Talk:Oil wrestling

Comment
Stop the valdalism, LUE. -.-

150.134.74.131 22:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I propose move to "Oil wrestling"
I consider myself a fan of the Turkish language, and still speak it a bit; and I am generally ok with names staying the same, if there is strong support, but this seems a bit excessive: "Yağlı güreş" contains 4 letters that don't exist in standard English if you count "ü" - anyone who does not know Turkish won't have a clue how to pronounce this or look it up, and the term "oil wrestling" is pretty standard in English - e.g., in travel guide indices, on the links in this article. What do you think? Sağol, arkadaşlar! --Chinawhitecotton 09:37, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I am Turkish, but I'm using an English keyboard right now. However, using "yagli gures" instead of "yağlı güreş" still presents the same page. Therefore, I do not see this as much of a problem. If someone who knows the Latin alphabet has seen "yağlı güreş" written and aren't able to rewrite or copy-paste it, they can just use the most similiar letters instead of the Turkish letters. From my experience, this seems to OFTEN(though not always) work in Wikipedia, and it is actually a practice we Turks use often.(For example, we write İstanbul as Istanbul to make it easier for foreigners, even though those two letters have different sounds.) "Oil wrestling" doesn't seem clear enough, it may be confused with female oil wrestling. However, "Olive oil wrestling" or "Turkish oil wrestling" may be good names, as I admit some people may not think of using the non-Turkish letters they have instead of the Turkish letters, especially if it hasn't worked for something else before. [P.S: When addressing more than one person(arkadaşlar:friends) you should use "sağolun", not "sağol". ;)] Flint A 22:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Yusuf İsmail(Koca Yusuf)
Under "Famous Wrestlers (Pehlivans)" there is some information about Koca Yusuf(Yusuf İsmail) that the page about him(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusuf_%C4%B0smail) denies. This article also references to that page, so this seems contradicting. The other page sounds more plausible. Flint A 22:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Sali Suleyman (Sulejman)
A famous Kumik-Azeri-Avar wrestler Sali Suleyman should be mentioned   too. He got this name after defeating a famous Turkish wrestler Sali Suleyman, a favorite of sultan Abdul Hamid. Suleyman then said that only a winner can bear that name and renounced it in favor of the younger opponent from the Caucasus mountains. --Wisconsin96 22:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Greco-Roman is NOT Ancient Greek Wrestling
The article implies that the wrestling in ancient Greece was Greco-Roman, and that no holds beneath the waist were employed. That's actually nonsense. Greco-Roman wrestling was invented by a Frenchman in the 19th century. I'd hope that the wikipedia article on Greco would include that infomation (I just checked it, and it does, so no excuses); it's not a difficult thing to check. Greek wrestling went to the ground, holds beneath the waist were very normal and popular, and the ruleset was completely different. I have no doubt that real Greek wrestling influenced Turkish wrestling, but it's not Greco-Roman. That's all. GuiGe 06:06, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Name Should be : "TURKISH WRESTLING"
The name of this article should be changed to "TURKISH WRESTLING", since it is the wrestling style practiced in all towns and championships in Turkey, other than the sport clubs preparing their wrestlers for olympic events. This sport is similar to "Mongolian wrestling" in its rules. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.182.74.148 (talk) 13:46, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: closed, moved. Will add hat note to cover the mud wrestling reference in existing article billinghurst  sDrewth  16:12, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Yağlı güreş → — "Oil wrestling" is apparently a recognized name for this sport. I have been to Turkey, so I fortunately have a vague notion of how to pronounce the current title, but for most people, it's a hopeless task. Varlaam (talk) 00:47, 12 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Support also this rename. Oil wrestling in not only in Turkey.. Oil wrestling is taking place in Greece, in Rhodope-Evros (west Thrace) and Seres Prefecture. It is also taking place in Bulgaria, (FYRO) Macedonia etc.. Because it is a sport in many countries of the south balkans.. it is better to translate to the English name Oil wrestling... Ggia (talk) 05:02, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Support  Seems to make sense to use the English term.  would need to move Oil wrestling to Oil wrestling (disambiguation) if it is really worth keeping that disambiguation.  A hatnote would actually be better.  Skinsmoke (talk) 05:44, 12 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment If you have noticed I have already renamed wiki commons category to Category:Oil_wrestling with subcategories: Category:Oil_Wrestling_in_Turkey,Category:Oil_Wrestling_in_Greece, Category:Oil_wrestling_in_Kosovo. In the category of Oil Wrestling in Kosovo it used to be an image which was deleted because of copyright issues - now it is empty. Ggia (talk) 10:07, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

oil wrestling in ancient greece.
why dont you mention that in ancient greece also were using olive oil in wrestling and pankration which lasted until the times of byzantium. its well known the usage of olive oil in ancient greece and in olympic games which wrestling was a major sport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Olympic_Games#Events —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.72.147.48 (talk) 02:15, 15 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Do we have reliable sources connecting wrestling in ancient greece (with oil) with oil wrestling today? Ggia (talk) 10:16, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

why, do you have reliable sources that connect wrestling in ancient egypt or syria with oil wrestling today?No but it is mentioned in the article that were using oil in their wrestling in ancient times in those areas.My point is why dont you mention ancient greece in using also oil in wrestling and olympic games because it had an enormous influence in sport tradition and athletics in mediternnean area with most obvious influence in Roman athletic culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.72.159.235 (talk) 19:00, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

from antiquity until 8th century A.D is documented that oil wrestling is practiced in eastern mediterranean and balkans in the era of Byzantine Empire. By the eighth century, the Byzantine emperor Basil I, according to court historians, won in wrestling against a boastful wrestler from Bulgaria. seljuk turks came in this area in 11nth century AD. Poliakoff, Michael (1996). "Wrestling, Freestyle". In Levinson, David; Christensen, Karen (eds.). Encyclopedia of World Sport: From Ancient Times to the Present (Vol. 3). Santa Barbara, CA: ABC-CLIO. p. 1193. ISBN 0-87436-819-7. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_wrestling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuq_dynasty

Confusion
I would like to propose some editing options to this article. I am not a person that knows much about the "oil wrestling" or any topic like it, and found this article very hard to read. I especially found the introductory part of the article the most confusing. It was very choppy without much explanation. I would like to propose that it be moved into its own subhead within the article. The concept of the baspehlivan and the pehlivan categories need to be explained. This was the most confusing part for me because it did not offer any back ground information! I feel that there is more than enough information to provide these categories and it will be very interesting to read more about the basics of the game! --Larocque81272 (talk) 17:10, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

I concur. Especially with regards to terms of art such as Kisbet in the introduction. 2600:1702:3940:92D0:1D0E:6DF8:E522:DD25 (talk) 15:16, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Hardly helpful? "requires great strength and mastery"
Obviously, if one has attained "mastery" - then one is a master. The best wrestler on a given day, will win his (or her) matches - not necessarily the strongest wrestler. Other things which can be true (and just as bad for an encyclopedia): The best wrestlers, have the most luck in their matches (and oil-wrestling careers). 89.8.144.217 (talk) 12:44, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Lost in translation?
Please confirm if the following text is of interest for this article: " it is normal to get with the Hands into the pants of the other person". (It is currently being used in another article, seemingly in a Good Faith edit. I can't be bothered with the references, if nothing about this, is in the ballpark, so to speak.) Regards! 89.8.157.238 (talk) 19:39, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
 * It was simply poor English that was being used since I assume you are referring to the edits on Simple Wikipedia. It has been reworded. You have to remember the audience that wiki attracts and not get in an edit war over there with editors. Instead discuss your changes when you are reverted. -DJSasso (talk) 20:59, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Please confirm if the following idea is of interest for "Oil wrestling" (on English-wiki): "The cuffs of the pants [the cuffs of the kisbet] are just below the knees. The wrestlers put their hands in the pants of the other person or use the cuffs to get more leverage". From .--As most of us might know - other wikis might have other guidelines than English-wiki.--My talk page is looking forward to information of what is happening on other wikipedias, if the information is relevant to improving articles on English-wiki. 89.8.87.163 (talk) 00:40, 21 March 2022 (UTC) 89.8.87.163 (talk) 00:45, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Female competitors
Hi! If the following text is okay, for this wiki, then I (or someone) will try to cough up references: "Except for male competitions, there are also competitions for women. Female competitors wear a dress [or are outfitted with something, my words] which resembles a swimsuit." My thoughts: If there is no mention of "kisbet", then this is not good enough for English-wiki (no matter what any references might say). Regards! 89.8.121.154 (talk) 22:36, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
 * An opposing view: "A lot of time and energy has been put into the issue of the participation of women in this aport [sport]. I have to wonder why this is. This is far from the first sport which does not have female participants. [...] Does the article for the NHL devote space to female players? [...] We don't devote time and energy into dealing with these courner cases in the largest of sports leagues where coverage of every topic is daily news and yet people are scrounging for any tidbit on this sport just because one person made a comment about it [...]. [...] and ask yourselves "Why are we doing this? How much effort are we going to put into the lack of gender participation [...]? All because one person made a comment about the subjects?" From a somewhat similar website. 89.8.140.162 (talk) 09:43, 21 March 2022 (UTC)