nest defense mechanisms. This is just something to think about if you wanted to add more information. Great article Jeremy.winkler (talk) 21:09, 19 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Tianyi Cai, you did a great job with the article! I made some wording/ grammar edits and rearranged some bulkier sentences. I also took out your use of "cuckold" under Parental Care, because I think you meant "parasitize." Also, could you just briefly mention, under Sex Allocation, why male offspring usually require greater parental investment? Is it because male chicks are slightly bigger than female chicks? Good job! Ihyuan (talk) 13:41, 20 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Tianyi Cai, nice work on the Northern Mockingbird behavior sections! At this point, many reviews have touched on the writing and flow of this piece, and the article is really informative. I added some minor grammar corrections and also added in a couple links to the article. To echo the above comments, it would be nice to explicate the defense mechanisms that these Mockingbirds employ, as would more referenced information on investment differences in male and female hatchlings. In addition, in the sections about calling and intelligence, I was left wanting more examples of their mimicry and learning of sounds. For example, it may be very interesting to post sound clips of these birds mimicing some sounds, or play them next to the actual sound. In addition, it would be nice to see literature (if it exists) and which sounds these birds will pick up across their lifetimes, and if those learned chirps are adaptive in any way. Hope to see this article keep on progressing! Good work so far. Nsavalia23 (talk) 23:35, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Good Article Nomination
This article has actually been contributed to by a fellow classmate of mine. When I viewed the article it seemed to be really complete, and it is just overall very interesting. It even has a sound clip of the bird’s call along with many images that enhance the article. I looked at all of the talk page comments and suggestions, and the article appears to adequately address them all. Moreover, the article is just altogether very interesting. It mentions a study about the species’ intelligence, it shows the relation of the species to U.S. popular culture, and I already noted the great images and auditory aids. Also, the article is well-written, remaining on topic throughout its entirety while staying concise. Finally, there is only one citation needed mark and no other cleanup tags on the page. I nominate this article for Good Article status because I believe that it deserves such a status and will pass all of the criteria. WhitleyTucker (talk) 12:26, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

In culture references....
There was a reference the section that started as: "In Mexico the bird is known as cenzontle, which stems from the nahuatl word centzontlahtolli formed by centzontli ( four hundred) and tlahtolli (word, voice); the four-hundred-voices-bird, or bird of endless voices. Nezahualcóyotl,poet king of Texcoco, praised the beauty of the mockingbird's songs in one of his poems...." that was not referenced. There was a more famous song "Hush little baby...." that was once listed that was deleted because there was no reference. In fact it was one of the last factoids (trivial at that) that was deleted in order for this article to obtain GA status. As a GA, it needs to have a reference in order to stay on the page. If you can add a citation after what you listed, make sure you can add it. If not, don't bother. LeftAire (talk) 21:09, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Responding to request for peer review
Hi there!

I'm responding to the request for a peer review on this article. Let me first say that I enjoyed every minute I spent reading this. The style is wonderfully accessible in a way that eludes most Wikipedia science articles. As a non-scientist, I appreciate that it taught me the terms I needed to know to understand all the content. And, despite multiple contributors, it has a unity of style and voice that really surprised me. I found no unclear or cumbersome sentences. I have only a few suggestions and they are tentatively offered:

I don't know how scientific it is to describe a bird as "absolutely fearless" though I know what you mean and to word it any differently could be really awkward as in: "To a human perception, the bird displays no fear."

I think the information about sex selection of offspring needs a little more detail, however gruesome it might be, because some species, like turtles can actually achieve this prior to birth, others neglect to feed, and others harass their excess offspring. It caused me to wonder, so my suggestion is to provide more explanation there.

I think mockingbirds have been known to harass not just species that threaten them, but also species that pose no threat, like bluebirds if they are nesting in the same territory, so in my opinion something about that should be added.

Again, congratulations on a great article! --Georgiasouthernlynn (talk) 15:29, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

holly trees
I wish you would see if you can find a good resource about mockingbirds and holly trees. Near the DC area I have noticed mockingbirds choosing to live near holly trees. The berries are red like on the rosa multiflora, and of course persist through the winter. When a holly tree was cut down near me, our mockingbird migrated away; I fostered one in my yard, along with a white mulberry and lots of pokeweed, and last year a male claimed the turf. This year he mated and they are raising their chick in my yard. They are keeping my little veggie garden nice and clean, and I help them chase off nasty pesky squirrels. 71.163.117.143 (talk) 18:15, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Where does Northern mbird really live...
Article says, "The mockingbird's breeding range is from Maritime provinces of Canada westwards to British Columbia, practically the entire Continental United States south of the northern Plains states and Pacific northwest, ..."

These statements are confusing and seem to collide. British Columbia is north of the Pacific northwest. In addition to the habitat ranging only south of the Pacific northwest, the bird probably doesn't live in BC.

I live in the Pacific northwest and spend time in southern California. See mockingbirds only in the latter loc.

72.132.207.204 (talk) 17:02, 5 February 2017 (UTC)muellerd
 * Hi- A couple links from sites with good info: Cornell's All About Birds (see also the interactive sighting map linked under the range map) and Audubon Eric talk 18:51, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

"the only mockingbird commonly found in North America"
Both the Bahamas and tropical mockingbirds are found in what is commonly considered North America. Lavateraguy (talk) 15:19, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program assignment
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