Talk:Nueva canción

Chile
Someone added the following to Protest song, but it should be merged with this article. Common Man 02:51, 21 January 2006 (UTC) (This is right! New Song Movement is part of Protest Music and also part of Folk Music. 21 Feb 2007 - Can this be added to a new Topic called "New Song Movement"? Please!


 * "La Nueva Cancion" also known as "New Song Movement" or "Trova", a Latin American musical movement, born during the social movements of the early 1900s and the revolution of Allende in the 1970s is a great example of the power of music as a weapon to denounce, propose and unite, making the artist a key person to bring social changes. The assassination of Victor Jara, one of the key singers of the Nueva Canción movement, after the military coup in 1973 and the installation of a dictatorship of 17 years lead by the general Pinochet, shows the potential of the singer to help his people, and the danger he can represent for any regime. "There is no revolution without songs" wrote Salvador Allende.

Spain
I have added Spain and a list of artists from Spain, I think Canary Islands should appear as part of Spanish Nueva canción, not a separate entry. Besides, Canary artists like Pedro Guerra aren´t part of the nueva canción movement, by the time he started his career nueva canción was considered a genre from the past, in Spain nueva canción isn´t used anymore for new music since the mid 1980s, and singers as Pedro Guerra are just referred as 'cantautores' (singer/songwriters). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fery1378 (talk • contribs) 10:32, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Expanding Article to Reflect Diversity of National Movements
I am interesting in garnering feedback to the idea of expanding this article to more create specific articles (or sections within this article) on national manifestations of the NC movement. This article breaks NC down by country only for the purpose of listing artists. However, great diversity exists among national movements (like Argentine Nuevo Cancionero, Chilean Nuevo Canto, Cuban Nueva Trova, etc). Those differences are highlighted well in the Spanish Wikipedia but are not present here, in the English Wikipedia. KLi 32 (talk) 00:38, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I like your suggestions. A breakdown of the national variants would be welcome. The list of artists could probably be spliced off to another article (something like List of Nueva canción artists). Also Nueva trova already has an article. Gobōnobō  + c 20:52, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Questions and suggestion
The 20th century folk revival in the English speaking world is somewhat analogous to this. In the English speaking world, there is a single term (folk music) is now applied to both the traditional music that is the musical roots of the movement as well as to the modern music which was created by the movement. I'm writing this for 2 reasons. One is to try to gain perspective for my work at Folk music. The other is a suggestion for additional coverage and explanation at this article. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:17, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Is there also one word for two generes for Nueva canción?
 * If so, is it the pre-edominently used word for both?
 * Suggest including the Spanish word for "traditional music"
 * Would the Spanish "translation" of the English term "Folk music" be relevant / useful in this  article?


 * Hello! Thanks for your question. It would be inappropriate to apply "folk music" or any Spanish translation of the term to Nueva Canción as the movement represents more than a folk revival but a very explicit political posture. It would be similar to a more overtly politicized version of the folk-rock music in the US during the 1960s. I should also add that I did some thesis work on this topic in both Spanish and English and one of the issues I ran into was the discrepancies between Spanish "folklórico" and the really nuanced set of vocabulary that the music field uses to discuss folk music. KLi 32 (talk) 01:40, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * This is cool being able to talk to someone with expertise in the field. But so far I do not understand. One way to help (if you could bear with me) might be to detail my question.
 * What is the Spanish word for 150 year old traditional "music of the people"?
 * Did Nueva Canción create a new genre of music?    And if so, what is that Spanish word for this new genre of music?
 * Thanks!  Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:04, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The answers to your questions are complicated. Partially because of the language barrier and because of the issues inherent in applying the practices of the Western music community to a Latin American phenomenon. But here is my attempt to clarify:
 * The word would be "folklórico" (folklore) or maybe sometimes "música indígena" (indigenous music) if it was coming from an Amerindian context. That is one of the big issues in this field. "Folklórico" is applied to art, music, culture, customs, and recipes in a way that sort of generally means "traditional" or "of the people," as you say. In Western music studies scholars argue frequently about how exactly to define what "folk music" even is.
 * Nueva canción has a very clear foundation in folk music but is a distinct musical movement of its own. It appropriates folk idioms and re-applies them to political contexts, arguing for sociopolical change. In Spanish they often talk about NC as a music that has "raíces de folórico" (roots in folklore) but that grows into its own separate identity. As the movement continues in the 1980s, it grows farther and farther away from folk music roots and incorporates pop, rock, jazz, and Afro-Cuban influences. The word for this new music is simply "nueva canción" (new song). Most people accept "nueva canción" as the title of the larger musical movement and the musical genre. With that said, I should qualify that the term "genre" is in itself somewhat complicated in that it sometimes refers to stylistic categories and other times structural. For example, you will sometimes see "nueva canción" songs like Mercedes Sosa's "Zamba de los humildes" that is composed in a Zamba, a particular musical form (like the waltz or sonata) that could also be considered a "genre."
 * I told you it was confusing. Trust me, I understand. In writing a thesis this type of clarification took up lots of space. I am currently attempting a large expansion of this article. It is in its beginning stages but you can view it in my Sandbox. I welcome feedback. If you are looking to improve Folk music I would encourage you to read Carole Pegg's discussion of "folk music" in Grove Music Online. You will have to have access to a Library who subscribes to the database but it is well worth a read for an overview of the scholastic conversation on the topic. Let me know if there is any other way that I can be of assistance! Best, KLi 32 (talk) 21:35, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much. I'm so sorry that I did not see this until now.  A bunch of RW stuff conspired to make that happen. I still have to fully absorb what you wrote but wanted to write this without further delay.  Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:47, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Suggested Page Overhaul
I previously posted above about my desire to expand and revise this article. My sandbox now has a complete draft of those revisions. It is likely that I would add a short section highlighting nueva trova, the reasons it can be considered nueva canción and the reasons for which it is a distinct entity. Because it already has an article of moderately good quality, my contribution would clarify that classification and direct users to nueva trova. I would also propose that the existing list of artists in this article be pulled out into a new article like List of Nueva canción artists. Any feedback would be welcomed and appreciated. KLi 32 (talk) 03:25, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

What an immense amount of expert work! A few thoughts / suggestions:


 * I think that the current article has more summarization-type statements that help explain the topic to folks who don't already know it.  IMHO trying to keep more of those would be a good idea.
 * I'd recommend listing about 20-30 prominent artists in this article for a few reasons.  First, a list of 20-30 selected prominent artists is info about who was/is prominent.  That is much more informative than a list of 150-200  artists.  Second, IMHO artists are an important part of the topic and best not left out of the main article.

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 15:02, 7 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the feedback. Very helpful! Though I have knowledge in this subject area, I am new to Wikipedia and welcome suggestions.KLi 32 (talk) 01:17, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I have now transferred my overhaul from my sandbox to the article. I don't guarantee that it is perfect, but-in the spirit of Wikipedia- I edited boldly! I incorporated the existing list into the regional sections as I found that to be the most logical place for them. After this contribution, I feel there are additional tasks that could improve this article: I look forward to seeing the additional improvements the community makes to my contribution. As always, let me know if I can help!KLi 32 (talk) 15:05, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Expansion to include discussion of other regional manifestations (other than Argentina, Chile, Spain, Cuba)
 * I personally find the list of artists excessive but I lack the particular expertise to narrow some of the most egregious (for example, Mexico). Could someone who has that knowledge narrow lists to 5-10? I think the value of this article as a resource grows when it directs readers to the most major artists, not a list of 50+.
 * I incorporated information from Nova Cançó into this article because it is a submovement of the Nueva canción movement. However, the original article lacks sources and I unfortunately cannot currently allocate time to find them. I added templates in which I thought were the most concerning areas.


 * I'm no expert, but nice work! North8000 (talk) 15:54, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Great work KLi 32! I've changed some of the casing for the genres in the article so that it is consistent (feel free to change if it's wrong), added columns and linked up the lists of musicians so we can see which ones have articles. Gobōnobō  + c 20:36, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That looks fantastic, Gobonobo! I didn't even know that columns were possible but they work so much better. Thanks! KLi 32 (talk) 20:51, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Portugal
Portugal is listed as a scene of activity, yet there is no section in the article about nueva cancion artists from Portugal. Should Portugal be removed from the list of regional scenes in the infobox, or should evidence regarding Portuguese nueva cancion artists be added to the article? 2601:883:4201:2720:4D5F:7795:B2DA:8082 (talk) 04:04, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, of course the best is to add material on Portugal and Portuguese artists.   But the alternatives aren't limited to removing Portugal.   Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:54, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

September 2021 edits
Germanico5468504}} I noticed that you did some work on the article ending with some large unexplained deletions.  I reverted the deletions.   If you still wish to make them for the good of the article, could you explain? Sincerely, North8000 ([[User talk:North8000#top|talk) 20:49, 4 September 2021 (UTC)