Talk:Ostrogozhsk

Unusual Editing
-When one picks and chooses information provided by an editor that fulfills an obvious agenda a third party (arbitrator) needs to be brought in. Similary whilst removing information that has been sourced but that may not be in favour of one party, that is called politically motivated editing, it means prioristing an agenda over cited information, and is against Wikipedia guidelines. If you have a legimitiate problem with the information provided (of which you haven't expressed) please do so, your history of edits indicates a strategic motive, as per wikipedia policies those users that remove information without justification consistely in favour of one party are liable to be banned. Again, if you have a legitimate problem, and I stress legitimate, please explain. The information provided has been sources from a Harvard Published book, yet you retain "During the time of Stepan Razin's revolt against Aleksey Mikhailovich of Russia the city was under control of rebellious Cossacks." that has no citation, I wonder why? Both our time could be used far more productively than an edit war, hence, though the information may not fulfill an agenda or mention another party, because it is cited and relevant to the article there really is no reason why it shouldnt be in the article.

RegardsDanielLerish (talk) 19:24, 13 March 2020 (UTC)DanielLerish

-Currently I have a Harvard published book stating that-"Founded by Ukrainian Cosacks in the mid seventeenth century, Ostrogozhsk served as the headquarters of a Cossack territorial and miltiary regiment until the 1760s". "in 1652 it was founded as a military fortress (jail) by the Registered Cossacks of the Chernihiv and Nizhyn Regiments, led by Colonel Ivan Dzikovsky." There is not one citation here that states Ostrogozhsk (Ostrohozsk) was founded by a Russian voivode, even the source I believe your getting that from does not state that, it says he helped construct buildings there, the sources saying it was founded by Ukrainian cossacks signifcanlty outweigh any other theory. Please desist transliterating the names of Ukrainian cities from Russian into English, the regiments moved to Ostrogozhsk (Ostrohozk) in 1652, before the Treaty of Pereyeslav let alone the abolition of the Hetmenate. Again not one citation you have provided says 'Belogorod defnsive line of Russia' they all use the terms 'Belogorod defensive line' or 'Belgorod Defensive Line of Muscovy', desist emphasising a certain POV and repeating the word. "Why did you delete a redirect to Korotoyak, Voronezh Oblast?"-Why do you keep on deleting 'and the Ukrainian Cossacks that lived in Korotoyak moved to Ostrogozhsk", again please stop removing all things Ukrainian and constantly repeating the word 'Russian' at the expense of sources and citations, if the citation uses the term 'Russian' use it, likewise if it says 'Ukrainian' you don't need to get rid of it becuase you may not agree with it. As for the spelling of Ostrogozhsk, I am well aware that Ukrainian is not a legal language of Voronezh oblast, yet it is common practice that with cities that have had duel influence by two or more ethnic groups, both language names are put in the article, not to mention the fact that Ukrainian actually was the legal language of Ostrogozhsk from 1918-1919. That is more than enough to qualify for another ethnic name for the city in the lead.
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toruń
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/České_Budějovice
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timișoara

RegardsDanielLerish (talk) 16:24, 28 March 2020 (UTC)DanielLerish


 * Dear DanielLerish, sorry for my delayed response, I have not seen your contributions on the talk-page until this day. To let me know about your contributions you need to write my User-name with square brackets: "[" "["User: Name "]" "]".
 * I don't understand, why did you delete all the information about Russian voivode Fyodor Arsenyev (Фёдор Юрьевич Арсеньев; ?—1656). If you have some knowledge of the Russian language, then you can read an article about him. Arsenyev was responsible for the organisation of the Defensive Line in the area of Ostrogozhsk. As a Moscovite voivode Arsenyev was responsible for choosing of the place for the future fortress, i.e. Ostrogozhsk. I don't deny the thesis, that the most part of the people, who builded the fort of Ostrogozhsk were Ukrainian-born Cossacks, but there were also a number of people from the area of Central Russia (the so-called "posad-people" and "streltsy").
 * You write: "Again not one citation you have provided says 'Belogorod defnsive line of Russia' they all use the terms 'Belogorod defensive line' or 'Belgorod Defensive Line of Muscovy', desist emphasising a certain POV and repeating the word". - I wrote only about Tsardom of Russia, (sic!) not about Russia in the modern context. See accurate my contribution: [1]. 'Belgorod Defensive Line of Muscovy' means exactly 'Belgorod Defensive Line of Russia'. There is no difference. Best regards, Ушкуйник (talk) 20:55, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

I referred you four times to the talk page, but glad you found your own way.

I deleted the information about Fedor because it was uncited, I know it may be frustrating when you yourself carry a fact, but the reality remains that there isn't one source stating that he founded the city, the Brian L Davies source you provided says that-"Moscow agreed to allow the construction here of the fortress, Ostrogozhsk", that means he approved it, Dzinkovksy actually founded it. As I previously wrote, you havent provided a citation stating that it was founded by Fedor, also as per Wikipedia guidelines other English wikipedia articles are not sources that can corrobroate articles let alone foriegn wikipedias, on top of that Russian wikipedia is far from a reliable source. I also cannot find a "Prochorov V. A. The Region of Voronezh.", the only Prochorov V. A. I know is the one that worte the Great History of the Soviet Union, and who is hardly a reliable source.

However, I think we can find a compromise of "It was founded in 1652 by Ukrainian Cossacks as Ostrogozhsk or Ostrohozk and its construction was approved by Russian voyevoda Fyodor Arsenyev".

As for 'Belgorod Defensive Line', I understand you meant another period, yet there is not one source that refers to it as the 'Belgorod Defensive Line of Russia', Wikipedia follows current academic standards in certain fields, it doesnt set out to create new academic terms and jargon. By Brian L. Davies-"the Belgorod Line"
 * The Russo-Turkish War, 1768-1774: Catherine II and the Ottoman Empire
 * "A History of Ukraine: The Land and Its Peoples, Second Edition"-"Belgorod line"
 * http://resource.history.org.ua/cgi-bin/eiu/history.exe?Z21ID=&I21DBN=EIU&P21DBN=EIU&S21STN=1&S21REF=10&S21FMT=eiu_all&C21COM=S&S21CNR=20&S21P01=0&S21P02=0&S21P03=TRN=&S21COLORTERMS=0&S21STR=Ostrohozk "part of the Belgorod Defense Line"

Ушкуйник However, thankyou for trying to create a balanced article. RegardsDanielLerish (talk) 15:35, 31 March 2020 (UTC)DanielLerish

The Ukrainian name
Rybne, it means fishful. Юе Артеміс (talk) 06:27, 16 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Can you include a source for this? Because it looks like an old name and not in current use. Maybe it is something instead for the history section or a name section. Mellk (talk) 10:34, 12 June 2023 (UTC)