Talk:Numismatics/Archive 1

I NEED A LESSON ON KRUGERRANDS
My father who has passed away 3 years ago owed Krugerrands and sold them before he died, he took great steps in hiding these coins, would this be because any coins he had were from the 70's and 80's, and the law change in the 90's would not effect the older coins? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Starbuckwolf (talk • contribs)


 * Many people keep rolls of Krugerrands in the house (20 to a roll). The usual procedure is to hide them so they don't get stolen. That's why everybody puts them in a roll of socks and hides them in the sock drawer. And no, I don't recall seeing a date on those things. Plus I remember everybody owning them, even when they were illegal. Zyxwv99 (talk) 23:06, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Numismatic exchange
This is non profit!!! I want to promote numismatic exchange between wipedians, this in a non comercial activity, if you want to exchange banknotes and coins from w/w just post me a message, I can offer good coins and unc. banknotes from Cuba only for exchange, not for trade. KatKiller 08:07, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Numismatics and chronology
The coinage history has allegedly seen an “ancient dawn,” then the Dark Ages are supposed to have come, and later on the Renaissance epoch. It is assumed that between the VIII and XIII century a.d. all Roman golden coinage disappeared from Italy ([Cipolla, Carlo M.Money, Prices and Civilization in the Mediterranean World. 5-17 century. Princeton, Princeton Univ. Press, 1956.]). This strange effect is noticeable enough to have entered the names of chapters of certain monographs on history and numismatics, such as “The End of Roman Coinage (V century),” or “Imitation epoch (VI century)” ([Grierson, Philip. Monnaies du Moyen Âge. Fribourg, 1976.]). Let us pay close attention to the following information provided by specialists in numismatic history. It turns out that in the Middle Ages “the West of Europe did not try to compete with Byzantium and the Muslims in this respect. The idea of having regular gold coinage was given up, and most mints produced silver coins” ([Prices and Civilization in the Mediterranean World. 5-17 century.], page 20; [1435]). It is also said that “regular golden coinage had practically ceased in VIII-century Western Europe, and towards the end of the same century on the Italian peninsula as well. Even in Muslim Spain no golden coinage was minted between the beginning of the VIII century and the beginning of the X” ([Prices..], page 20). Numismatists attempt to give some sort of explanation to this mysterious “mediaeval gap” in coinage history. It is suggested that “gold coinage was ceased by an order issued by Pepin”. The council at Reims allegedly forbade the use of the golden solidi of imperial Rome, and the type of circulating coinage allegedly “became barbaric” in the VIII century ([The End of Roman Coinage ], page 151). Doesn’t this imply that the “ancient”Western European coinage is really mediaeval, minted after the XIV century a.d., and cast way back in time by Scaligerian chronology? Historians proceed to tell us that “there are no Papal coins from the time of Benedict VII (who died in the alleged year 984 a.d.) to that of Leo IX [allegedly the middle of the XI century] in existence; this is purely incidental, since the coinage must have existed, naturally… There is only one coin from the times of Leo IX… Even stranger is the fact that not a single coin remained from the times of Gregory VII” ([Gregorovius, F. History of the City of Rome in the Middle Ages. London, G. Bell & Sons, 1900-1909.], Volume 4, page 74, comment 41). Where did all these mediaeval coins go? Let us formulate a hypothesis. All of these coins have been misdated, and thrown back into the past, transforming into “ancient coins” as a result. Some of them are exhibited in museums as “very old ones” nowadays. Apparently, the naissance of golden and silver coinage in Western Europe really dates to the XIII century a.d. at the earliest. Confronted by the non-existence of mediaeval Western European coins predating the XIII century a.d., the numismatists were faced with the necessity to invent various theories aimed at explaining the economical stagnation of Europe that allegedly followed the “flourishing Classical age”. The strange “stagnation” in Roman minting between the VIII and XIII century a.d. is all the more amazing since it follows a very fruitful and glorious period of Roman coinage of the alleged I-VI century a.d. Golden coins of this “ancient” empire are on a par with the mediaeval ones dated to the XIII-XVII century in quality and detail. This oddity is most probably explained by the misdating of the XIII-XVII century coins that have been moved a long way into the past. Poggio Bracciolini 18:07, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Comments
I don't really know anything about numismatics, so I don't feel comfortable editing. From the introduction and the first section, I get the impression that it has to do with the physical representations of money. If that's the case, I would change "study of money" in the definition, to "study of currency". Brock

I agree with Brock, and also don't know anything about numismatics. However, the introduction is nearly incomprehensible in that it opens with an introduction to the topic but then gives examples without giving any examples. As I'm not confident enough about what they're examples of, I hesitate to edit the page for that. That and beyond extremely basic editing, I'm not sure what I'm doing. Wishelephant (talk) 00:04, 9 September 2011 (UTC)wishelephant

Monies studied by numismatists
'Early money used by primitive people is referred to as "Odd and Curious", but the use of other goods in barter exchange is excluded, even where used as a circulating currency (e.g. prison cigarettes). '

I find this sentence odd and curious. Brock 06:46, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

The Numismatics definition is missing the sub heading of Medals and Medalists. Numismatica = Coins and Exonumia, (Numismaticist)

Exonumia = Tokens, Medals, Notaphily, Scripophily, and Gift Cards, Et cetera (Exonumist)

Notaphily = Paper Money, (Notaphile/Notaphiliac).

Scripophily =Stock certificates, (Scripophilist, Scripophilac)

Medals have a clear distinction from tokens in that there is not a monetary value on the item. (Medalists)

Houldieson February 25th 2009

Market value of rare coins
It seems to me that this section is inappropriate under the topic of Numismatics as Numismatics is truly the study of coins and has nothing really to do with coin investment and the coin market per se. Most of the numismatic research going on out there has little to do with PCGS Graded Morgan Dollars, etc.

Maybe this should be split off into a different article or a new article in itself. --70.225.45.252 02:09, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Or maybe moved to coin collecting article.--Qwertypoiuy 14:41, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


 * It is also relevant only to collectors of coins from the United States - I have tagged it accordingly. Humansdorpie 08:37, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Greek name
Why is this in the first sentence? Seems strangely biased. --jazzle 11:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Userbox
For those interested, here is a userbox to set up for placement on your userpage. -- PremKudva Talk  05:05, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Numismatics
Coin collecting started centuries ago before the Renaissance. Julius Emperor of the Roman Empire was a coin collector. Coin collecting is the hobby of Emperors, Kings, and Nobles. The article does not reflect any of this.--Margrave1206 02:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * "Coin collecting has existed since ancient times, it is know that Emperor Augustus as collected coins as did Julius Caesar. It is called the "Hobby of Kings" rising in great demand during the late Medieval period and the early Renaissance. In this period ancient coins were collect a great deal by European Kings and nobility." Straight from the article, under History of Numismatics.   Jo  e  I  02:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes I wrote that whole frist paragraph dealing with the collecting coins under history. I did way with the original paragraph, it stated coin collecting started in the 17th century. I also linked to pages for more proof.--Margrave1206 03:22, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

That intro is an incoherent mess. What the hell is a student of coins? Who the hells cares about some obscure and unrepresentative Kyrgyz practices, especially in the intro? "Money's physical embodyment"? This is just ridiculously bad stuff. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.146.242.125 (talk) 19:54, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

List of important numismatic scholars
Can we create a table for this list and include their area of expertise? This list is a big mess. Not only is it out of alphabetical order, but it has ancient numismatists mixed in with world, US and exonumia experts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Salsany (talk • contribs) 02:08, 17 December 2012 (UTC) I have figured out how to create a table and I am in the process of doing so in my sandbox. I will post to "talk" before changing it in the article. This is going to take some time, I would like to add more experts as well as more citations. Possibly create a list of articles which need to be written and more importantly, create a bibliography of books and articles for each of these important scholars.--Salsany (talk) 02:25, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Pronunciation
How is this word pronounced, and can someone in the know add some IPA to that effect on the page? Much thanks. Meawoppl (talk) 22:44, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Archived old threads
I've archived some old threads to older versions of the article that were no longer relevant.

They can be seen in the talk page archives linked to from the Talk header at the top of this page.

Threads archived were over two (2) years old.

Cheers,

&mdash; Cirt (talk) 22:06, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Rai Stones
I am adding an additional abnormal example to the opening paragraph. The sentence currently reads :

"Many objects have been used for centuries, such as cowry shells, precious metals, cocoa beans, and gems."

It will now read as:

"Many objects have been used for centuries, such as cowry shells, precious metals, cocoa beans, large stones, and gems."

A link to the relevant article will also be provided. Rai Stones are from the Island of Yap, and are often too large for someone to easily move from one location to another. The possession of each stone is passed via oral agreement without physical removal of the material from one location to another being necessary. I think that this addition is relevant to the subject, as it provides an example of one of the many ways in which the exchange of currency can take place within society outside of traditional means. Additionally, the speed at which this stone-based currency can be traded is extremely compelling. Up until the recent technological advances of the late 20th and early 21st century, similar large sums of money could not to be physically transferred between two persons quicker then the speed of language, before possession of ownership of that currency could then be traded to a third person. The speed at which Rai Stones can theoretically be traded at is now only typically surpassed by High Frequency Trading algorithms, operated by high end financial servers in major Financial Markets. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sawta (talk • contribs) 20:59, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Collecting or not?
There is a note: ''This article is about numismatics as an academic discipline. For collecting, see Coin collecting.''

However, the first sentence immediately contradicts that: Numismatics is the study or collection of currency, including coins, tokens, paper money, and related objects.

So which way is it? 82.141.73.182 (talk) 20:45, 16 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I have to agree with this statement. I am trying to better understand the topic and was confused by the disparity. Sawta (talk) 21:03, 11 January 2017 (UTC)