Talk:PT-91 Twardy

Translation of "Twardy"
Would "solid" or "durable" be a better translation? Hard can also mean "difficult" and several other things. —Michael Z. 2005-09-9 18:45 Z 


 * I have heard that the producer translated it in that way. However I was at their Web site and didn't find anything about that matter. Maybe it means "difficult" ( to destroy ) ;). On the other hand: maybe we shouldn't translate it because a lot of artciles stay with not translated "Twardy"... Best wishes, Listowy 09:31, 10 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I meant that hard means difficult in English, but I think twardy only means solid, durable, tough, etc. (although I don't speak Polish, so...). —Michael Z. 2005-09-10 15:42 Z 


 * Literal translations are always fraught with danger... I think that the best translation would be "tough", as in "twardziel" = "tough guy". Roo72 01:48, 20 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I have used original Twardy name referring to Polish PT-91 and "Hardy" referring to Malaysian PT-91M - why "Hardy"? Because it was name used by PT-91 producer in commercial materials on military exhibitions. Corran.pl 08:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Michael Z: Hard means in English HARD. As in resistant to pressure, difficult to penetrate (see dictionary.com and others). Hard as in difficult is less approriate usage most suitable for children.

The only usage of "PT-91 Hardy" that I could find in the web is wikipedia. Same for "PT-91M Hardy". "Pt-91 Hard" does appear more often.

"Hardy" sounds awful and like a typical mistake made by Polish speakers attempting to create an English adjective from a Polish adjective. Hardy would seem to be the more appropriate form (as would "toughy") for a less than fluent Polish speaker who did not realize that hard means the same. Weapon supplier promotional materials are often rife with cringe-worthy errors.

Hardy would be translated as "wytrzymały" or "odporny"

Twardy can be translated as "hard" or "tough".

See also http://www.dict.pl/plen?word=twardy&lang=PL

As a note, I speak and write Polish and English fluently. --Dustek 15:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The ting how often something you can find on the Internet does not prof anything, you should search some more reliable materials like polish military magazines from 90s. Hardy was official name no meter you like it or not. Corran.pl 21:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

The word "Hardy" is no a mistake. It's a Polish word (maybe with English roots...) means proud. It is a rather common word which means inflexible, resistan, haughty as well. I speak Polish very well :) Damian from Krakow

Micha: I cannot speak for Polish, but "hardy" definitely is an English word, unless you want to call the Oxford Dictionary an unreliable source. It means "tough" or "able to endure cold or difficult conditions". I think that settles it.

Hardy is a word both in Polish and English, it means different things. The guy above you Micha is right. I'd know, seeing as I speak both English and Polish fluently.


 * I love Wikipedia. Where else could I learn this, free? My old grandfather used to say, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't get him to settle an argument."   Banacek 13:52, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Twardy simply means hard. End of story whoever put the translation on the page does not speak Polish and I have no clue what source he is using. Gunter viezenz (talk) 17:38, 18 September 2008 (UTC) Gunter from Silesia.

Twardy/Hardy
I can't tell from the article whether Hardy is a Polish nickname for the PT-91M version of the tank, or the English word hardy, meaning resilient, used as a translation of Twardy. —Michael Z. 2006-08-04 14:55 Z 


 * Hardy is no an English word - see above. Damian


 * "Hardy" is a common English word. It is used, for example, to describe plants that are hard to kill. My American Heritage Dictionary says: "1. Stalwart and rugged; strong. 2. Courageous; intrepid. 3. Brazenly daring; audacious. 4. Capable of surviving unfavorable conditions such as cold weather or lack of moisture. Used esp. of cultivated plants. [ME < OFr. hardi < hardir, to harden, of Germanic orig.]" It even has a noun form, "hardiness".


 * Of course, I have a vested interest in the matter, as I am an American of Polish descent, and this is my last name. I do not speak Polish, but I rather prefer "hardy", because used to describe a person, "hard" can have many negative connotations like "stern", "harsh", "difficult". crt 22:36, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

What a Goryl
Can somebody translate it? And include it? Trekphiler 13:46, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. 156.17.232.48 21:12, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Malaysia
The article says, that the tanks ordered by Malaysia are ordinary PT-91, but AFAIK they get an improved version called the PT-91M. But I don't know, what kind of improvements these ones have.


 * Check details in article. Corran.pl 08:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Armour
It says in the infobox that the armour is [secret], but in the main picture, it looks as though it employs some kind of reactive armour, at least on the turret. Or is it something else? κаллэмакс 10:22, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The new production tanks (including vehicles for Malysia) have changes in the turrer armor (and detalied info about that is secret), all PT-91 also have Erawa Reactive Armour (check article for details). Corran.pl 08:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Newly-built or refurbished
It's not completely clear whether the PT-91 is a newly-built, modernized version of the T-72 design, or a refurbishment or rebuilding program being applied to old tanks in service. —Michael Z. 2006-02-20 02:03 Z 


 * It is clearly know that some tanks are rebuilded T-72 (produced in late 80s) and some are new production vehicles. Corran.pl 08:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Well it is not clearly known from reading this article at all, which ambiguously says things like “an extensive modernization of the T-72M1,” “the modernized main battle tank.” This is a critical fact about the nature of the article's subject, and should be obvious from the intro.  Would someone familiar with the subject please correct this? —Michael Z. 2009-02-13 16:45 z 


 * It doesn't metter if tank is new or not, the base armor of PT-91 and T-72M1 is the same, and all major elements were changed. You can tell no diference beetwen new build or ugraded PT-91. --Corran.pl (talk) 18:16, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I've made the distinction in the opening paragraph and provided the model names for the refurbished vehicles. Seems the Polish army cares enough to distinguish them. 135.23.155.250 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:17, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

SESM/Renk
Why did you replace SESM by Renk? The powerpack is 100% a French development from SESM which is a subsidiary of Renk. But there is not any Renk Techonology in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.6.64.10 (talk) 06:56, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * In Polish sources it is refered as Renk, In the name S-1000R, the R stands for Renk (to difer it from S-1000 with polish transmision). If you can provaide any source I will be glad to change it. Do you think that writing SESM/Renk will be ok? --Corran.pl (talk) 11:46, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! SESM/RENK is OK. You removed also the fact that the MID-M, PMC-Leguan, and WZT-4 (Malaysian project) are also equipped with the same powerpack. These are the only T-72 engineering derivates in the world equipped with a powerpack like on modern western vehicles. So perhaps it should be good to precise it. I let you modify the article accordingly. Dufour.sesm (talk) 20:54, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * In MID-M, PMC-Leguan, and WZT-4 descriptions there are statements that all those vehicles are PT-91M based - it think that makes it clear that those vehicles are equipped with same propulsion. --Corran.pl (talk) 10:31, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

B-class review
This article is currently at start/C class, but could be improved to B-class if it had more (inline) citations.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk to me 00:13, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

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clarification needed
Any battle history? Article implies that Pol is getting rid of old and expensive tanks, and who will end up with bad tanks is Ukraine, why delay the delivery of Leopard 2s so much?? Fritzz4321 (talk) 16:06, 27 July 2022 (UTC)