Talk:Oliver Fish

Patricia Mauceri
came to wider attention when Patricia Mauceri, an actress who had played a recurring role on the series since 1995, was replaced after reportedly voicing personal religious objections to her character's involvement in the plot.
 * Is this really true? The storyline was already getting attention before she was fired. And it just feels out of place in this article; it belongs more in something like the Patricia Mauceri article. --Silvestris (talk) 16:43, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The Out.com article you cited in your couple article actually says "One reason the storyline has gained much prominence (including mainstream headlines and attention) is because a recurring One Life to Live actress, Patricia Mauceri, refused to participate in an upcoming story..." &mdash; TAnthonyTalk 18:12, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess, though I don't think it should be in the lead paragraph. --Silvestris (talk) 21:55, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's actually just about the only thing that makes the character notable from a mainstream standpoint; a lead section is meant to introduce the main points in an article, which are then expanded upon later in the article. I've seen you around and I don't know your experience, but see you have relatively few edits. Most of the soap-related articles contain no or minimal real-world context and references asserting notability, and most wouldn't survive an AfD because of it. Articles on fictional subjects need to be more than plot summary, and technically the real-world stuff is more important than storyline details.&mdash; TAnthonyTalk 00:55, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I would say that the Mauceri incident should be noted in the lead, considering that it is one of the two reasons why this character is notable. I would not say that the Mauceri incident is the only thing that makes this character notable from a mainstream standpoint, though. The character being gay does. Why? Because storylines about or involving gay and lesbian characters are still rare on American soap operas (or at least were until this year), and especially on One Life to Live and The Young and the Restless and a few others. That is why this summer has been called "The Summer of Gays" or "The Gays of Summer" in regards to soap operas (because this year...gay characters or somewhat gay and lesbian characters are on three American soap operas, simultaneously ). I have to, however, state that Silvestris is familiar with plot not being enough for fictional character articles on Wikipedia; Silvestris has presumably known this since my work on the Luke Snyder and Noah Mayer article (which I still currently need to fix up even more; the plot of that article has gotten terribly out of hand, for example). Flyer22 (talk) 01:46, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * When I say "mainstream," I mean non-soap, non-gay press. Not that it's on the cover of Time or anything, but while the storyline itself would of be of little interest to your average hetero reader, the controversy is more likely to be.&mdash; TAnthonyTalk 05:00, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, I hear ya. Flyer22 (talk) 05:38, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Bisexual category?
I just noticed that this character is placed in Category:Fictional bisexuals. I ask...is he not being written as a gay man in denial of his sexual orientation (that he is gay), and should therefore be placed in Category:Fictional gay men? As we know, plenty of gay and lesbian individuals are with the opposite sex romantically/sexually before "coming out" and some very likely never "come out" to anyone at all. Flyer22 (talk) 03:59, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking that since the character has yet to self-identify as gay and has been established to have had sexual/romantic relationships with both sexes, technically he's "bi" at the moment. But I have no objection if you think it's appropriate to tag him as gay, since as you suggest, it's clear where the story is going.&mdash; TAnthonyTalk 06:39, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for explaining your reasoning. I suppose it is fine to keep him listed as bisexual for now. I would not bet on him being labeled as bisexual by the show, however (after all, he is found to have a book called How To Tell Your Parents That You’re Gay, though it could currently be argued that he simply did not find a book titled How To Tell Your Parents That You’re Bisexual). Yes, I do feel that they are more likely to label him as gay. But, hey, they could make him sexually confused all over again one day and then have him self-identify as bisexual. It is definitely tricky to label Maggie Stone's sexual orientation, for example. Flyer22 (talk) 06:46, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I just a moment ago went ahead and changed the category to Category:Fictional gay men. It has been made clear now that he identifies as gay. Flyer22 (talk) 00:34, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

How Tell Your Parents That You’re Gay
I changed that title to How To Tell Your Parents That You’re Gay, but I see that the two sources leave out the "To" part. Is that a typo on their parts? Flyer22 (talk) 07:24, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Confusing text: Oliver or Fish?
The text keeps interchanging between the first and last name. We must be consistent and use only one. serioushat 07:23, 7 November 2010 (UTC)